| Author | Message | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2005 |
I have been venturing out lately to kiddie birthday parties and other activities on Sabbath; yesterday I went shopping with hubby and the kids, then went to a BBQ at my neighbors. Since I am still not grounded in this new freedom and I still don't have a church, everytime I do something against the SDA rules, I feel funny and not quite myself. At the party yesterday, I put a small piece of pork on my plate but I really couldn't eat it, I guess I have quite an aversion to it ; the funny thing is there was an older guy who stood next to me and said he couldn't eat pork 'cause it bothered his stomach, then I was sitting next to a girl who said she couldn't eat pork either, I asked her why and she said she was of Muslim background (though she didn't practice the religion anymore). Anyways, these were 2 people I'd just met who wouldn't eat pork and there I was with pork on my plate that I just couldn't eat. Is the devil playing tricks or is this just coincidence? It isn't like I really want to eat pork but I figured why not try it? I do have a glass of wine occassionally and feel a bit guilty too. Anyone still having trouble with these things? | ||
| Blacksheep Registered user Username: Blacksheep Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Olga, What you are experiancing is very common, and it's okay too! I very rarely eat any "unclean foods" I have tried! Pork steak is the awfulest tasting stuff ever!! I can handle a small taste of bacon occasionally. I am now married to a man who was never an SDA, and he has learned to eat vegetarian pizza and actually prefers them to a meat pizza. I cook a little meat, but most of what I cook is vegetarian. The unclean meat thing will probably be with you always. But these days (as you already experianced) it is common for people to not eat pork, and it is accepted to be a vegetarian. It is ok! | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2005 |
Olga, Satan cannot play games with your mind, he cannot read your mind, he can only deceive you. Jesus Reigns! Lynne | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 |
OLGA I ABSOLUTELY IDENTIFY WITH YOU! I READ YOUR LAST POST WITH SMILES AND NODS. I ALSO AM NOT IN A REGULAR CHURCH AND ON SATURDAY I MUST SAY THAT I AM STILL....WELL I AM AWARE THAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SABBATH. TO BE HONEST THE LIFESTYLE I LIVE MEANS THAT I LIVE MANY OF MY DAYS AS IF IT WERE SABBATH JUST BY WAY OF MY QUIET LIFESTYLE AND EXTREMELY DIMINSHED TELEVISION VIEWING. I HAVE THE ODD DRINK AND AM WONDERING IF I AM DIS-PLEASING GOD BECAUSE I AM AWARE THAT I COULD HAVE A WEAKNESS FOR DRINK WHICH I KNOW GOD HAS UNDER CONTROL AS I DO NOT REALLY DESIRE DRINK AS I USED TO. I FEEL LIKE A YOYO, LIKE I HAVE LOST MY MIND CONCERNING THE THINGS OF GOD AND THAT I AM BEING TOSSED TO AND FRO WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE. I AM SCARED TO CALL MY PARENTS OF LATE BECAUSE I REALISED IN LATE OCTOBER WHEN I WAS WITH THEM THAT THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED THAT I HAVE LEFT SDA AND I WAS TOLD "DONT SAY YOU HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH" IT WAS LIKE "DON'T SAY YOU BELONG TO SATAN" BEFORE THIS I HAD SPOKEN ON THE PHONE TO BOTH OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY AND TOLD THEM OF MY DECISION SO IT CAME AS A COMPLETE SURPRISE TO ME WHEN IN CONVERSATION I CASUALLY SAID "EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH" AND GOT THE REACTION THAT I GOT AS IF IT WAS THE FIRST TIME THEY WERE HEARING. THEY ARE STAUNCH ADVENTISTS AND MY FATHER IS HEAD ELDER AT THEIR CHURCH. I REMEMBER 1 SATURDAY SPENDING THE DAY IN MY FRIENDS CAR AS HE RAN SOME ERRANDS AND I DID NOT KNOW WHETHER I WAS WRONG OR RIGHT TO BE FREE. I HAD SLIGHT GUILT AND THOUGHT AM I TAKING ADVANTAGE OF MY LIBERATION IN CHRIST? ALL I DID WAS SIT IN HIS CAR {BUT I DID GO AND BUY A DRINK AND SANDWICH TOO} THIS FRIDAY NIGHT GONE WHEN IT GOT TO 4PM I WAS AWARE THAT SABBATH WAS IN. I AM VISITING A FRIEND AND TV WAS ON AND I HAD JUST FINISHED WATCHING SOME ADVENTIST GUY ALL AFTERNOON TO SEE WHAT HE IS SAYING ABOUT THE BEASTS AND KINGDOMS AND DRAGONS AND HORNS AND MARKS AND ALL THE OTHER ADVENTISMS AND HOW THEY RELATE TO CATHOLICISM. CAN ANYONE HELP ME TO DECIDE IF I SHOULD WRITE A LETTER TO MY PARENTS OR JUST LEAVE IT AS IT IS? ALSO PLEASE ARE THERE ANY FAF'S IN LONDON/UK I COULD REALLY USE SOME CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP WITH PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND MY PLIGHT. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2004 |
