| Author | Message | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 482 Registered: 6-2002 |
Although I currently eat almost no animal products, you don't want to get me started about the endless hypocracies of vegetarianism. Let me just say this: all food, whether animal or vegetable has the potential for contamination, or detrimental over-use. Even highly distilled water can kill you if you drink too much, for instance if you drink nothing but distilled water in huge quantities you can be "poisoned" even when you don't "chug it" or choke on it. The "perfect diet" is, and has always been: variety, moderation, and balance. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2795 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've also heard of the pesticide link; I read an article discussing the possibility in "Discover" magazine over ten years ago. I hadn't heard of the vegan/vegetarian link, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think I might do a bit of internet research on that. (My maternal grandmother died of Parkinson's.) I've also read that there's some preliminary suggestion that the use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (aspirin, advil, but NOT tylenol) has a preventive effect. I don't know if you all have encountered this, but many deeply observant Adventists feel it is wrong to use even over-the-counter meds. Ellen used to counsel people against using drugs and promoted natural cures instead. I've know Adventists who feel somehow unholy if they take an aspirin or advil for a headache. I've even heard some say they can't monitor the course of their headache if they take aspirin. Like, monitor WHAT headache? If it's gone, it's gone... Colleen | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 101 Registered: 1-2005  |
Obviously, we have a deep to desire to not just live long and prosper ourselves, but to take care of our elders as best we can. It was tough to watch my father dying of cancer at such a young age. But we're essentially in uncharted territory here. It wasn't so long ago that humans were dying off at a very young age, infant mortality rates were off the charts by today's comparison, etc. Science is plugging along at finding out what will make us live longer, but we do live an incredibly complex global environment these days that makes it next to impossible to accurately find smoking guns. I can't help but be glad that I was born in this day and age, and in this country, where I have an especially good chance of living past 70 (or 50, for that matter!). Sure, we can find ways to stack the deck in our favor, and much is tied in with our overall attitude towards life. But it IS laughable when people find the "sacred truth" ahead of science, and not only that, base the "gospel truth" on it. For example, masturbation is clearly NOT the cause of every physical ill :-) And of course, there's that whole thing of living long, yet living miserably. I won't go so far as take Billy Joel's "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" to heart too closely, but after all, if you can have peace because peace is out there to have, I'd rather have the peace. | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 483 Registered: 6-2002 |
ROTFLOL!! (Colleen) . . . and how will I monitor the progress of my knee pain if I stop hitting it with this hammer? ( ouch . . . ouch . . . ouch . . . ouch . . .) (Message edited by Jerry on October 25, 2005) | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2005 |
Oh, Cheez Whiz, Jerry, that was funny! Kentucky Fried Movie, anyone? Remember the Headache Institute, where they study headches by smacking people in the head with hammers, running them into brick walls... | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1149 Registered: 7-2003  |
Amen, Colleen and others! B will eat stuff off the grocery store shelf if it says it's organic. I'll ask him if there's no possibility a bird has flown by and left a few tidbits or any rodent crawling across it in shipping....oh no, if the label says its organic and washed, no need to waste the water now. He also was highly critical when I would take something for my migraines. He was even present when my ob/gyn said the caffeine in chocolate was also good for some headaches. Of course, he just dismissed her as one of those poorly educated in secular schools...forget she was practicing in an SDA health system. For a long long time, I tried to not take medications around him, and would just suffer with horrible migraines. Till one day it suddenly dawned on me that he suffered nothing at my agony, so why was I enduring it for him??? He was the same way when Jonathan was teething....just let him get used to the pain... Forget that noise. I would give him tylenol while B sat there and stewed in his own juices. He would get so mad. I also saw a story reported one time where the government has different people across the country prepare meals as they typically would, then they send it off to some government lab to test for things...pesticides included. On this particular occasion it was the local news highlighting some church ladies preparing a meal to raise money for something their church was doing. The non-organic food showed no higher elements of pesticides than the organic foods did and the organic food had no more nutrient value than the food that was not "naturally grown". It begged the question: where is the research that organic food IS better than non-organic food? Is it purely psychological that there are differences? Let's put the rubber to the road... Do SDA women refuse epidurals more than nons do? