| Author | Message | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'm reading a book about Martin Luther's Life. I remember from the study I did out of Adventism that there was discussion that EG White ìpropheticallyî wrote things about Luther that were stated as false. One such incident was that Luther remembered the text "The Righteous Shall Live By Faith" as he was ascending up the stairs in Rome. The book Iím reading states that someone heard Luther's son state that his father was reminded of the text as he went up the stairs - speaking of the event some 35 years after the fact. Can any of you remember who discussed this issue in regard to EG WHITE, and where I can find the information? I looked on ex-sda (Jack Gent's site) scanning and didn't see it. The book was written by Edwin B. Booth and published by Barbour Publishing. Is that affiliated with the SDA Church? My mom gave our son this book. Just trying to get the facts straight. Luther was amazing for God. I am inspired! Tempting to send our "thesis" to the GC Pres. Lisa | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2020 Registered: 11-2002 |
Lisa, Just last night I read on the Truth or Fables site the messed up things EGW saw in vision about Martin Luther. Her visions were not very accurate. Go to the links section on this website and go to the Truth or Fables site. Then you go way far down and you will see where she gets Martin Luther's life all messed up. It's interesting. I'll look for the exact link after I finish this, write it on a piece of paper and then post it here. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 931 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lisa, Just curious about what Luther book you are reading? It is true that EGW got her anti-pope stuff from Luther and Spurgeon, but she didn't get a lot of history right. Stan | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2005 |
It may be that we don't know for sure when Luther had his great insight into the truth that the 'just shall live by faith'. I would tend to believe it more likely that he read commentary by Augustine while he (Luther) was preparing to lecture on the book of Romans and the Holy Spirit 'turned on the light' to the beauty of Justification by Faith Alone. Sola Deo Gloria! | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2005 |
The book is called Martin Luther by Edwin B. Booth Published by Barbour Publishing. What I'm getting from this book is fascinating. It describes Luther as a man not looking at all to pick a fight with his beloved church but a man of God wanting to clean it up. The books states that he struggled personally at the beginning of his vow to live as a man of God with depression over the issue of sin, and that brothers, older and wiser, guided him to see the Crucified Christ and His sacrifice as an object of fixation as a means of leaving behind the heavy guilt that seemed to overcome him. The book also notes that he was heavily influenced by Augustine, and became almost obsessed (in a good way) with the scripture as God showed him more and more of himself which gave him peace he survived on. It seems, according to what I'm reading, that his fight with the church came to him, not the other way around, as he was quite a noted professor with his Doctorate of Theology and was accustomed to stating the blatant and uncomfortable, and that when he "pounded his 95 thesis to the church door" that he was not in any way doing something to incite a fight, but that the door of the church was also the bulletin board for the University where he taught and he often placed announcements or debates on that door as a way of letting others know that a lecture would be held on a certain topic, etc... I encourage you to read up on Luther if you've not as each one of us who has left our mother church due to convictions has so much to learn about how to allow God's Grace to permeate the experience so as to allow for the most good to come of the satiation. Please fill me in on all you know of Luther as his life facinates me at the present. Lisa | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 933 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lisa, I'm glad you are excited about Martin Luther. He is at the top of my great heroes of the faith list. This man had a passion for the truth of the gospel like no other. He loved music. He had a wonderful wife named Katie who ran the family business of a beer brewery, and whenever Martin would leave home for extended periods of time, he would write how he missed Katie's brew. Luther was a true Biblical scholar. He translated the whole Bible from Latin into German. He would spend 3-4 hours per day in prayer. But interestingly enough he was not into false piety. He would spend time in the pubs witnessing for the truth of the gospel. He was known for his overstatements such as this one "if you are feeling too close to the Lord, you've got to go out and sin a little--in other words its OK to have a good time. My favorite work of Luther's is his commentary on Galatians. This book, which you can now get in modern English, helped me tremendously when I was leaving Adventism. It helped me see clearly the most important doctrine of Justification by grace alone, through faith alone on the account of Christ alone. Luther said it was on this doctrine that the Christian church stands or falls. What a great truth to fight for! The martyrs spilled their blood to preserve this truth, but there are those today in modern evangelicalism who are publically proclaiming to the press that the protestant Reformation was about unimportant doctrines that just divide people. Are they kidding? It is the true gospel itself that is at stake today. I hope we get more people with Luther's spirit who will fight for doctrinal purity. It is true as you say that at first Luther tried to reform the church from within and tried to be noncombative, but later in life he realized that Catholicism was unreformable, (like many of us who have left SDA over doctrinal issues, and believe Adventism is unreformable) he then did not mince words. He said the papacy was nothing more than a front for the kingdom of Satan, and that the Pope was the devil's apostle. It is interesting that for almost 500 years the true church of Jesus Christ has always recognized the pope as anti-christ. EGW did not come up with any new revelation about this corrupt and blasphemous organization that was not already known. You can go read Spurgeon's quotes about the papacy, and you will find the same principles mentioned. He said we should pray against the papacy and make war against it and pray for anti-christ to be defeated. Spurgeon had the spirit of Martin Luther. There are some voices in our modern church who also recognize what the papacy is, and are not afraid to call sin by its right name, and they are people like R.C. Sproul, Michael Horton, and especially John MacArthur. In fact the latter reminds you of Luther and Spurgeon when he speaks on Catholicism. However, when I hear him describe Catholicism, I hear him describing Adventism as well. Any system which denies that salvation is entirely and only by grace is anathema according to Gal. 1:8,9. May the spirit of Martin Luther forever endure in the true church of Jesus Christ! Sola gratia, Stan | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'm still reading the book. I figured he got to the place where he identified the church as rot, but it was facinating how it all started. Thank you for all the great information. Any favorite authors who wrote on Luther? Lisa | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2002 |
