| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 589 Registered: 7-2004 |
Have any of the rest of you been following the posts on the Spectrum website? I just finished reading all of the posts on http://www.spectrummagazine.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=19&sid=ab0904b89af33f2fd2e62444e857d30d and found myself both confused by what some of the people had to say, and intensely saddened by what they had posted. The heading on the thread is "Why are you a Seventh-day Adventist?" The author of the thread has asked people to list three reasons. I've always thought of myself as a clear thinker, but I recognized myself in some of the convoluted statements that are made there, and it is downright frightening. Was I that duped? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1751 Registered: 3-2004  |
I think we were all that duped. When I read it, I saw nothing about Jesus and His love for us. Diana | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 703 Registered: 7-2000 |
That is really sad! Did you catch that bit about half the people the person knew in academy are no longer Adventist, and attend no church?! | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 704 Registered: 7-2000 |
well, okay, actually the fact that they are no longer Adventist is a very good thing......but to attend no church. That just makes my heart very sad. | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2005 |
Before my mother died (she had converted from Catholism to SDA) she said "It looks like we have been duped again."I agreed. I have two sisters in law who are staunch SDA's-and I was wondering about them, but they never paid any attention at all to Daniel and Revelation, they believed in the Sabbath but didn't worry too much about keeping it and they read their Bibles faithfully and I think of them as loving Christians. They accept Jesus as their Savior, I don't think they care about IJ or anything like that--if you try to discuss anything they don't even want to think about it. and certainly not discuss it. Their parents raised them SDA and there they stay, let the world swirl about them. Theirs is their own brand but they wouldn't change, and maybe don't need to. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1752 Registered: 3-2004 |
Benevento, That is what I did with my son. I did not teach him conventional adventism. He was taught to question and learn for himself. Although he is still listed as adventist, he does not believe everything. He is looking for a Christian church that has a good childrens program as well as a good adult program. Since being transferred to Little Rock with the USAF he has attended an SDA church. He told me, what he told his wife, that the adventism I taught him is NOT what the adventist church teaches and then he thanked me for teaching him the way I did. I wanted him to love Jesus and rely of him without the fear that I had. I am positive that God was telling me what to do in raising my son. He also arranged for me to take my son out of SDA schools. A BIG thank you for that. Thank you God for telling me how to raise my son. You are so awesome. Diana | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 718 Registered: 7-2000 |
I sometimes wonder why so many in Adventism don't really even question the absolutely wrong, denial-of the-supremacy of Jesus Christ doctrines. I suppose the comfort of the social network and underlying spiritual deception that is at the root of Adventism keeps many from resting in the real "Truth"--Jesus--His birth, life, death, and resurrection as the fulfillment of all the hopes and promises of the Old Covenant. It certainly is much easier to stay if you have a lot of friends & family within your cultural system and never have to actually TEACH/CONVERT someone to the idea of Ellen White, Sabbath holiness, clean/unclean, Investigative Judgement, etc., etc, ad nauseum.... May we continue to have that courage and humble boldness of the disciples/apostles, that those who know us will see that we have been with Jesus (Acts. 4:13). grace always, cindy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1754 Registered: 3-2004 |
I think a big part of the reason the SDAs stay in the church is that they are taught that if they quit keeping the sabbath, their salvation is lost. They will not go to heaven. No one wants to lose their salvation. At least that is the way it was for me for a long time. Thank you God for teaching me the truth. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 590 Registered: 7-2004 |
This is such a sad confession: "I have been a member of the SDA church for a loooong time and it feels comfortable. In fact, some of my best friends are Adventists, (not to mention family). However, after Glacier View I, I lost any confidence or respect I had for the formal church, and Glacier View II reaffirmed my feellings. The theology is a mess. "After much agony at first, and revelation, my spiritual journey leads me on." That confession was listed by a current member of the SDA Church as the reason why they remain a SDA. What an empty existence that must be. I love my SDA family and friends, but I am not willing to sacrifice eternity to keep their boat from rocking. In fact, I'm willing to rock their boat so they will be willing to look and see that it is leaking like a sieve. We need to pray about our witness to these people, and ask God to give us the words and information that will open up eyes and hearts to the real saving truth found in Jesus only. These people have been disillusioned, and spiritually poisoned to the point where they are almost too sick to see the truth that can heal them. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 591 Registered: 7-2004 |
Good news, I messaged the person above with a study guide, and the response I received was that they had stumbled across the information that Ellen had embellished by participating in a non-denominational bible study group. Once again we have the opportunity to participate with SDAs, and this time they seem willing to learn, and even to take some of the information back to their friends and families. I'm excited that God is willing to use us to open up avenues of opportunity. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 601 Registered: 3-2005 |
