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Jerry
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Username: Jerry

Post Number: 475
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just saw a piece on ABC's World News Tonight about longevity and faith. I was not able to catch all of it, but I did catch the following "facts:"

They were talking about Adventists in California (probably Loma Linda area).

The reporter said that Adventism was founded in the "mid 1800's based on their health message."
Or words to that effect.

Did someone else see this?

Is it just me, or did it seem like the report was practically dictated by an arm of the General Conference?

Is that why the SDA church was founded? I don't think so.

What about the claims implying that people live longer "on Adventism?"

Once again, they're "just plain folk, a bunch of evangelical Christians just like all the other denominations . . . with a little more secret information than the rest . . ."
Jerry
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Username: Jerry

Post Number: 476
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sent an e-mail to ABC:

quote:

The show at 5 p.m. channel 12 San Antonio. The report on Longevity/Faith. This report pointed to a Seventh-day Adventist community in California. the reporter said the church was founded in the mid 1800's based on their health message. Look at these web sites for a very different view: www.truthorfables.com; www.ellenwhite.org; www.formeradventist.com. The report seemed to have content provided mostly by the SDA church.

This church is full of misleading policies and facts.


Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1945
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for doing what you can to keep the facts straight about Adventism.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 2771
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry, how interesting. I hadn't see/heard of it, but thank you so much, as Diana also said, for attempting to keep the facts straight.

Colleen
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1142
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't see that particular one, but heard they're running the series all this week. I wondered if they'd mention SDA. What that shows you is how poorly the media researches some stories and their bias'.
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 477
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to Dr. Samuele Bacchiocci, the SDA guru on sabbatarianism, the attendance at the last GC Session in St.Louis was markedly less in number (something like 50 percent less attendance on weekends than in Toronto). The Adventist Review failed to tell us that (smile).

Dennis Fischer
Pauls
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Username: Pauls

Post Number: 21
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

adventist have claimed to live longer and healthier (on average) than the average american.

This is a claim that should be easily provable from various statistical sources--there are two large historic studies--Adventist Health Study and Adventist Health Study 2. If I remember ,these were funded by gov't grant to get to the truth about lifestyle and mortality...so while they were produced by Advnetist--there may have been some gov't oversight?

why can't we just go look at the evidence ? and if the Aadventist Health data is skewed by lying Adventists, can it still not be confirmed by sources out side of GC control? such as National Inst. of Health, Center for Disease Control and other gov't agencies whose job it is to collect morbidity and mortality statistics...

certainly, we can not conclude there is some value to abstinence from alcohol and tobacco as many insurance companies will give non drinkers and non smokers a lower premium rate (implying a lower risk), or has the GC got all their propoanga out to the insurance industry??

i'd really like to see some factual data.
Raven
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Username: Raven

Post Number: 311
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 6:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Somewhere I've heard (and wish I could verify it), that the Mormons also live longer and healthier than the general American population and that their longevity is comparable to that of SDA's. They don't smoke or drink, but they do eat meat. Has anyone accounted for those differences? Not smoking or abusing alcohol would go a very long way towards improving a person's health, and I would think that would be more measurable than whether or not eating meat improved a person's health. Besides, when I was in an SDA academy, I was practically the only one who had never tasted meat, and most of the students ate meat regularly. What about all the heavily processed foods, desserts, and highly fattening foods that nearly every SDA potluck table is laden with? Shouldn't that have an adverse affect on health?

In my unsubstantiated opinion, there is such a mix within the SDA population of who does or doesn't eat meat, and who does or doesn't refrain from excessively fattening foods/junk food. The only thing nearly every SDA has in common with each other is they probably don't smoke and drink little or no alcohol. That would then put them in the same lifestyle category as the Mormons. I would like to see some factual data on a group, such as the Mormons, who have a fairly healthy lifestyle but are not vegetarians.

Probably the reason the SDA's get studied so much is because they make public claim to having an important health message.
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe a Dr. Hunt??? did some sort of analysis of the SDA research study and said they had not controlled for alcohol and tobacco use in the study. I will see if I can find specifics, but as I recall he said that when you controlled for those substances, longevity was similar. I have also heard Mormon stats are similar, but I haven't seen anything personally.

The longevity reporters were on Good morning America this morning talking about people who live longer. They mentioned SDAs as 3rd, specifically those in California. They said they adhere to the SDA lifestyle strictly, but most of the things they talked about could be applied to many people of faith...taking a day for worship (regardless which day), going to church 4 times a month, having close community/family relationships, non-drinkers, non-smokers and while they mentioned most were vegetarians, said specifically said they all "avoid pork". They also said that SDAs live 10 years longer according to their information. That is higher than any stat I've ever read. They mentioned two other groups who are high than SDAs, but not vegetarians, though they don't eat lots of meat. They mentioned those groups ate lots of beans. I don't recall the 2nd group, but the first was Okinawans
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 2786
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting, Melissa. In years past I've heard news reports on the radio stating that Mormons live approximately seven years longer than the average population.

