| Author | Message | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 517 Registered: 3-2005 |
The Pacific Union Recorder, July '05 edition has Sen. Hillary prominently displayed smiling big on the front cover pictured with one of the church's lobbyists for religious freedom. On page 18 she is quoted in context of the following, "One of the highlights of the week was the SDA Religious Liberty Dinner held in the U.S. Senate Caucus Room. Keynote speaker Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, a key supporter of WRFA emphasized the importance of...promoting religious liberty worldwide. She also praised the work of the Church. 'There is no group that has been more focused on the issue of religious liberty than the Seventh-day Adventist Church'" So here are these church lobbyists courting the support of Clinton. I continue to be amazed at how the Religious Liberty department of the Adventist church has no fear of being seen with politicians who support abortion on demand, and extending gay rights, but they recoil in fear of supporting Pres. Bush and other politicians who take a strong stand on abortion and other family values issues. They do this because they are convinced that the Christian Right will bring in the Sunday laws. The Religious Liberty department of the church survives on finding a Sunday law behind every Bush.(pun intended). In the same issue of this Recorder is an editorial by Thomas Mostert expressing great fears that the Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren is secretly bringing the heresy of spiritualism into SDA churches! Now, I know that some of us have expressed concerns about Warren's use of paraphrase Bibles used out of context, but to make the accusation of subtle heresy with regard to spiritualism that his book is bringing into the church seems beyond the pale. I have not read the book that Mostert wrote outlining his concerns about Rick Warren's heresy of spiritualism, but in case someone wants to read it, the book which he calls,"Hidden Heresy: Is Spiritualism invading Adventist churches today?" That book can be read online at www.adventistbookcenter.com Stan | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2005 |
That's right, Stan. It all boils down to fear. I know many Adventists, a few of them pastors, who will not vote for a Republican candidate for major office because of the belief that the Religious Right will be responsible for ushering in the Sunday Law and that most Republicans in Washington are their puppets. These are the same people who are apparently conservative in most other aspects such as abortion, gay marriage, taxes, etc. but fear of the Sunday Law trumps everything else. I'm not saying that everyone needs to go out and vote Republican, just that it's a shame when people succomb to fear and vote against their consciences. On the one hand, in Adventist churches you hear about how Christ is "at the door" and could come any day -- "come Lord Jesus, come" and that it's the "hope that burns within our hearts." Then on the other hand they rabidly and doggedly oppose that which they say needs to occur before Christ can come, to fulfill Ellen White's prophecy, even if that means voting for politicains with views diametrically opposed to theirs. And these are some of the same politicians who you just know cringe at the words "God", "Christians", "Jesus", or "Prayer" unless they need to score political points near elections. Sickening. But if you are truly "in Christ", there is no need to fear. 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." Heretic | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2003  |
I make an appeal ! ! ! Please let's all be careful about painting members of either party with a broad brush and stereotyping them. I know totally commited Christian brothers and sisters amoung both Republicans and Democrats. Voteing for one party or the other because of only one or two issues is dangerous and we have no way of knowing the heart of those on either side or knowing how God is leading them. Having said all this I'm sure that those who don't vote the way I do must be terribly deluded and stupid.  (tongue firmly in cheek) Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1877 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes, Stan, I saw the over of the current Recorder and I read the article you are speeking about. I was totally surprised by the front cover and the courting of Senator Clinton. I grew up in an era of Adventism when entire sermons were spouted off from the front of the church by the preacher about keeping politics and church seperate and that the seperation of church and state was the greatest thing freedom has to offer. I remember sermons about how someday the government would endorse The Pope (i.e., the Catholic Church) and the faithful Sabbath-keepers (i.e. SDA's) would have to flee to the mountains or their very survival. Now they are hob-nobbing with Senator Clinton. I actually was surprised. I guess I should no longer ever be surprised at what the SDA's as a church or as individuals do, I say do because what is done frequently goes contrary to what they say. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 137 Registered: 2-2005 |