Olga, Understanding Grace and accepting spiritual freedom can be very challenging. Many of the things legalism asks us to do are good, they are just done for the wrong reasons.Like you, the thought of eating pork, squid, octapus and the like does not appeal to me, and probably never will. I'm not a big fan of onions either.That being said, I no longer feel that eating these things, or not, effects my spiritual life, or walk with God. Please remember Christian freedom is not a Fraternity House where we have to perform an initiation(ie. pork, etc...) we are not comfortable with or find repulsive. I have found the study of Romans 14 especially helpful on this topic. God accepts you either way. Our backgrounds contribute to who we are, and to what makes us unique and special. The Bible is very clear on issues of right and wrong, however is gives us great latitude on issues that do not matter, or are morally neutral. For now Big Franks and Grillers are just fine with me. Gastronomically immature, Randy | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2004 |
Anotherseeker, I fully understand your challenge. I am 46 y/o and still found it stressful as I spoke to my parent regarding my decision this week. I found that writing it all down in a letter allowed me to focus on what I wanted to say and gave me the opportunity to back up my reasons with Scripure. It also allows them the opportunity to review and reflect. If you are interested, I posted my letter in this discussion section a week ago. This week I get to share my decision with my 93 y/o grandmother. Please pray for her. Randy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2071 Registered: 3-2004  |
Anotherseeker, My leaving the SDA church was relatively easy, so I cannot really identify with you, but I can pray for you. I have put you on my prayer list. God is holding you and will not let you go. Just pray and read your Bible and pray some more. Jesus is all you need. Randyg, I have put you and your grandmother on my prayer list also. God is holding each of you in His awesome hands. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 708 Registered: 1-2003 |
Anotherseeker...I found after leaving SDAism, that the things I had been taught about God were not true. There were many bible verses that the SDA never showed us...and I never thought to read them for myself. I began attending Weigh Down Workshop on Sat. afternoon at my SDA church and Gwen Shambling, the creator of the program, was giving verse after verse that I had never heard and quite frankly I couldn't believe my ears. Have you ever read Deuteronomy 14? That one blew me away. I had heard a sermon on tithing based on Deut. 14, but the guy had only posted part of it on the overhead...and you know most SDA don't come to church with bibles...so who knew...if you read it in it's entirety, God tells the people who live too far to bring their crops or livestock in, to sell it for money, buy whatever gets the party started, wine, strong drink, food...and celebrate before the Lord. Hardly the God I had been told about by the SDA. Also, if you read the example of how God wanted to metaphorically treat Isreal, after she went whoring and he found her bloody in a ditch...it also blows your mind...he wanted to adorn her with the finest clothes, put a ring in her nose, other jewelry...not the God I was told about. I think as you start to study...you will find that the SDA have God placed neatly in "their" little theology box to fit what they think He should be. I found through study, that they have grossly misrepresented who God really is. Good luck...I know how you feel...I often have doubts too!!! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3018 Registered: 12-2003  |
Anotherseeker, the situation with your parents is difficult; I don't mean this glibly whan I say, ask God to give you His widom and the mind of Christ to know how to proceed with them. Remember that Paul said, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16). God will give you His authority and confidence to speak to your parents without fear. When you are following Jesus, you will take the arrows for Him, but He calls us to be bold and courageous through the power of His Spirit. Here's a prayer from Ephesians for you, "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:16-17). Immerse yourself in the Bible, and pray for God to reveal Himself and His truth to you through its words. That is where you will find the stability of truth and reality. I know there are some former Adventists in the UK, but I don't know of any who meet together. Perhaps if any of them read this forum and are interested in meeting others, they could post and make themselves known! Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 164 Registered: 4-2005 |
Olga dear, You have nothing to prove to anyone! Eating pork or shrimp or drinking alcohol doesn't prove anything! These things are not a test you must pass to varify that you are now "in Christ" and the freedom of His Gospel. Read prayer/carefully Rom 14. Compare it with Mark 7:17-19. The Hebrew word for wine is "yayin" meaning to effervesce; wine as fermented. Ps. 104:15 "yayin" is used for wine that maketh the heart glad or merry. In 1 Tim 5:23 the Greek "oinos" comes from the Heb "yayin" Jn 2 - when Jesus turned the water into wine, it is the same word used, with the same meaning. Jesus made real wine, not Welches. You need not drink wine or eat the Ceremonial law's identification of unclean meats or not worship on Saturday to prove to yourself or to anyone else that you are Saved in Christ! Whenever these negative emotions and feelings of guilt and fear seep into your heart, first acknowledge that what you are experieicing is just a mental repeat habit; that these thoughts and feelings are not true reality but only projections of distorted thinking, invalid thinking. Then thank God you are free in Christ, relax and do what your mood or taste buds suggest and thank God for it! Dance your freedom dance. Away with all the "what ifs?" and "should's" and "ought to's." Jess | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2005 |
