| Author | Message | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2005 |
~ D E A T H ~ WHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO EXPLAIN IT A sick man turned to his doctor, as he was preparing to leave the examination room and said, "Doctor, I am afraid to die. Tell me what lies on the other side." Very quietly, the doctor said, "I don't know." "You don't know? You, a Christian man, do not know what is on the other side?" The doctor was holding the handle of the door; on the other side came a sound of scratching and whining, and as he opened the door, a dog sprang into the room and leaped on him with an eager show of gladness. Turning to the patient, the doctor said, "Did you notice my dog? He's never been in this room before. He didn't know what was inside. He knew nothing except that his master was here, and when the door opened, he sprang in without fear. I know little of what is on the other side of death, but I do know one thing... I know my Master is there and that is enough." | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 913 Registered: 3-2005 |
Wow Brian 3, that is enough!! As a dog lover myself, I wish I were as trusting of my Master as my dog is trusting of me Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2704 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thanks, Brian--that's wonderful. I have to share a forward I received on the subject of heaven recently. (This is not a quote--merely a paraphrase.) A Sunday School teacher was asking her charges what was required to go to heaven. "If I clean my room and wash the dishes and speak respectuflly all the time, will that get me to heaven?" "No," answered the children. Pleased, the teacher continued: "What if I pay tithe [!], go to Sunday School regularly, and read my Bible every day. Will that get me to heaven?" "No!" repeated the students. Feeling quite pleased with herself for her success in teaching her charges the basics of salvation, she asked again, "What if I memorize Bible verses and share the gospel and help out with Sunday School?" Again they all chorused, "NO!" Delighted, she asked, "So what do I have to do to get to heaven?" A small boy raised his hand and answered, "You have to be DEAD!" Colleen | ||
| Patrickfoy Registered user Username: Patrickfoy Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2004  |
Hee-Hee  I love kids, their logic is so real that it keeps most adults on their toes.... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1999 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was at church around a year ago and the pastor gave the children's story. This was in a Lutheran church. The pastor asked the children a series of questions such as , "Can we know we will someday be with Jesus?" After the children were all assured that yes, they can be sure one day they will be with Jesus the pastor asked them "Why do you know you can be with Jesus someday?" I think the answer being Lutheran was faith through grace. One kid said because he is a Lutheran and Lutherans believe in Jesus. Then a little boy, age five blurted out, "But, don't Baptists get more points?" Immediatelly the minister realized he had to prolong his children's sermon and explain that Baptists don't get more points, that God goes by the individuals and not if you are Baptist or Lutheran or Catholic or go to any other church. He then pointed out to the children that none of the Christian denominations in the world today were even around while Jesus was on earth, that's why in the Apostle's Creed we refer to "the holy catholic church". It was kind-of funny and the poor mother was really taken aback because her little boy had never been in a church other than Lutheran. | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2005 |
There Is No Death Death. There is no death. Not lasting death Like all the temporal things we touch and see. Not like the monuments of stone and steel With which we link the thought that: ìIt shall ever be!î Nor with the projections of our thoughts Of things that we assume last on into the darkened depths Of fathomless Eternity. No. . . We are taught to thus see death (and falsely so,) as we view life, Always from the vantage point of youthÖ As reaching forward, always in laughter and in sunlight With total satisfaction our never-ending emotion. But. . . such is not reality. For all too soon we find that life proves cruel And taunting in itís tangled web of never ending curves Thrown before us without the slightest warning; Nor with wisdom; To help us chart the way. Death . . . This lasting death with which we so identify; ìWhere have you gone?î For at the moment you first appear . . .You thus escape our gaze and disappear As quickly and silently as vapor in the wind. How can this be? ìYou did come . . . Did you not?