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2798 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good question, Melissa! Speaking of organic, I've also heard on the news that organic vegetables such as lettuce have much higher counts of bacteria than the non-organic. (Think MANURE as opposed to chemical fertilizers.) This fact causes them to be actually somewhat dangerous (depending on the the degree of contamination) because delicate produce like lettuce and strawberries cannot be washed well with substances to kill the bacteria. Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1027 Registered: 7-2003  |
Weimarred, You must be a child of the 80's like myself. I recognize the cover of Working Class Dog. Chris | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2005 |
Jerry, more then likely that info came from the Health Ministries Dept at the GC. I have asked the guru's there if they ever drank or smoked, and OF COURSE they never did? So I then asked how can they tell people the evils of alcohol and tobbacco with a clear conscience? I got the canned reply about the evidence from Loma Linda and what Mrs White said. I told them I would gladly tell my tales of woes of drinking while in the Military, but, since I was not a life long SDA, I was turned down. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 337 Registered: 7-2004  |
During college at AU I was heavily involved in health ministry activity. My final years there I was a student representative to a GC taskforce on alcohol abuse (which in SDAism meant any use). I believe this was the first year of the task force. I recall sitting in an auditorium full of people at AU during an early meeting of this taskforce. I highly respected professor in the seminary was speaking about the case for abstinence from alcohol and said that if we want to proclaim abstinence as the expectation we need to increase confidence in EGW because abstinence is not taught in Scripture. I had come to a similar conclusion less than a year earlier, but I was both surprised and somewhat re-assured to hear someone well respected for their Biblical knowledge say the same thing to a large group of SDAs. The amazing thing to me was that every head was nodding agreement. No one challenged the idea that it wasn't taught in Scripture! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1152 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, Colleen. My step-mother used to work at KU med center and one of the ER docs said he would NOT eat anything organic because it usually has higher e-coli contamination. B says if they compost manure properly, it should not have e-coli, but that sounds like an unknown if ever I heard one. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2803 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! Somehow, Melissa, B's "argument" sounds awfully hollow! Without heat or chemicals, how would e-coli die if it was in a "culture" of its favorite nutrient? Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1030 Registered: 7-2003 |
Ha! Ric, this reminds me of when I was in college at Union. Someone reported that they saw a couple of my frends having a beer in a Lincoln resturant. So the school required them to undergo a full course of mandatory outpatient drug and alcohol dependency testing and treatment. I have to wonder what the secular counselors at the treatment facility thought of this. I can just see the questions now: Counselor: So how many drinks to you have per day? Student: Uh, usually zero. I had a beer about two weeks ago though. Counselor: Come on, quit lying and face your problem? I didn't fall of the trunip truck yesterday. Do you expect me to believe a college sent a 22 year old to drug treatment because they have an occasional beer? I'm not that stupid. Student: No really. I swear. Counselor: Sigh......I can see we've got a lot of work to do here. You may just need inpatient rehab...... Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1031 Registered: 7-2003 |
Ha! Ric, this reminds me of when I was in college at Union. Someone reported that they saw a couple of my frends having a beer in a Lincoln resturant. So the school required them to undergo a full course of mandatory outpatient drug and alcohol dependency testing and treatment. I have to wonder what the secular counselors at the treatment facility thought of this. I can just see the questions now: Counselor: So how many drinks to you have per day? Student: Uh, usually zero. I had a beer about two weeks ago though. Counselor: Come on, quit lying and face your problem? I didn't fall of the trunip truck yesterday. Do you expect me to believe a college sent a 22 year old to drug treatment because they have an occasional beer? I'm not that stupid. Student: No really. I swear. Counselor: Sigh......I can see we've got a lot of work to do here. You may just need inpatient rehab...... Chris | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 106 Registered: 1-2005 |