Randyg, I liked your letter and if ok with you I might use portions of it w/my family when the time feels right to discuss my leaving the church (I'll probably have to translate to Spanish). | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2005 |
Anotherseeker, I so much feel what you are going through; I too feel scared about talking to my parents and sometimes feel maybe I shouldn't do it especially since both aren't in good health and I fear adding a burden. I do also have the doubts and sometimes feel too like "I AM BEING TOSSED TO AND FRO WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE." One thing that helps me is to go back to Bible verses that are reassuring of God's leading and his wisdom that can be ours for the asking (there's such a verse in James, I have to look it up for you). | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2005 |
Anotherseeker, Here's the verse I mentioned in my last post: James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2005 |
Anotherseeker, Sorry, here's another favorite verse that is very reassuring at this time. Hope it helps you too! Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. ********************************************* God bless you and may he give you His wisdom and His words. Olga | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2005 |
Where do i begin!! I Thank Randyg, Flyinglady, Olga, Pheeki and Colleen for your response to my last post. I am avoiding ringing my parents now through {embarrasing} fear. I am embarrased and ashamed because God HAS NOT given us the Spirit of fear but of power and of love and of a sound mind. What heightens it is that i was abused for the first 19years of my life by my Adventist Mother and have spent my whole life endeavouring to recover from this battering i got as a child. I do not work due to a messed up life because of this and i DESPERATELY want to have a career like everyone else. I have musical talent that my parents and everyone i know says i should use but i am struggling to escape from the prison of my mind and the 16 years battle with depression/obssessive behaviour e.t.c As a child i was VERY bright and was always asked to take part in AY as my Mum used to make me MEMORISE poems to recite in morning and afternoon services. I was never asked whether or not i wanted to do it I WAS TOLD and of course i was terrified of her anyway and the relationship did not lend itself to freedom of speech Used to be given psalms to learn from Sun - to Thur to be repeated in Thursday night worship. One particular time i was beaten when i got a word wrong in the Psalm after being warned that as much would happen if i got 1 wrong word. My point is: no career and now NO CHURCH of course they will see me as going downhill!! The Lord however is my light AND my Salvation who shall i fear?? I am NOT going down i am being LIFTED UP!! I must admit i feel as if i have no quality of life but i have to hang on to the fact that I HAVE JESUS and NOW i am being led into the liberty i have been needing my entire life. Bless God i got a call tonight from a guy that got baptised a couple months before me and he admitted to me that HE ALSO has left SDA. PRAISE JEHOVAH!! NOW I HAVE A UK BUDDY to de-program with. I e-mailed him this site just now so i am sure he will take a look in the next day or so. How important is it that i get my name removed/or talk to my Pastor? Also does anyone know of Walter Veith?? If so any thoughts? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2076 Registered: 3-2004 |
Anotherseeker, I have a half brother and sister whom my mother raised. She mistreated them in may ways and she professed SDA Christianity. She withheld food from them and did other evil, awful things. They left home as soon as they were able. I have another sister who is my sister as we have the same mother, but not the same father. Mom ruined her life by rescuing her from any problems and now she is doing the same to her daughter. So I can identify to a certain degree with you. My human feeling is that you do not owe your parents a thing. Pray about it and pray some more. The oldest sister, we have the same Dad, has used me to process what my Mom did to her and her brother. He died in 1987. I had to learn things about my Mom that were not pleasant, but to help my sister, I listened. I listened because my other sister had told me, before I spoke to my oldest sister, things about our mother that I did not know about. So when what my oldest sister told me, I had heard about some of them. She confirmed what the other sister told me. The reason I am telling you this is because the oldest sister feels so free now that she has freed herself of all the garbage in her head. She has a changed personality. Even her daughters and grandchildren see the difference in her. She does not want to acknowledge that God has led her, but I know that and I tell God thank you. God is showing her what his purpose is for her and she does not know it is God. Now that God has a hold of you, He will show you what He wants you to do. He has a purpose for you and it is special, just for you. He will heal you like he has my sister. Colleen is so right when she says God redeems all our past. Amen and Thank you God. You are so awesome. I am so glad to hear you have a UK buddy with which to deprogram. God answered your prayers. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3030 Registered: 12-2003 |