î The soul inquires. But nay . . . It is a fantasy of rationality. For there is another dimension unknown to man. The existence of which has always been. For that which man declares impossible to know . . . Does not make it so . . on the plane of Godís Reality. Death. There is no death. Only manís misguided fantasy. There only remains a mystic door Through which we pass. The only pain . . . Is from the unexpected and unfinished; For it is to these realities that we tie our love And dreams; . . . And thus, We dread the parting. But death remains a door . . . No more, No less. A door within a garden wall, as hath the poet spoken. And passing through this door . . . It is not what is left that counts upon the scales of time and space; But that dimension . . . Unseen, Unknown, Which beckons from the Realm of Light. A Light . . . The Source of which has never known Beginning. And Whoís existence thus we doubted Because . . . We knew not how to focus on Un-consciousness. Until . . . In laying down our robe, We stepped beyond; To reach And grasp The Ultimate Reality Of our Eternal Being. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2709 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh my, Jess--thank you. Colleen | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2005 |
Jess, What a neat poem! I love the ending: "We stepped beyond; to reach and grasp the Ultimate Reality of our Eternal Being." To think that for so many years I, with many others of my SDA faith -thought we had all the answers regarding the subject of death. When the veil was lifted from my eyes, this was one of many subjects that the door was blown wide open on! I find it fascinating considering the "hereafter" in a whole new light. Thanks for sharing. Linda | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 467 Registered: 4-2000  |
Linda, I am convinced that the the SDA-JW view of death is one of their most harmful aberrations. It distorts most everything in the Bible (i.e., soteriology, Christology, pneumatology, etc.). If one doesn't understand creation correctly (man being created with a dualistic nature--body and soul) in Genesis it casts a dark shadow on the rest of Scripture. This soul sleep idea was the last SDA doctrine that my wife and I surrendered to Jesus. Indeed, it is a cultic hold on the deceived. Let us never cease to expose the captors and evangelize the captives so that others can also be set free. BTW, tomorrow is the annual FREEDOM DAY at our house. October 16, 2000 was the exact day that we were officially removed from the SDA membership roster. It took them eight months (with extra phone calls and emails) to finally honor our request. Praise God, we are free in Christ! In awe of Calvary, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1927 Registered: 3-2004  |
Congratulations Fischers!! How many years is that? The state of the dead is the last I gave up also. I was so comfortable with it. But God wanted better for me and I am so free!!! Thanks God you are Always AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2008 Registered: 11-2002 |
The SDA understanding of the state of the dead was the first doctrine I never had to give up because I never believed it. I was in 5th grade at Fresno Academy and our teachger had us memorize John 3:16. Then a few months later our teacher, who by the way never even had gone to college but got the job teaching because she was so loyal to the SDA church and knew the writings of EGW inside-out, anyway, this teacher began pounding us 11 year olds with the SDA doctrine of the state of the dead. I remember raising my hand and quoting back to her John 3:16 emphasing the words, "...will not die but have everlasting life." She told me I was a little girl and I obiviouselly didn't understand those words but when I grew up /I'd understand. However, the opposite happened. The more older I got the less sense I could make out of any and every SDA teaching because I always liked reading my Bible so much. I remember in 5th grade promising myself tghat when I grew up I was not going to go to my parents church anymore. Unfortunatelly whenever I'd hear entire sermons about the importance of freedom of religion I always took that personal and interpertered it to mean that SDA'S would be happy that anyone would want to be any religion. I honestly believed them when I'd hear about the importance of freedom of religion. Oh, silly me! SDA's do not want their SDA raised loved ones to practice freedom of religion. They want those people to be in bondage to the SDA denomination. And, that to me is what makes the SDA denomination a cult, way more so than the corny doctrines. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2005 |
I must say that this belief is hard for me to change. I told my kids to go to daddy now for bible answers because he knows better than I do (he is a baptist). I've taken this teaching to heart so please pray for me. I will read more about it, but it still somehow has to get to my heart and it just isn't there yet. It is hard to change. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2723 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, I totally agree with you re: the danger of the doctrine of soul sleep. I've come to believe it is the denomination's most dangerous heresy because of its implications for the nature of Christ, the nature of sin, the new birth, and more. Lynne, it was one of the last beliefs I gave up, also. God will guide you. Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 927 Registered: 3-2005 |
