| Author | Message | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 122 Registered: 3-2005 |
My husband and I recently had the opportunity to sit down with the Centerville, OH SDA church's pastor and discuss some of the reasons why we left the SDA church. Early on in the conversation, he stated that the church does not hold Ellen White's writings as the spirit of prophecy. We told him that we believed they do, but couldn't quote anything specific to support this idea. I know there are very large 'elephant in the room' ideas, but is there something specific that I could send him regarding this? Also, he believes that the church has never used Ellen White as a "test of fellowship". That is the reason the SOP discussion came up as it is in the baptismal vows. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much! Patria | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 299 Registered: 7-2004  |
Are you in Centerville? Do we know each other? We were at Centerville from early '95 to mid '97, in Wilmington until '01, and Miamisburg until last year. rickbarker@fuse.net As far as EGW being the SOP, this was a discussion on CARM several months ago. http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=121&topic_id=43883&mesg_id=44368&page=6 Some of the evidence I pointed out: Take for instance this statement by the SDA church, "A Statement of Confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy" http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/statements/main_stat24.html It is quite apparent that the statement of confidence is regarding the prophet gift of Ellen White. Even the choice of capitilization with SDA use of Spirit of Prophecy indicates a specific reference. What do you anticipate the subject of the Spirit of Prophecy Association is entirely about? http://egw-sdaresearch.ncu.edu.jm/spiritof_prophecy.asp Would you care to venture any opinion about the specific author of the counsels refered to in the statement, Eighty students were present for the opening. W. H. Littlejohn, who had shown his loyalty to the church and to the Spirit of Prophecy counsels, had been chosen president. He served for two years. {3BIO 232.3} Perhaps you would like to discuss this use of the term relating to instruction given regarding the establishment of Loma Linda. "(2) In order that this medical school may meet the mind of the Lord in doing the work appointed for it by the Spirit of Prophecy, we invite the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, the Lake, Northern, Central, Southwestern, and North Pacific Union Conferences, and the Southern California Conference, to unite with the Pacific Union Conference in establishing and suitably equipping and maintaining this school. {LLM 19.1} Here is another clear statements showing the interchangeable use of Spirit of Prophecy with EGW's writing. Alluding to the use of that which had been given to the church by the Spirit of Prophecy, he said he never attempted to establish doctrine from the testimonies. {4BIO 68.1} The testimonies have not been given to establish new doctrine. The doctrine is established by the Word of God, and the Spirit of Prophecy comes in to bring out the light, revealing new beauties in it, and bringing out here and there details which help in the understanding of the Word of God. . . . {4BIO 68.2} {4BIO 68.3} Yes. Some of our old brethren know that in the East and New England it is a great place for battles over the testimonies. . . . I happened to be born in the East, and embraced the truth there, and so have battled in this line a good deal. Nothing pleased me more than to get those who opposed the visions together and have a Bible reading on the testimonies. And before we began we always made this statement: that if they could find any line in the testimonies that pertained to a doctrine that I could not establish from the Bible, I would give up the testimonies. And second, If they could ever find a line in the testimonies giving a prophecy or prediction which should be fulfilled, and which had not been fulfilled, I would give up the testimonies. There I will stand today. So I believe the testimonies.--GCB 1893, p. 233. {4BIO 68.4} Thus while Ellen White was helping to pioneer the work in Australasia, battling what seemed to be almost insurmountable difficulties, stalwart leaders at the home base of the church functioned as if she were in their presence, and benefited from her pen. {4BIO 68.5} Chap. 34 - Circulating the Spirit of Prophecy Books Light to Be Given to the World.--Sister White is not the originator of these books. They contain the instruction that during her lifework God has been giving her. They contain the precious, comforting light that God has graciously given His servant to be given to the world. From their pages this light is to shine into the hearts of men and women, leading them to the Saviour. The Lord has declared that these books are to be scattered throughout the world. There is in them truth which to the receiver is a savor of life unto life. They are silent witnesses for God. In the past they have been the means in His hands of convicting and converting many souls. Many have read them with eager expectation, and, by reading them, have been led to see the efficacy of Christ's atonement, and to trust in its power. They have been led to commit the keeping of their souls to their Creator, waiting and hoping for the coming of the Saviour to take His loved ones to their eternal home. In the future, these books are to make the gospel plain to many others, revealing to them the way of salvation.--CM 125. {PM 354.1} There are many additional examples provided in the CARM thread linked (or if you have problems accessing or navigating CARM I can provide more). The bottom line is that EGWs writings and SOP are used interchangeably by SDA, SOP is never used to refer to anything except EGW. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 127 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Ric: I'm still reading through your post, but wanted to quickly say no, unfortunately we don't know each other. We were there visiting some dear friends who go to the Centerville Church. We were involved in their baby's dedication and told them up front about our conversion out of Adventism. They had SO many questions. We stayed up until the wee hours of the morning talking about it! Praise God! It was at their request that the pastor agreed to dialogue with us so they could just glean information while he talked with us. Anyway: THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! This is exactly what I needed. I will be using it. Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 128 Registered: 3-2005 |
(That is: we were up front with our friends ABOUT the fact that we're no longer SDA. We didn't shout it from the pulpit...though I was tempted!)  The sermon was about the 144,000. (sigh) Patria | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hmmmm! Wonder why SDA's are so quick to quote Rev. 19:10 and in reality brag that they are the remnant because they have "the Spirit of Prophesy? If not through Ellen who would be the mystery person? The now 28 fundamental beliefs contain vows about the role of Ellen. These vows are taken at the time of Baptism. How can anyone remain in an organization and not stay true to vows that they took? I sure couldn't. I too was told I could remain an Adventist and not believe in Ellen. No thank you. Walter Rae had his credentials taken away because he didn't believe in her. I wonder if he was disfellowshipped? . | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 129 Registered: 3-2005 |