Anotherseeker, I completely understsand your predicament. At the risk of ringing "old bells", I'd like to suggest that you immerse yourself in Psalm 27óespecailly verse 10: "Though my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will receive me." An abusive parent actually forfeits their "rights" to be a parent. Have you spent any time talking with a Christian counselor/psychologist about your situation? You need to understand that despite what a parent may TELL you, if she is abusive, she does not actually love you. Abuse is not love. Many times we grow up believing certain painful things are "love" because we are told we're loved while abuse is perpetrated. Then we have problems relating in healthy ways to other people, because we always expect "the other shoe to drop". We expect to be rejected and hurt, and sometimes we push people away before they hurt us--thus confusing and profoundly hurting them! Jesus wastes nothing that has happened to us, and He redeems everything we submit to Him. Ask God to help you know the things you need to know, to stay grounded in truth and reality, and to heal in the ways you need to heal. Ask Him to show you what you need to surrender to Him in order for His redemptive touch to bring wholeness to the broken places in your heart. Because you now know Jesus, He has taken the place of "parent" in your life. You no longer have to feel obligated to be available to your abusive parent; Jesus Himself is now taking the place as the nurturer and healer of your heart. In order to recover from the past, you must separate yourself from the source of the evil that formerly misused you. Jesus will guide you; ask Him to bring into your life the people you need in order to help you grow and heal. And praise God for your new UK buddy! Colleen | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2005 |
Flyinglady, i was touched yesterday when i read that you had added me to your prayer list,i nearly cried. Here you are AGAIN embracing my situation and offering support. THANKYOU. Colleen, i realise that you are an INTEGRAL part of FAF. You and your family and team have undertaken your cross to follow Christ. Because you did people like myself and Flying Lady, Olga Pheeki, Randyg and ALL the others are blessed to have this forum which is an OASIS in the weary transitional land "recovering from spiritual bondage,scripture twisting, puffed up ego's,denominational specialness" e.t.c I got my username in August but at that time my PC {MYSTERIOUSLY}BROKE after my friend had been on it. {a computer expert at that} after i was BLESSED with this lap-top i still took a while before my first posting which was only a few weeks ago I had to give FAF a rest because i used to be on here till 4/5am reading stories and doing the bible studies e.t.c. I WAS OBSSESSED!! I am beginning to realise that this process of having to leave church is WAY MORE than i anticipated but i regret it not! I had to stop reading the information against SDA for a SEASON and now i am back in another season where i feel more united due to being involved in this forum. You have become my new family,its a shame that you are all in the US. I have a safe place to talk and share and be myself which is something that my childhood and Adventism restricts. Colleen: my parents live nearly 3 hours drive from me and i see them once or twice a year and ring as much as i am able to manage. The calls have gotten a lot easier in the last few years but i had to really WORK AT IT as they were not really reciprocating. I had slipped into a lifestyle that they would not have approved of and i had nothing in common with them and felt that i could not talk to them. When i used to ring, Mum was frosty and it was like getting blood out of a stone trying to have some semblance of a conversation. Not so now though. People used to say just "forget them" they do not care but i used to say "they are my parents". There is a much bigger picture to this story which is that they adopted me at birth which makes it worst as far as i am concerned. You know.... yesterday after my last post i felt a little guilty sharing my life on the forum and a slight concern that someone that knows me would read it and identify me and my parents finding out. The chances of that are VERY SLIM i know but the enemy wants to shut me up AGAIN just like i did my whole childhood. I have that slight anxiety now AGAIN as i reveal more, but i will continue When a child