| Author | Message | ||
| Wooliee Registered user Username: Wooliee Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2005 |
I was reading about the National Sunday Law at ellenwhite.org. Are there biblical references that Adventists use to support the Sunday Law being the Mark of the Beast? I think I have heard Daniel 7:25 used in reference to this, but is there more? Thank you for your help! Julie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2196 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dear Julie, I know of NO Biblical reference that supports the idea that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. That is pure Great Controversy. Most Christians believe the mark will actually be something physicalóbut of course, no one actually knows for sure. Think of all the Muslims (to say nothing of Hindus, etc.) who would have to accept Sunday worship in order to fulfill Ellen's scenario. No, if the Holy Spirit, not the Sabbath is the seal of God on His people, then the counterfeit mark must be something other than a "day". It seems Adventists are the most concerned about the significance of a DAY. I believe the antichrist power will be able to devise something more universal than a day to be its mark on the unbelieving. After all, if the reality that makes Christians hated is their personal relationship with Jesus and their intimate connection with God through the Holy Spiri't indwelling, then the issue for unbelievers will also be an issue of loyalty to an evil power. People will not be putting their lives on the line for the sake of a day. They will be putting themsleves on the line for the sake the Person or person to whom they are loyal. Colleen | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 158 Registered: 6-2001  |
The verse I have heard used the most to promote the Sunday worship is the one in Revelation (yikes im at work again so I can't reference it) where it refers to the saints being "those who keep the commandments of God and have the spirit of prophecy." Of course Adventists say "commandments of God" = "keeping the Sabbath" and "spirit of prophecy" = (of course) "Ellen White." Following this line of reasoning, the Sunday law won't necessarily require you to go to church on Sunday but require you to work on Saturday. (this is all from past discussions with my former adventist husband) He actually said he believed I would turn him in to the authorities to be killed during the Tribulation if I remained a Sunday keeper. He also said Jews would have some sort of exemption to get out of working on the Sabbath but SDAs wouldn't. Push that persecution complex up a notch why don't ya! When he realized how far-fetched he was beginning to sound, he stole a page from my book and said he didn't know the specifics of how it would all happen just the generalities of it. Now he has to bottle up his laughter when his family passes on the latest conspiracy theory about how the Senate is drafting some blue laws bill that will be discussed in secret and voted on in secret or that guillotines are hidden in Georgia etc. The whole idea would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Logically, Hannah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2203 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hannah, I love your picture! Thanks for sharing it. Thanks for sharing the Sunday-law conversations you used to have with your husband. You're right--if it weren't so dead serious, the humor in the situation would be irresistable! Richard's family asked him once if he was now going to shoot them during the Time of Trouble. Unbelievable. Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 259 Registered: 7-2004  |
Revelation 14:12 is where it says "Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God...", and that is the final text that is supposed to clinch the support for that thinking. Actually, SDA's use Revelation 14 starting with verse 6 to "prove" the Sunday Law = Mark of the Beast. That's where it talks about the 3 angels, and the second angel says to "worship Him who made the heaven and the earth...". SDA's interpret that to mean if you're not worshipping God on the 7th day Sabbath, then you can't be worshipping Him as Creator. If you accept that logic, then the next step is to infer that if true worship means worshipping the Creator God (evidenced by 7th day Sabbath observance), then the mark of the beast must be the exact opposite--Sunday worship. They also tie this in with Revelation 13:8 that says the number of the beast is 666. Because the pope's title calculates to 666 (so does Nero and EGW!) and SDA's believe the Catholic church's claim that they changed Sabbath to Sunday, then it fits. So, Colleen is correct that there is no Biblical support for Sunday Law = Mark of the Beast, but that is the hoops SDA's jump through to prove it from Scripture. Of course that logic perfectly matches EGW's description in The Great Controversy book. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2206 Registered: 12-2003 |
Raven, thank you for explaining that. I admit the whole thing always seemed so ambiguous to me that I never really learned that reasoning--although I definitely heard it enough! Whew! What a relief to walk into the freedom of the gospel of Jesus!! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 587 Registered: 1-2003 |
I had a co-worker (non-SDA) go to an SDA doctor yesterday and came back to work very puzzled. It seems during her exam the she told the doctor she was going to visit Africa...somehow the doctor got off on a tanget about the Pope's and the Malachy prophecies...and how there will only be two more popes and then Jesus comes. My poor co-worker was very confused and came to talk with me (as a former SDA) about what all this means. Obviously scared. My thought is...why was this doctor missing a great witnessing oportunity for Christ by not telling her the Gospel, but instead scaring her to death about the Mark of the Beast. Seems really inappropriate to me. I looked up the Malachy prophecies and while they are interesting, they probably have become self-fulfilling...Like this Pope is predicted to be a Beneditine...so the Cardinals go pick a benedictine...know what I mean? It's all a bunch of stuff to keep your focus off Jesus, in my opinion. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2210 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Pheeki. Interesting that this doc's focus is on extra-biblical sources--not surprising. Once you accept one, how would you know which ones not to accept? Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 798 Registered: 10-2004  |
They can't share the Gospel when they themselves don't know it... BTW, why would an SDA believe a Catholic prophet (St. Malachy)??! Jeremy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 588 Registered: 1-2003 |
That's what I'm screamin', Jeremy! But they believe their claims about changing the day of worship, etc. So why not? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 590 Registered: 1-2003 |
Speaking of weird. Has anyone actually looked into Scientology...it's in the news so much these days...anyway...if you go to their websites, it's all about purifying your mind. They have spas, etc. And in the corner it talks about having fears of current events, etc. They also believe in aliens, etc. Seems to me a lot of cults try to pull people in with health promises and fear of the future. Scary stuff. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 346 Registered: 7-2000 |
Pheeki, look at the money Scientology takes in. If you want those nasty little 'engrams' removed, you have to pay a church specialist to get those taken out. The more you pay, the better you get! Now you know why so many Scientologists are from the wealthy classes---they're the only ones able to afford this religion....... | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 261 Registered: 7-2004 |
In the CNN story on Tom Cruise's interview, I noticed he said that you can be a Christian and a Scientologist. I've also read the story of a former Scientologist who was deeply involved while Ron Hubbard was alive and was close friends with Ron's son. Instead, it's striking how diametrically opposed the two are. From what I read, it affirms even more strongly for me how freeing and wonderful it is to be a Christian! Scientology (besides taking LOTS of money from their members) requires you to work very hard at eliminating all your bad habits and negative stuff from your life. They basically do this from counseling sessions where you totally bare your soul. Not only that, but they keep intensive detailed records of everything you say in a counseling session, which means all your dirt is kept on file somewhere. It's so great that as a Christian, we don't have to work at anything--just enjoy the connection with the Holy Spirit and let Him do the work in us! And our "sins" are remembered no more! (Message edited by Raven on June 30, 2005) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2223 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true, Raven! We have a direct connection to the Father, and we ARE His children! It's amazing. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1663 Registered: 3-2004  |
Not only do we have a direct connection to the Father and we are His children, but when we confess our sins and all the dirt in our lives, He puts all that in the depths of the sea(and there are places where the bottom cannot be found!!) We become white as snow. That is so amazing and so awesome. Diana |