I read that Martin Luther suffered from kidney stones, at some point, and he dealt with it in a very effective manner. He tanked up on Katie's brew, all he could hold, and bounced around on some cobblestone streets in an ox cart. He passed the stones. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2024 Registered: 11-2002 |
You can go to www.oldlutheran.com and order the movie about his life that came out last year. It is an excellant movie, was even in the theaters. It's around $20.00. Not much theology in it, mostly biography. Very dramatic and according the ministers where I attend wweekly services very accurate, too. While you are at the oldlutheran website be sure to check out the scetion labled humor. The Ole and Lena jokes are so, so funny. | ||
| Pauls Registered user Username: Pauls Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2005 |
why are we so hard on ellen for what she said about luther? whoever she copied it from was the one who screwed it up...  | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1125 Registered: 7-2003  |
The others didn't claim to speak for God...Ellen did. Everyone makes mistakes...God doesn't. By Ellen's claim, she would probably say God made the mistake since he told her what to copy. Now doesn't that sound harsh! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2744 Registered: 12-2003  |
Actually, I don't think you're far off, Melissa. She did say God held his hand over William Miller's miscaluclation in his 1843 prophecy of Christ's return so people would "get ready" anyway. Colleen | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 210 Registered: 6-2001  |
I would recommend the movie as well. It was very well done (ie not cheesy), and my Grandma who is a Lutheran said it is accurate. Well, except she thought his wife looked too worldly to have been a nun. But in the grand scheme of things that is a very small complaint! In the movie as well Luther is struck by the idiocy of Catholicism as he is climbing the steps to St. Peters. We rented the movie from a video store. Visually, Hannah | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 673 Registered: 1-2003 |
I heard Luther wouldn't come preach until after 11am because he was sleeping off the booze. Gotta love him! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 936 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pheeki, Did you read that about Luther? If you did, let me know the reference. Maybe you mean that as a joke, and I misinterpreted you. But everything I have read about Luther would not imply that he was a drunk. He was up early most of the time spending time inBible study and prayer. But I also liked his attitude towards alcohol. He once said that wine and women may be abused my many people, but why blame the objects of abuse instead of the abuser. Does that mean we should ban women?" He also saw nothing wrong with selling beer as his wife brewed it and sold it to support his ministry. Imagine if someone did that today in evangelical America. Luther would not be accepted very well today if he were in America, as he was too politically incorrect and spoke out too much against the pope. Stan | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2026 Registered: 11-2002 |
At ther Old Lutheran website you can order tee-shirts that say, "Sin Boldly...". It is a quote by Pastor Luther. Actually when read in context he was making a point about being forgiven and in grace. The tee-shirts are a crack-up. I ordered one that says, "Lutheran chick" and has a flock of little chickens on it. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2005 |
Concerning EG White and her comments about Luther, the part I find questionable would be how she interjected Luther hearing a voice from heaven with the information "The Just Shall Live by Faith". If she had mistaken other information she had gleaned for the writing, she never did find a source that said he heard a voice from heaven, but that he had a thought or remembered a text, etc... You have to link this skewing of realities with miles of similar other "mistakes" all the while claiming to be receiving visions and hearing voices from God on this information. It's the package message that is problematic, very problematic. Even FALSE.... Thus a False Prophet. Lisa P.S. Luther may have used alcohol excessively. I don't drink at all because there are plenty of alcoholics in my family... I could be one, I wouldn't know unless I took that drink. However, the Bible, God's Holy Word, DOES NOT CONDEMN the use of alcohol but DRUNKENNESS. We love rule upon rule. We are uncomfortable with Spirit Control. Not Luther. Me neither!!! And I'm loving the Control of the Spirit. It's a Daily Gift. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 324 Registered: 7-2004  |
When you realize just how different "salvation by grace alone through faith alone" is to the SDA teaching of "righteousness by faith" it is interesting to re-read Venden's 95 Theses book. It is such a stark contrast to Luther's teaching. I was reading Sproul's Faith Alone when I visited my in-laws some months ago. I picked up Venden's 95 Theses and felt sick reading through it. To think that SDAs are fooled into thinking that this garbage has any similarity to what the reformers taught is disgusting. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 703 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was reading about Luther having to sleep off his wife's brew and it reminded me of something I saw from one of the learning channels recently. It was about coffee and how it came to be such a favorite drink all around. Coffee was first discovered when a farmer in Arabia noticed that his goats were eating the berries off of a particular wild shrub and would become jumpy and energetic after a little while. The Arabic people soon after adopted coffee drinking. They carefully guarded the seeds to their special shrub because the drink they made from them made them mentally acute and shewd businessmen. Meanwhile, in the middle ages, drinking water was so dangerous and polluted that nobody would touch it. Instead, Europeans drank wine and beer, so most everybody had a good buzz on, sometimes by late morning, and then with further swilling of the grog they continued to become "groggier." The result of that is that the people from the Middle East were wide-eyed and aware, and the Europeans were slightly dull and looking for a place for a nap. I'm not exaggerating about this one. Both had to be careful of the water, but the coffee drinkers were boiling their water, and the others had a drink that was being sterilized by alcohol. Luther was a product of his time and place when it came to how he hydrated himself. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 77 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'll have to re-read Venden's 95 thesis. I did get a grace base as a kid, but mixed with lots of other stuff. |