is CHOSEN you would think that EXTRA special care would be given to that gift but not in my case. DONT GET ME WRONG NOW. Materially,educationally e.t.c. i got more than most but i do sometimes question the motives. The piano,violin,singing,orchestra's e.t.c. i wanted to do and i see that The Lord used it as my escape emotionally. BUT... now i am expected to show the fruits of it but because of the abuse i stumbled and fell a long time ago. Its only after i left home that i realised that i had been affected and that was YEARS after that i began to realise this. I did the promiscuous "looking for physical affection" thing because i longed for touch not associated with beating{i now realise} Then i slipped into drugs because i was so innocent and loved a certain type of music that was in the clubs at that time and drugs helped the enjoyment of it and made me feel better than i had ever felt before in my life. I did this unsolicited by friends, i used to go out alone and met a drug-dealer in a club 1 night who eventually gave me a freebie{THE DEVIL IS A LIAR} and i was hooked Thats a WHOLE OTHER EPISODE which lasted a few years but no serious damage done. THEN..... i became a lesbian until The Lord delivered me after he called me in 2003. And that is ANOTHER EPISODE of unbelievable horrible situations that i got into and nearly even took my life one night after being rejected by someone that i thought would never leave me I had never been so hurt and i was drinking heavily and smoking cannabis to block the pain. To this day my parents dont know i was a lesbian. This is why Adventism cannot cut it for me cause i want to jump and shout IF I WANT TO and praise him FREELY and share my testimony which i was told by the Bible worker that i must not tell anyone else. FATHER GOD SHUT MY MOUTH NOW PLEASE!!!! HAHA. I have alot more to say but i think i should take a break. Colleen there were times after a particularly bad punishment that she would say sorry and that she loved me but i could not receive it as i did not know what love was. She used to tell me what to tell the nurse in emergency when she injured me a couple of times to the point that she could not do a HOME patch up job. Stitches were neccessary. I said exactly what she told me to say each time to make her life easy. Oh Lord forgive me for posting this, you know my heart and that i have forgiven her. I hope that my talking about it is not a sign of going backwards in my healing. If it is will someone PLEASE PLEASE tell me so. DO NOT SPARE MY FEELINGS. Look out for next post. My head is becoming a mess and i realise that this post is ALL OVER THE PLACE but that is the way my mind works. SORRY | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2001 |
Anotherseeker, I'm so sorry for your pain. I know in my own situation, it has been very freeing to me to realize that God will vindicate me in His time and everything will be justified for me in the end. Isn't that a cool thought? God DOES understand and He DOES know everything and one day He will straighten it all out and they will know and understand how we felt and how what they did affected our lives. I think ultimately that is what we want, to be understood, to be heard, and it will happen. You talk all you want to and when you get it all out you can start healing knowing that Jesus is the best attorney ever and He has heard your case and will vindicate you. Blessings and prayers, Sabra | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thankyou and GOD BLESS YOU Sabra. Thankyou | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2078 Registered: 3-2004 |
Anotherseeker, I am so glad you shared about yourself. You are not alone and we do accept you, whatever your background is. Jesus, most importantly, accepts you because you love Him. My Mom treated my half sister and her brother very cruelly. I do not know what else she did to my other sister besides not letting her grow up and rescuing her from her own problems. That is not good for anyone. So I can understand to a certain degree what you went through as a child and what you are going through as an adult. God has used me to help my half sister process everything that happened to her and her brother as children and adults. My Mom treated them so badly, that my brother tried to commit suicide at the age of 9. That was before I was born. His sister told me about it. We both cried about that. Another thing my Mom did was take the only picture my sister and her brother had of their mother and tore it up and burned it in front of them. She gave them the ashes and said, there is your Mother. We cried about this also. I thank God He put me in my sister's life to help her process all her past. I tell you these things to let you know that I do understand to a certain degree because of things that happened to my family. As for your parents, Colleen is right that an abusive parent forfeits the right to be a parent. You owe your parents nothing. Not a thing. God will provide family for you in ways that are so amazing and awesome. Share whatever you want to share. We will love and accept you. God is a awesome God and will supply our needs. Diana | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2005 |