The Spectrum forum is really picking up steam after a very slow start, but thanks to many of you the discussions are becoming quite lively. Even the EGW thread has had a little more action. I agree with Belva, that some of these folks might be more receptive than the R/S crowd. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 609 Registered: 3-2005 |
Wow! Some of the posts on the Spectrum discussion forum are really becoming unbelievable. There seem to be a couple of real skeptics coming on and posting sarcastic messages making fun of the Bible etc. To repost the main discussion board topics as www.spectrummagazine.org/phpbb click on the "Why I remain an Adventist thread" and especially look at page 3. There are several threads with interesting discussions including the EGW thread and the Philip Jenkins thread. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 617 Registered: 3-2005 |
I am enjoying a little debate with David R. Larson, the pastor who performed our wedding ceremony almost 25 years ago, over liberalism, EGW, inspiration of scripture, and open theism (which denies that God allows himself to know the future). I respect Pastor Larson for his couteous answers, but it is so clear that the liberals (and Larson proudly admits he is one and believes open theism the way Richard Rice does) are on a completely different wavelength than conservative evangelicals. They will not identify in anyway with the fact that Christ shed his blood as a payment for our sins. I tried to ask him several questions about hell, and the fact that Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven, but he so far will not reply on that topic. But what kind of justice would allow the most heinous criminals to go unpunished? But that is what Dan Smith, Graham Maxwell, David Larson and these SoCal liberals believe. I told Larson, that I sat all through Medical School in Provonsha's Bible classes, and not once did I hear the simple gospel. But I guess I wouldn't hear it if they don't believe in it. This discussion takes place on the EGW thread. Jeremy is doing some good posting over there coming up as usual with his great quotes from Desre of Ages, and Testimonies. On the "Why I remain an SDA" thread, there continues some of the most vicious and atheistic attacks on the Bible, and creationism. One guy has just linked to an anti Genesis website which ridicules all creationists and uses Darwin inside the fish symbol. And one guest who calls himself "peace" has taken a vicious attack ridiculing our own Diana. I actually showed Diana this quote over there when she visited us at our FAF Bible study, and we actually had a good laugh, and of course Diana added him to her prayer list, as this guy taunted Diana over her prayer list. At least, the Spectrum folks are allowing everyone to come on, and there is no censorship yet. This is a distinct difference from the Revival Sermons where you could not even mention Ellen White like you can there. Stan | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 994 Registered: 7-2003  |
You guys have something I don't...tough skin. I take everything so personally, I just get sick to my stomach reading their remarks. I wonder in all of the exchange if anything of benefit ever really gets out or if it's just a bunch of position playing. When I read the ridicule of Diana's prayer list, my heart broke for her and I was so shocked that someone would say such things to someone who is so genuinely concerned for others. I read it occasionally, but it usualy makes my head spin. Hats off to those who can do that. I pray God uses your words to make a difference. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1761 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi Folks, I'm Back. I have not been to the Spectrum site, yet. But when people got nasty with me on the R/S site, Thank God, I did not take it personally. To me, who ever is saying those things, is resisting God and I do not mean me. The people who resist are resisting God and all I can do is pray for them. It is not me they hate or dislike, it is God. So, If I take a few darts for Him, as that is what they are, I am happy to do so. He did so much for me and I cannot began to repay Him. Our God is so Awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 595 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thank you for being faithful and praying, Diana. It is folks like you who are paying attention to the words of Jesus. When people get that vindictive there is little else we can do than pray. I will admit, though, that when people get ugly with me it is very hard to continue to pray for them--that is my humanity showing. Does anyone on here understand who or what the Jesus Seminar is? It has been mentioned on the Spectrum site, and as most of you know, I faithfully listen to the programs of Dr. Gene Scott, and he mentions them as well. It is clear that Dr. Scott doesn't have any respect for them. The picture he seems to paint of them is that they prefer to rob the gospel of the forensic value of the blood sacrifice of Jesus, and Jesus made it clear when he set his face to go to Jerusalem just before his arrest that "for this cause I came." The person on Spectrum who is so enamoured of the Jesus Seminar appears to have abandoned all faith in Jesus for a "modern" way of life, and has chosen not to pay any attention to the lessons learned by the ancients. It seems to be a sign of the times that people will believe anything other than the fact that Jesus bled and died in order to provide an avenue of escape from death for mankind. I personally am so glad that Jesus was willing to lay his life down for me. It was unbelievably hard to type that last sentence, but if I am going to be able to claim the salvational effect of the blood of Jesus, then I have to admit that I had a part in making him bleed. Without his wounds, I have no hope, and the bible from beginning to end makes it clear that life resides in the blood, and my life resides in the blood of Jesus Christ. If he had not spilled his blood, I would have no hope. Anyway, I'm on my way now to Google to look for Jesus Seminar information, but somehow I get the impression that I will become angry about their attitude and will chuck the research. I'm so glad I don't have to give every whim in the world equal opportunity to take up my time and attention. Belva | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 995 Registered: 7-2003 |