Yes, Chris, I was a product of the 80s. In my ever humble opinion, the music from that deacade was the greatest. At least it had some variety. Since about 1990, every single blessed song seems to have the same beat. Anyways, to get back on topic, when I was at Weimar, we had a big organic farm there. It was interesting to see the food at the source, long before it becomes the finished, shiny, perfect product in the produce aisle. For example, the carrots that had one top would often have 7 or 8 roots shooting off of them. They looked kind of mutant! But the corn, good grief, the corn! Every single blessed ear had a worm along the top. They'd eat down maybe 1 or 2 inches. I remember thinking that even after washing, "here I sit, eating corn that had a bunch of worm poop on it." How is that healthy? | ||
| Pauls Registered user Username: Pauls Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2005 |
I want to touch on this alcohol issue from a different perspective--i have alcholics on both sides of my parent's past--and am an adult child of alcoholic...as such, there are issues inside me that manifest themselves in addictive or warped thinking/behaviors. These I am identifying and working on...however, the beast of alcohol lies just under my skin, waiting for fuel....by the grace of God I have not been sucked in and destroyed by it as many of my friends and some of my family have....but to completely protect myself i have had to swear off completely. From this perspective, and i share this concern with my friends from AA, it is very hard to attend a social gathering where alcohol is consumed. So while the Bible may not forbid moderate drinking, your freedom could become a stumbling blcok to those like myself who struggle with an alcoholic past. I think Paul addresses this in 1 Cor 8:9-13. there are many changes in life that we all make to accomodate those we love. Since I got married, I sold my street bike, gave up dreams of ever scuba diving, and as my wife suffers from fibromyalgia, i gave up backpacking and rock climbing in favor of road trips that involve lots of sitting and driving (this is hard as i am a hyper active person!). but that is the price of being a part of a social group. I can't say i like it always, but i do choose to live with it for the good of another. and i think that is the choice we have to make...not to set an example or be an influence in a direction that might cause harm to our weaker brother....this would not necessarily require complete abstinence--but careful planning so that it is not a public display. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 288 Registered: 2-2001 |
Pauls, I see where you are coming from. I have diabetics on both sides of my family both granddads and father dead from too much sugar. My sister who is 42, diabetic. Does Pauls plea also cover brownies and ice-cream? I am not being fliped, just trying to sort out the demons of my family. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1952 Registered: 3-2004  |
Pauls, I can really identify with you as I belong to a 12 step program for an eating disorder. It was this program that taught me about how much God cares for me and cleared my head of much of the SDA cobwebs. Violet, I am a "sugarholic". That is why I am in a 12 step program. So, I would think Pauls plea would cover anything with sugar in it for those who have problems with it. As for myself, I tell people to eat what they want, when they are with me, as I have had this problem for years and it does not bother me what they eat. I have to tell all of you, that on my cruise, God really helped me with this problem. I did not over eat and I did eat deserts, but would leave half of it there and I did not want more and this is continuing since I returned. THANK YOU GOD. YOU ARE AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 289 Registered: 2-2001 |
Flying Lady Praise God that He has helped you so much. I guess the responses leave me in confussion. God gives some the power to resist and others He does not. How can anyone know what they can and cannot do as we do not know what the others weakness is? As for myself I practice moderation in public and private. I don't hide the wine bottles when company comes over, just like I don't hide the cake. On the reverse I would have a glass of wine in public just as I would order a piece of cheese cake. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 314 Registered: 7-2004  |
Violet, I would agree with you. We all have to maintain a certain level of responsibility for both the limitations of ourselves and others. I think the main responsibility we have to others is to respect their decisions without catering to every particular idiosyncracy (meaning don't try to coerce them to be like me and don't try to overtly tempt them to have something they feel is not best for them) and also to not flaunt what we do or don't consume. It's a private decision and should be respected as such, from either direction. |