Another Seeker, What courage it takes to tell your story openly. My story is similar, and also different, but I understand pain from childhood. I wanted to share some thoughts I have had recently regarding a study of John I have been doing. Two verses have stayed in my mind for over two months now. I am still amazed at the freedom this has given me from past issues... Iíll try to describe my response to GODS truth: Yet to ALL who RECIEVED him, to those who BELIEVED In his name, HE GAVE the right to BECOME children of GODóchildren born NOT of NATURAL DESCENT, nor of HUMAN DECISION, or a husbandís WILL, BUT BORN OF GOD. John 1:12-13 NIV This text has spoken to me in so many ways. The first thing that stood out was the v13. There are two different birthsówith a distinct time line SEPARATING them! The first the human birth. The second the spiritual birth! * NOT OF HUMAN DECISION: This spoke to me of Life and Origin: When we are born again, we LEAVE BEHIND the baggage of our first birth! It doesnít matter if we were planned, or wanted, adopted, ignored, abandoned or whatever the circumstances of our birth! All THE LEGACY OF SIN, abuse, compulsive behaviors, mental illness, family disgrace__ALL the role models of dysfunction in our families, are history! We die to the human blood line and its legacy and power in our life. We are free to become children of God. Itís a totally new beginning! * BORN OF GOD: When we accept Christ, we are born of the HOLY SPIRIT. We are WANTED, planned before time, LOVED unconditionally. Our legacy is Holiness, Purity, Righteousness in Christ, VICTORY. Our role model is Christ! We are children of the KING. * NOT OF HUMAN DESCENT: This spoke to me regarding hope as a parent. My child is not condemned or ìpredisposed" to live out my failings and shortcomings. When my child accepts Christ, he is also a new creature, not of human descent. He is able to shed the legacy of generations of sin. He is my child, but he has a Superior Parent! He is protected in ways that I cannot protect him. He is loved in ways that I cannot love Him. He is accepted always. His purpose is not how he can fulfill meóor vicariously meets my needs. I get my needs met through Christ; therefore I can love him with Christís love. I can watch in awe as God fulfills HIS purpose through my child. * TO ALL WHO RECEIVE HIM: This spoke to me of how I treat others: I see my true brothers and sisters. I have an instant bond and shared heritage with millions past and present! I treat these brothers and sisters differently. I have more compassion for those who have not experienced this new life. I have patience, because I know they cannot possibly understand. I donít judge based on externals and non-essentials, things that are irrelevant to the Kingdom. I respect and embrace others of all cultures, socioeconomic status, church membership etc. as children of the King! * BORN OF GOD: This spoke to me of death: I have accepted Christ; therefore I have already died in the flesh! Since there canít be two of me existing at once, the old has died. The flesh legacy has died. There is no reason to fear death in the earthly shell, I have already experienced that and moved into a new and better birth and LIFE! It begins at the moment I accept Christ, and I contine to Grow until God calls me home, and his timing is perfect! Meditating on these verses has begun to change the way I view my past, present, and future. Being a child of the KING, has benefits too rich to write in words. I pray sincerely for you that you will continue to discover the richness and freedom found in the the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! I have needed to soak in this new identity for awhile, get grounded, established, and secure in the truths of God's word, before I could move forward in dealing with my parents. The Holy Spirit will let you know when you are ready! JavaGirl 4excape@bellsouth.net | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3035 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, thank you for your insightful post. Anotherseeker, you are welcome here, and honesty will not cause you to regress. It is so important to take all these things to Jesus, to ask Him to ground you in truth and reality, to ask Him to heal your heart and to help you act with integrity. It's so hard to learn the difference between "enabling" an abusive parent and honoring a parent. In reality, if a person has been abusive and there has been no repentance, pretending that one has a relationship with them is probably not honest. Part of healing is stating the truth and admitting the consequences. In many cases, perpetuating a relationship with an abuser makes the situation worse, especially if you are still vulnerable. God was with you through all the awfulness of your life, and He is now calling you to Himself so He can redeem your past and create amazing new strengths out of your wounds. Only Jesus can do this miracle, but He is faithful. Cling to Him. Colleen | ||
| Dinolf Registered user Username: Dinolf Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 |