Susan, Be rest assured that the separation of church and state is still being loudly trumpeted from SDA pulpits. At the church here in our town, we had AT LEAST one sermon centering on this issue annually on "Religious Liberty Sabbath" and I'm sure this is still the case in many other places, as well. Richard, For the record, I couldn't agree with you more. There are great Christians of all political persuasions. What chaps me is when people of any party vote ONLY based on a groundless fear rather than with their consciences, and I know a few of these folks personally. Too many good men died to give us the right to be free. Heretic | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 521 Registered: 3-2005 |
Here is the direct link for that photo of Hillary Clinton on the cover of the Recorder. www.pacificunionrecorder.com | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 831 Registered: 10-2004  |
Stan, you're right. They would NEVER dare publish a photo on the cover of the Review or Recorder with an SDA leader with President Bush! By the way, I don't ever remember seeing a photo of Hillary where she looked that happy before. Hehe. Regarding the Rick Warren/spiritualism stuff, I don't know what Mostert is referring to, but it seems that SDAs a lot of the time use the term "spiritualism" to simply mean "the belief that you go to be with Jesus when you die"! And they call this Biblical doctrine a "pagan idea." I would say that the belief that you simply go into the ground and cease to exist is what is truly a pagan/atheistic idea! Jeremy | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 348 Registered: 7-2000 |
I make an appeal ! ! ! Please let's all be careful about painting members of either party with a broad brush and stereotyping them. I know totally commited Christian brothers and sisters amoung both Republicans and Democrats. ------------------------------------------------- Well, Richard, I'd sure like to see what leading Democrats there are who are truly Evanglical/Charasmatic. Don't tell me 'Bill Clinton'---whose lifestyle and actions totally repudiate Christianity. Or maybe you're including as 'christian' those who ordain homosexuals, have re-imagining seminars in the sanctuary and seances in the basement? What really got too me is the other comment Richard made: Voteing for one party or the other because of only one or two issues is dangerous and we have no way of knowing the heart of those on either side or knowing how God is leading them. --------------------------------------------- One or two issues? Come on, Richard! Lets do a fast count on just some of the current issues; 1. Abortion on demand---democrats are for it and intend to make it a litmus test for Supreme Court nominees. 2. Removal of any mention of God from the public forum. Consistently, democrats have sided and pushed for this type of legislation. 3. Gay rights---again, the democrats are at the forefront of pushing for this. 4. Sex-Ed, again the democrats want to make sure that our public schools graphically educate on sex of all types, and hand out condoms---while ridiculing abstinence programs. 5. Support for the National Endowment for the Arts. Again, the democrats keep making sure that this is funded, even though some of the most blasphemous exhibits imaginable have been presented by these folks. Even Howard Dean knows which party has the Christians. He came out and said that the Republican party is the party of the Christian right. How any committed Christian could support the Democratic party by money, by prescense at any function, or by vote is just beyond me. The democrats have not stood for anything that is morally right or Biblically defensible in the last 25 years! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 524 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, I suspect Mostert is plagiarizing other non-SDA sources, who have concerns that Rick Warren is bringing New Age concepts into the Christian church. A lot of what is alleged and attributed to Warren is guilt by association. There is a former New Ager(non-SDA) now a Christian who has written a book alleging these things about Warren, but I think the evidence is poor. I don't believe Warren is a New Ager, and his book is not heretical. I think Mostert is on dangerous ground accusing Warren of heresy. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 832 Registered: 10-2004 |
But Ellen said that Christendom would accept "spiritualism," so it must be happening! That type of thinking is probably what causes people like Mostert to just jump on something like this. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on July 11, 2005) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 525 Registered: 3-2005 |
By the way Jeremy, It is great to have you back! I hope your mom is doing well, and our prayers continue for you and yours. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 833 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks Stan, it's good to be back. My mom was able to come home from the hospital yesterday. Thank you everyone for your prayers. Jeremy | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 204 Registered: 1-2003 |