Good points Bobalou! If EGW isn't the SOP as they claim, then they really don't have what they claim to in her writings/visions, etc. Really good point! Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2005 |
Ric_b: I can't believe we missed your kick-off meeting by one teeny tiny little week!!! We would have been there with bells on (all the way from Denver). I trust it was wonderful. God bless you and Raven as you begin the Bible Study. Patria | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 682 Registered: 3-2005 |
I didn't want to start a new thread for this. But I had the opportunity tonight to be listening to KKLA radio in LA. There was a call-in program about evangelical prison ministries. One former prisoner was talking about how difficult it is to get the true gospel in the prison as there are so many cultic groups that get in and try to steal away any possible sheep. He mentioned Mormons, J.W.,Word-Faith teachers such as Benny Hinn and all of their ilk. And he also mentioned SDAs. I was able to call in and press the issues further, as the hosts of the program thought that SDAs were not in the same category as Mormons etc. But this former prisoner insisted that SDas were very aggressive at getting in and preaching the law and their unique doctrines. I was able to put in a plug for this web site on the air and they seemed quite receptive. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2439 Registered: 12-2003  |
Stan, who is the host of the program you heard? And is KKLA 107.9 or 99.5 FM? (I always get them confused!) Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 405 Registered: 5-2002 |
KKLA is 99.5 FM. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 683 Registered: 3-2005 |
Yes, it was KKLA 99.5 on the program Living by the Word hosted by a panel, but you may recognize the name of Craig Hawkins. He used to be the substitute host for Dr Walter Martin on the real Bible Answer man show. And for a long time he has been in general support of SDAs being not a cult. But last night was very interesting. They had an ex-prisoner who now works in the prisons and is associated with Calvary Chapel Downey, who went out of his way to lump in SDAs with all the other cults, so I siezed the opportunity while sitting outside playing with my big poodle last night to call and ask the guest to clarify if he meant that SDAs were a cult just like the others he mentioned. Well, one of the hosts did not want to put this prison minister on the spot, so he had Craig Hawkins answer the question first. For the first time I heard him express some very genuine concerns about the direction of the SDA church, and especially Doug Batchelor. And he feels that all those that believe in the I.J. and EGW's authority over scripture, and those who believe the phony date of 1844 as when Christ entered the Holiest, then he believes these people are cultic. And he said liberalism is gaining more of a hold as well and he believes the evangelical sector is shrinking. But then, I directed the question back to the prison minister and asked him his opinion. He said that the SDAs get very aggressive and come in pushing their law and Sabbath trip. Its interesting because the implication was that even prisoners who were young in the faith could recognize that something was wrong with the gospel of SDAs! So, anyway, I thought it was an interesting exchange, and I gave out the web address of this site on the air. Stan | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1007 Registered: 7-2003  |
Stan, Did you get to offer your opinion on that question? | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 685 Registered: 3-2005 |
Yes, Melissa and the prison minister agreed with me, and the other hosts are starting to see the problems with SDA. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2442 Registered: 12-2003 |
That's great, Stan. I know I've been troubled by the fact that KKLA runs the Voice of Prophecy in the evenings around 9:30. I often hear it when I drive home from women's Bible study on Monday nights. One night last fall, following a great study in one of Paul's prison epistles, I was nearly home when Lonnie Melashanko read a quote from the Clear Word to illustrate his point. Yes, I was pretty steamed up when I got home! I have wondered whether or not KKLA really knows what VOP is--although they must know it's Adventist. I'm pretty convinced,however, that they haven't understood the true nature of the church. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2443 Registered: 12-2003 |
Slightly unrelated but no less interesting, I have heard that Modesto Adventist Academy in Modesto, California, has changed its name to Central Valley Christian School. I find this change interesting for a couple of reasons. I remember in the 90s (also the 80s??), many SDA schools began flaunting their Adventism. My high school alma mater, for example, changed from Portland Union Academy to Portland Adventist Acadmy. Southern College added Adventist to its name, as did many other schools from elementary to college level. Now, with the move toward "evangelicalsim" and the resulting efforts to blend in a share a piece of the Christian "action", so to speak, institutions are moving toward deleting "Adventist" from their names and sounding nondemoninational. More confusion and deception. But God knows... Colleen | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2004 |
Colleen, My experience in Adventist education is that many people like the structure (even though there is precious little) the curriculum, and the music. Unfortunately they are educating kids to be adventist. There is a school here in Montana that had no Adventist in it, but they ran it as an evangelistic effort. In fact the Ed. supt. used to call these students "future adventist". Deception, deception, deception. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 686 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen, KKLA is a commercial radio station owned by Salem communications. They own secular conservative talk stations such as KRLA in LA, and they put on Roy Masters at night. So it's not surprising that they will take SDA money. If there is not enough Christian programming, they put on all kinds of infomercials advertising a lot of questionable stuff. But they do put on my favorite show The White Horse Inn, so they get credit for that. Stan | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 243 Registered: 1-2003  |
Colleen I attended Modesto Union Academy for the last semister of my senior year when my parents returned from Thailand as missionaries. They then changed the name to Modesto Adventist Academy and when I went up to visit my parents a few weeks ago i noticed the name change as you mentioned to Central Valley Christian School. My prayer is that it is Christian and not Adventist. I asked my dad about that and my concern that many Adventist schools are less Christian than Christian Schools. Not sure if that makes sense. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1811 Registered: 3-2004  |
The title of this thread is Ellen White (SOP). I have to tell you how I read that. Ellen White (same old procedure. In other words same of nothing. Just my two cents worth. Diana | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 687 Registered: 3-2005 |
Right Richard, we are fellow alumni of Modesto Adventist Academy. Stan |