I had a discussion recently with a SDA pastor about how SDA doctrines and rules can give guilt when realizing not able to reach up to the standards. Maybe he got a point that there must be a balance between thruths and etics. But in general I feel that SDA pastors are not trained to deal with councelling when there is guiltfeelings about doctrines. I once listened to Philip Yancey. After the meeting I asked him to sign my book "the Jesus I never new". When asing him what he knew about SDA-people he said he did¥nt know much exept that they where struggeling with rules about coffie and food-rules. Can one say that the Jesus known by SDA¥s gives more guilt, when not reaching the standards, than he gives freedom and happieness? /D | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3041 Registered: 12-2003 |
I think, Dinolf, that Adventists might think the guilt they feel over rules they can't keep well is from Jesus, but in reality it is from the source of the "doctrines of demons" they believe to be truth. As always with cultish religions, Jesus is misrepresented. Adventism is no exception. The "Adventist" Jesus might be thought to be the source of the guilt, but guilt over things that are not truth is not from God. What a distraction away from reality and knowing Jesus: to be caught up in food rules and Sabbath-keeping practices and suffering "guilt" over them! These things keep people from knowing the real Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 455 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have known a particular historic Seventh-day Adventist woman for many years who gave me her original copy of Ellen White's "Counsels On Diet and Foods". The pages dealing with tea and caffeine are tattered and worn, most of the paragraphs are highlighted, and there are copious notes written by this particular woman on several of the pages. Her mother is English and has tea several times a day. It has been a tremendous source of guilt and struggle for this woman for decades. Every time she is in her mother's presence, she feels tempted to imbibe in this "most injurious poison". Most of the time she gives in. Then she struggles with the guilt, shame, and condemnation because of what was written in that book. She's English, for goodness sake! A proper English lady who does not drink tea is like a Russian patriot who does not drink Vodka. She has tried to "kick" tea in order to achieve a higher level of holiness, but has not done so. She carries tremedous guilt and shame and mentions giving up tea nearly every time she talks about those things she can do to improve her walk with the Lord. Meanwhile, she is one of the most angry, bitter, verbally abusive women I have ever had the (dis)pleasure of encountering. Her own children cannot bear to be in her presence. Two have not spoken directly to her in years. In this woman's eyes, tea is one of her biggest problems, yet she will not even acknowledge - much less do anything about - her lifetime of verbal abuse and bitter rage. I see this as a classic example of straining out gnats while swallowing camels. I have found it to be a key identifying feature of those enmeshed in cultic historic Seventh-day Adventism. | ||
| Dennisrainwater Registered user Username: Dennisrainwater Post Number: 125 Registered: 8-2000 |
Dinolf - It's nice to bump into you over here... ;-) And I can relate to what you posted! And along that vein, I've had numerous similar conversations with a certain English SDA pastor -- and for a while, he really did ALMOST get it... :-( I sometimes wish I could revisit those days -- knowing what I know now, of course... JavaGirl! Thank you so much for what you posted above!! I am struggling once again with some issues arising from my SDA childhood, and specifically, how some very poor parenting combined with SDA distortions to plant some tares in my life that I am yet trying to uproot. What you pointed out was so freeing!! It is so liberating to be reminded that I've been BORN AGAIN -- and that a profound part of that is a SEPARATING from those hurtful and twisted pieces of my past that still occasionally entangle me like brambles. The existence which remains snagged by those issues -- however painful and confounding -- is merely of the flesh! BUT, the part of me that is BORN THE SECOND TIME, and that will LIVE ETERNALLY is born of The Spirit, and is FOREVER FREE from all such entanglements!! :-D So long as I wrestle with 'this body of death', and still live in the flesh, I will often be reminded of those old hang-ups... But PRAISE GOD -- the eternal part of me is a 'child' who belongs solely to the perfect parentage of God Himself, and I can look forward to an existence utterly free from the influence of that pain and confusion!! So thank you for that perspective! It cast a new light on an old problem, and suddenly I am seeing it in a way I've never thought of before!! You go, Girl!!! :-) AnotherSeeker - My heart breaks for you. Welcome to a wonderful place to share and enter into relationship with others who can understand at least a part of what you're feeling. I know it's only a 'virtual' connection, but these folks are terrific, and you will find abundant love and acceptance from them. I am so glad that you've also found someone there in Britain that is on the same path you are -- it is refreshing to be able to talk face-to-face to a companion who understands where you're at... BTW, some of your story brought back some happy memories for me -- I met my wife back around 1990 at Newbold College, where she was a music major! I have so many fond memories attached to very special spots around London and Windsor and Bracknell, etc... Merry Christmas -- and God bless us, every one! Den <>< denrainwater@bellsouth.net | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 604 Registered: 7-2004 |