Happy Anniversry Dennis and congratulations on your 5th anniversary! Stan | ||
| Cy Registered user Username: Cy Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2005 |
Hi, Lynne. I just recently started to understand what happens when we die. I had always wondered about "soul sleep" because of several things Jesus said, including Luke 16 (Rich Man and Lazarus - did Jesus ever tell untruth just to make a point?) and Luke 23:43 (to the thief on the cross). Other great NT verses are Phillipians 1:21-24 and 2 Corinthians 5:6-8. There's a great article at http://www.sdaoutreach.org/dead.cfm that may be of help. And to Dennis: Happy Anniversary! Blessings, Cy | ||
| Williamjr007 Registered user Username: Williamjr007 Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi, can someone briefly explain what the SDA actually beliefs about dead. My girlfriend says we go in some kind of sleep because who other than the dead will raise from the grave when Jesus comes back, if we are already in heaven? Never thought about that... She also states that we are dust with the 'breath' of God giving us life and that's it. When we die, God takes His breath back and we become dust again..."sleeping" until His return. Sounds new for me. Thanks, Willy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 695 Registered: 7-2004 |
What you are describing is the SDA belief referred to as "soul sleep." They believe that the soul and the breath are the very same thing, and that when we, as humans breathe out our last breath in death, we surrender our soul (the breath) to God, and essentially cease to exist except as a notation in the memory of God. In fact, it might be interesting if you were to describe that process to her sometime. What I have just described to you is the actual SDA belief, but not very many SDA think it through to that logical conclusion. Anyway, minus the breath (soul) the body returns to dust, the memory of the person is stored away in the mind of God, and they await the second coming when God will call the dust forth from the grave and will recreate (clone?) the individual in an immortal body. Please refer to one of the many discussions on this site regarding soul sleep and the state of the dead. What I have described above is not biblical. Man was a special creation, and in the Garden of Eden "God Breath" or "Eternal Life" was breathed into Adam, and man has been, for better or worse, an eternal being every since. Yes, man sinned, and that complicated things. That is why you have Jesus talking about Hell and the Bosom of Abraham. Before the cross those who had chosen to trust God for their salvation and died an earthly death had their souls "stored" in "the Bosom of Abraham." Jesus never lied, and he never used an untruth to teach with, so you can trust his teaching about death as found in the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus. Adventists will tell you he taught as he did because of a prevailing belief of his time, but Jesus was the Creator of this world and was never bound by mere modes of the day--remember that--because when talking to SDA's they will try to convince you of that. Anyway, please go to the "Discussions" list on this site and look up everything you can with regard to the state of the dead. This is a hot topic with Formers as well as SDA's, so it has been thoroughly argued out and documented with Biblical texts and support. I, too, will do some research and will come back in a little while with some URL's to lead you to those discussions. Believe me, if you stick with us long enough, we will equip you with Biblical back-up to help refute every false SDA doctrine. We have all had to break free of those beliefs, and were all of us as brain-washed as it is possible to be. God has been with us in our discussions and has lead us to truth as expressed in his Word. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 696 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Willy, As promised, I did a quick search on this site and came up with a thread you might want to read, when you have the time, because it is long. It has also been thoroughly studied out by the wonderful people on this site, complete with supporting texts. http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/1449.html | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 697 Registered: 7-2004 |
Here is another link to a fairly recent discussion on the topic of "State of the Dead." http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/3213.html | ||
| Williamjr007 Registered user Username: Williamjr007 Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 |
Thanks a lot Belva! Really appreciate the fact that you spend some time searching for those links. I'll look at them and will try to understand the SDA point of view and what the Bible has to say about this. Willy |