I'm sure you've already found a boat load of stuff, but equip.org probably has some good stuff. It is a heretical movement, but I am not that familiar with it personally. This is a quote from an article on equip.org. It says enough to me. "According to the Jesus Seminar, Jesus is said to be the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier, while the story of His Virgin Birth was a cover-up; He wasnít born in Bethlehem; the betrayal of Jesus was a fabrication concocted by Christians as an anti-Semitic slur; His dead body was not buried but left on the cross and then eaten by birds and prowling dogs; and His resurrection is a story borrowed from the literature of Eastern pagan cults called mystery religions. ..." | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 596 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks, Melissa. What I did find is how they come to their conclusions--they vote. A bunch of "scholarly" types get together at set times, write reports and vote on the authenticity of what they have written. The make the assumption that there was one gospel record written (Mark's gospel) and that Matthew and Luke copied and expanded based on Mark's gospel. They seem to have another book called "The Acts of Jesus." I've only just started searching but found enough mal-information to make me take a step backwards. Meanwhile they will say that there is only about 16% of truth in the biblical record. They begin with a jaded view and then get all "scholarly" about things. I love education, and yet I hate some scholars because they seem to think that because they think something it makes all other thinking wrong. The information you supplied was not mentioned anywhere in what I have found so far, so I truly appreciate your bringing that to my attention. I had heard of that heretical theory a few years ago but was not aware of the group that had put it forward. Thanks. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2004 |
One more thing -- I have on my TiVo right now a sermon by Dr. Scott that was based on his doctoral thesis. While a student at Stanford, Gene Scott had come under the influence of the "learned" ones who found all religion laughable. Before slipping off the other side of things, though (Gene's dad was a minister in the Church of Christ), he decided to take one last look at the crucifiction story. He determined to prove the resurrection because he felt that if he could prove that one "fact" he would prove the whole of the biblical story. He then proceeded, in a scholarly fashion, to research the early Christian church, and in particular the disciples. What he found was a group of men who each had their foibles. For instance, prior to the crucifiction Peter was a weasel who tried to bluster his way through life. After the crucifiction, Peter was a completely changed man, humbled, but certain about what he believed to be the events that occurred three days after Jesus died. Gene looked at all sorts of conspiracy theories, and which groups would have put the conspiracy together, whether it was the disciples, the Jewish leaders, the Romans ... after weighing all of the issues, and the records left behind by extra-biblical writers like Josephus and others, he finally came to the conclusion that there could be no other answer but that Jesus did something that had never been done in history, he walked out of the grave in an immortal body. The final group that was put under the microscope regarding their conspiracy was the disciples, and then he traced each of them to their final end. Are you aware that every one of them, except for John, met a martyr's death all alone. A conspiracy falls apart when you separate the members, but the truth does not. The fact that each of these men was changed at the point of the crucifiction, and that they each went forward from that point to an ultimate lonely and awful death without a moments quiver or change of story was all he needed to proved that the only answer that could be was that Jesus arose victorious over the grave. That makes more sense to me than any story pulled together by a group of so-called scholars who get together every year or so and vote on each other's scholarly papers. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 626 Registered: 3-2005 |
The liberal SDA mindset is so hard to deal with. That Spectrum site has become a haven for atheists and skeptics. I am finished with my dialogue with a prototype of what a liberal Adventist is, but it was sure interesting, and reaffirmed what I already thought. There are two different gospels represented. The SDA liberals do not believe Christ died for our sins. They don't believe in God's sovereignty, they believe in man's sovereignty. They are Universalists, and don't believe in any kind of punishment for the wicked. Belva, the Jesus seminar is very popular with the liberals on that site. It is interesting that you mention this group. Peter Jennings just died yesterday. If you remember, he did a special series entitled the search for the historical Jesus. He only used these liberal so-called scholars, and did not use anyone representative of conservative groups. So this leader of the Jesus seminar Crossan comes on at the end of the show with Peter Jennings, and proceeds to undermine the reality of the resurrection, and everything else we believe. Let's just hope that Peter Jennings had an opportunity to know the real Jesus before he died. Stan |