I've also heard and read reports stating that attending church regularly is statistically significant in adding years to a life span, although I can't remember how many years. There is also statistically significant longevity associated with regular prayer or meditation.

I remember a few years ago at one of our early FAF meetings, a former SDA doctor who held an administrative position at Loma Linda for many years commented that the Adventist health study findings yield longevity results that are nearly identical with those found in the general Christian population if you control for alcohol consumption, smoking, and regular ingestion of red meats. He said that Christians who don't smoke, drink, or use lots of red meat BUT eat white meat and fish have comparable longevity to Adventists who are vegetarian.

It appears that diet, with the exception of alcohol and also tobacco (which isn't actually diet!), is not itself the greatest determiner of health. While certain meats do add risk factors, others do not seem to. Regular worship and prayer and abstinence from carcinogenic substances such as alcohol and tobacco seem to have a consistently greater effect.

Colleen
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 255
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The report on Goodmorning America came from this National Geographic site if anyone's interested.
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0511/sights_n_sounds/index.html

Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 2789
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Esther. Very interesting.

Colleen
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I listened to the report from that site Esther...thanks for posting it. But what I can't see evidence of is anything more than observation of what is or what is claimed is. There was no statistical data to support the cause/effect that seems to be insinuated. The report last night acknowledged that genes is about 30% involved in longevity, and that if you have relatives in the 90s, 100s, you are more like to make it there yourself. This website seemed little more than an observational one. I've read real detailed studies on centurians that had far more statistically objective analysis than this and they conclude that there are few components consistent amongst all centurians. It just makes me further skeptical of such reports, unless there is more specifics that I just didn't find.

And all of these things make me wonder about "God's sovereignty" as has been hit hard on other threads. Does he have no say in how long a person lives? Is it all in my control?
Pheeki
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Username: Pheeki

Post Number: 685
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have relatives who smoked a cigar everyday of their adult lives, ate pork and ran saloons...and are still alive in their 90's.

Then I have relatives who are all their lives SDA, who have never touched a bite of meat, no alcohol, no smoke, etc. and died in their 70's of cancer.

Go figure.

I think stress and negativity has a lot to do with longevity!
Jerry
Registered user
Username: Jerry

Post Number: 481
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, we all probably have that sort of anecdote.

I have my greasy-meat eating, drown with pepper relatives who lived into their hundreds, and others who died in their fifties.

I guess I was not so upset with the idea that this SDA community was living long. Rather, the ABC report distorted the history and did not really support their premise with a little more outside information.

By the way, I only received ABC's automated response (no surprise).
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 2791
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, that question has come up for me, too. I ultimately have to say I don't know how it all works, but I suspect that when we enter eternity, a decade here more or less will seem fairly trivial.

I also wondered how they gathered their data. If they used the Adventist Health Study, they have already allowed the Adventists to stack the deck. I have heard from good authority that only those Adventists actually attending Adventist churches and on the books are allowed to participate--and how many of those actually fill out the questionnairre? How accurate is the data each gives, btw?

I'm not sure the Adventists were studied by an outside observer. (It's not that I doubt observant SDAs live longer than the average population; I just wonder about the data gathering.)

Also, that 10 year advantage is compared to the general population, not to other Christians with reasonable education re: health and fitness.

Colleen
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 559
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a die-hard SDA friend who has been vegan for many years who has begun to eat chicken and some fish recently because her SDA vegetarian mother has Parkinson's. She said that Loma Linda has a study that shows there is a higher probability of Parkinson's and Alzheimers (sp) in vegetarians/vegans due to lack of B12 in their diets. Has anyone heard of this study? It is VERY amazing that this woman is eating meat. Here strict SDA husband gets very angry at her when she cooks chicken and fish and insists that she NOT bring it in the house!
Weimarred
Registered user
Username: Weimarred

Post Number: 97
Registered: 1-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther, that was interesting!

I had to laugh that while the narrator was talking about the day of rest, the pictures showed people moyorcycling and swimming! Ha! I don't remember any of that...

The narrator also obviously equated a vegetarian diet with longer longevity, a point that I don't think is truly supported by complete scientific studies.

He also seems to have an obsession with blaming McDonalds for all evil.

For me, this was yet another example of how divorced photojournalism is from the scientific method. I realize that the story will always be shaped to some degree by the stroyteller, but I just wish they wouldn't cloak themselves with such a pompous, "me smart, you hoi poloi" , pseudo-scientific attitude. After all, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to report the news!

As many of you have already pointed out, if you don't drink or smoke, you're not overweight, and you've found a balanced peace, well, yeah, you're going to live longer. Who'd of thunk?

-Tom
Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Over the years, I have seen a disproportionately high number of vegetarian SDAís with Parkinsonís disease. For those with a lot of meat analogues in their diet, there was a disproportionate number with colon cancer.

Have any of you seen similar trends???

Larry
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 319
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the studies I saw a few years ago said that there seemed to be a causual link between the pesticides on fruit and Parkinson's in people.

Growing up SDA fruit was considered one of the best things to eat there was.

It would not surprise me that there's a high incidence of Parkinson's.

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