Anotherseeker, I am slow in seeing your testimony above. I grieve with you and mourn all the losses that you have experienced. I am sickend along with you at the abuse you lived with. It is obvious to me that you are a very generous woman. You have absolutely no reason to feel regretful for sharing your feelings. Our Savior WANTS us to come to Him and find rest. We can only find rest when we surrender all the grief, lonliness, suffering... I love the beautiful message of Isaiah 61:3,4: "I will bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendour. They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations." Satan is actively and progressively pedaling the demoralization of us. He uses our backgrounds/histories to destroy not only our physicial and mental well-beings, he wants to seperate us from our King. He wants to convince us that we are no longer fit to have honor and dignity. He knows how effective and influential Christian women can be and so he works through society to convince us we are so much less than we are! The Crown of beauty in its original meaning is an ornamental headdress like a crown or a wedding veil. The original term is derived from the Hebrew word pa'ar, meaning "to gleam...to explain oneself...to beautify" The kind of headdress a woman wore explained who she was. In Isaiah 61, the crown of beauty is symbolic of an elaborate ornament identifying a woman as both bride and queen. In ancient days, the only way a woman could be queen was to be married to the king. Isaiah 61 protrays God blowing away the ashes of mourning and replacing them with a crown. Not just any crown. A crown identifying the woman as the bride of the King!!! WE ARE THE BRIDE OF THE BOOK OF ISAIAH'S PRINCE OF PEACE!!! Isaiah 61:10 -- "I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For He has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels." This is how Christ sees us! I also believe this is how Satan sees us, too. He just doesn't want us to know it - He wants to deceive us into believing we are so much less than we are. He knows we will act like who we think we are. No matter what has happened to us in our past - what we have done, where we have been -- WE ARE BRIDES!!! It is high time we see ourselves as we really are! I am so glad that you have found your way to FAF, Anotherseeker. It is my firm belief that all of us did not just happen to stumble upon this forum! God has a plan for all of us to grow in Him, to be beautiful in Him and He has provided a safe haven for all of us to grow together in Him. What I have shared with you above is from a Beth Moore Bible study, "Breaking Free, Making Liberty in Christ a Reality in Life". I would highly recommend this study course for all former adventists and I especially recommend it to those who have painful, abusive histories. It is a rich study designed to help us move from pain to abundant life as God intended. Beth uses Scripture to point out the benefits of our relationship with God and shows us how to remove those painful obstacles in our past that hinder us from knowing and believing God, finding satisfaction and peace in Him and most of all keep us from enjoying God's presence in our lives. Anotherseeker, I, too, am an adoptee who has struggled with the same feelings of inadequacies that you have mentioned. The more I learn of God and learn of my own self-worth in Him, the more I see the redemptive love of God. He will renew and restore all that you have lost. You are in my prayers and love in Christ, Denise | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3079 Registered: 12-2003 |
Denise, thank you for sharing the idea that Satan also sees us as brides of Christ--but he doesn't want us to know that truth about ourselves. That is such a helpful insight. He is the great deceiver at all levels. Our identity in Christ, when we have surrendered to Him, is our only true identity. All the other shameful things our thoughts remind us of are temptations to embrace our brokenness instead of our true position as God's adopted sons and daughters. Learning to live by the Spirit involves learning to stay rooted in truth and reality instead of in our own confusion of thoughts, memories, and shame. Saying "yes" to Jesus moment by moment and giving thanks to Him keeps us from wallowing in our trials and wounding. Surrendering our memories and fears to Him and submitting to His discipline and instruction is the key to knowing who we really are. I'm so thankful that Jesus redeems our pasts! Colleen |