Loneviking, thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns. I appreciate receiving your input. Richard rtruitt@mac.com PS: What name do you want to be called? first name? Loneviking? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2280 Registered: 12-2003  |
Loneviking, I do personally know a politically liberal person who is truly born again and a great example of a person who lives by the Spirit. This person is not personally in favor of abortion, etc., but he/she does have a big problem with the deep compromises of conservatives who are enmeshed in big business connections and monetary motivations behind some of their politics. While I do not see eye-to-eye with this person politically, I do have great admiration for this person's personal surrender to Jesus and commitment to growing and living for Jesus by the Spirit. As far as the highly placed politicians, however--I agree that the liberal activists are probably not driven by truly Spiritual compunctions. I also tend to suspect, however, that many deeply entrenched conservatives are often driven by political agendas as well instead of by true morality--I say this even though I more closely resonate with them than with the liberal side. God is sovereign over leaders and authorities; we are commanded to pray for them that we might live in peace. Colleen | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 349 Registered: 7-2000 |
Bill is fine........... BTW--are you headed for the Redwoods? Check the board for last name of 'Scott'. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 205 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes I'm headed to the Redwoods, leaving in 11 days and will be gone for about 2 weeks. I will visit my "office" at Starbucks and check in here every day or two. I received an email from one member here. I'll be contacting him and hopefully meet with him on my travels north. I expect to be back in time to meet Diane and her sister when they visit. I hope everything falls into place. This next weekend I'll be attending a conference close to the church Colleen and Richard attend and then next week I have a play to attend my wife and a friend wrote on Miriam. A very varied few weeks. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 478 Registered: 6-2004 |
In my short stay with the SDA (1985-86), I don't recall them ever endorsing a politician. Of course, I was at a small church that didn't really emphasis much on the real world. The only political statement I remember was the pastor's concern over Pat Robertson when he declared his candidacy for the President back in 1986. As mentioned above in a previous post, he feared the Sunday observances being ushered into law by Robertson. What seemed to be a concern at the time, only proved to be ridiculous. Proof of how scare tactics are the SDA's best weapon. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 559 Registered: 3-2005 |
I have to get my political plug in here tonight, as President Bush deserves our support and praise for nominating a true conservative pro-life judge to the supreme court. John Roberts is on record as opposing Roe vs Wade. Let's pray that Lord willing (as He is sovereign) that this judge is confirmed. Already, the pro-abortion foes are lining up to oppose this choice. Stan | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hey Stan, I appreciate the Po. plug. Yes many pro-abortion people and other opponents are angered. Judge Roberts is religious-Catholic, so he is suspect. According to President Bush's opponents, having John Roberts, a decent, God-fearing man, on the Bench is the worst thing that could happen to America. I have already heard comments like; John Roberts would cause the reversal of Roe v.Wade, support laws to destroy the enviroment etc., etc. The spoken or (perhaps)quiet dread and fears of a godly Catholic person in government among certain people, who shall remain Nameless, would not surprise me. Might this judge usher in the end of time by introducing the National Sunday Law!!?? Ooops! I loved seeing the President and hearing him introduce Judge Roberts last night. Yes, God is Sovereign, I am praying His will be done. May the Lord give us a just judge and not an Actor(activist). One nation UNDER GOD! I heard Vernon Mc Gee say, and I agree, the reason this country worked so well for so long is because it was originally put together by men who, although some of them were not Christians, had a respect and reverence for the Bible. They felt that the great principles stated in the Bible were worth following and wove them into the working of our government. However, it will never work in the hands of godless men. I pray God's will be done. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1734 Registered: 3-2004  |
Stan, I am glad you put in the plug for Judge Roberts. I think us formers have learned that being a Catholic is not the end of the world for the world. Thank God for all I have learned, through the Holy Spirit, in the past year and 1/2. God is surely awesome. Diana |
