| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2005 |
The more I think of some of the terminology I have been brainwashed with, the more incensed I become. For example the same Adventist denomination that so piously calls themselves the "Remnant Church", a title reserved for God to decide, has the nerve to call other parts of the body of Christ "Apostate Protestantism" -- such nerve! And where do they place Baptists who were not part of the Protestant Reformation (they like to try and identify with), but herald all the way back to John the Baptist? Since they aren't "protestants" where do Adventists place them? Adventists are so preoccupied with the Seventh-day Sabbath, over all other articles of faith, it makes me sick. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 849 Registered: 7-2004 |
I feel your pain. Here is another wonderful word that they have coined to describe all the rest of Christianity that is not SDA: Babylonish Babylon means confusion, and that term so aptly belongs with Adventism. The only thing we can do is continue to pray for them, individually and collectively, and to speak the truth in season and to pray that the words fall on listening ears. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2159 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jorgfe and Belva, Oh, do I understand both those terms and what you are feeling. I am so glad God took me away from all that. I am so glad all I concentrate on is my relationship with Jesus Christ now and telling others what God has done for me. Then He gives me the words to say. What more can we ask for. Thank You God. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2005 |
Amen!! "What to say, Lord? It's You who gave me life And I can't explain just how How much You mean to me Now that You would save me, Lord I give all that I am to You That every day I can Be a light that shines Your name Be a light that shines Your name Every day, Lord I'll learn to stand upon Your Word And pray that I That I might come to know you more That You would guide me In every step I take, Lord That every day I can Be a light unto the world Every day, It's You I'll live for Every day, I'll follow after You Every day, I'll walk with You, my Lord It's You I live for every day..." Every Day, by Phillips, Craig and Dean (Let Your Glory Fall) | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2005 |
It is the deception that is so difficult for me. It not only angers me for myself, but for so many people that are still being deceived by this church. Those who attend, those who have left the church with the core adventist teachings in them, and for those newly going into the church. It makes you angry when you know you were brainwashed and deceived and you know others are still suffering the same way you did under this cult. And they did it to people more than 100 years ago and have continued. I'm so grateful to now be removed from the adventist church. But learning what the bible really says hasn't been, nor is it going to be a fast transition. It really is the devils doctrine and I believed it.* Going from who I was and what I learned in the adventist church to who God wants me to be is sometimes difficult. But thank God He is always here with me and I'm not left on my own. He does comfort me and Jesus gave me so much more than the Adventist church or Sabbath ever could. *Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2005 |
Recently I visited a baptist church and have a very strange feeling, even if I don't beleive that Babylon thing. IThat church I have visited some time ago, even seven times, but now, that I know that my church is a false church, I don't feel at home in these churches. It's very strange because before discovering the facts about adventism, I have no problem, but now it's expected to enjoy the christian fellowship. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 719 Registered: 1-2003 |
When I attend...I attend at a Southern Baptist church...and I love it there. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jackob, I've visited a strange baptist church once and a strange adventist church once. One of the strangest was with all white people and my husband and I are a mixed race couple. Believe me, it did not feel good there. I was an adventist and I married a baptist. The churches we attended, baptist and adventist often were similar in spirit it seemed. The different adventist and baptist churches we attended varied greatly depending on the culture of the surrounding environment. Churches are made up of people and some churches have different cultures (leaning toward particular races, mindsets, more concervative, liberal, or just plain weird it may seem to you, etc.) in them. I would just suggest you move on and don't take it personal. Perhaps you are changing. I've been in many places that felt very much like babylon at times and not that way at other times for years now. I think I'm adapting to reality a little more every day. It is probably cultural and not babylonish. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3139 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lynne, you make a good point about adapting to reality a little more every day. Lydell has often said, on this site, that while it may be quite normal to feel uncomfortable at a "sunday" church at first, still we must decide to particiapte in worship with the body of Christ whether or not we feel "comfortable". I believe she's right. Or course, there are some churches that really are unhealthy. I believe God directs us as we ask Him to help us find the church where He knows we can learn and grow. Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2005 |
I have been attending a church that i like alot i always come away being blessed by the message. what is a liitle unerving to me is that they have slushies and popcorn in the lobby and you can even take them into the auditoruim to hear the sermon. anyone else have slushies?? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 723 Registered: 1-2003 |
I attended a church like that...it was very different...they had all kinds of food and drink set up and allowed it in the sanctuary (gym). I actually prefer a gym to a sanctuary...I don't know exactly why...maybe it doesn't feel so much like "church". Know what I mean? | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1237 Registered: 7-2003  |
I would rather have slushies and popcorn than coffee and donuts myself. :-) We can't take them into the sanctuary, though. We used to do "signups" to take something for breakfast in my baptist church ... donuts or bagels or something easy to eat with one hand and the Bible in the other during Sunday School. It was a great idea because we all had young kids, and though you make sure they get fed, it's hard to take the extra time for yourself. I've been to churches that have little cafes, it's not yet comfortable to me, though I realize they're put there as a convenience. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 400 Registered: 7-2004  |
It is funny you say that Pheeki, my experience is just the opposite. In so many cases we have attended churches where the contemporary services are relegated to the gym while the traditional service uses a "real" sanctuary that I often feel like those of us who like contemporary service styles are somehow 2nd class. It is refreshing to see how differently our experiences manifest themselves in our preferences upon leaving SDAism. After living so long in such a narrowly defined world of what is acceptable, the freedom to reach such different conclusions is amazing. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thanks Lynne, you are right, I'm changing and this makes the things look strange sometime. I lived under the dictatorship of Ceausescu here in Romania, and expected very much in 1989 when it falled down, but the liberty the romanian people enjoy now is not like we dreamed in this year. The people are still very poor, we have a very high rate of emigration, and nobody knows if tomorrow will have means to make a living. This could be a comparision with the leaving of adventist regime. Many people becomes unbelievers, and many are "liberated" from adventism and never find a home church. In the last number of Proclamation! it is a very interesting statement by by Dr. McBride. He said that we must accept the fact that no church is perfect and we, former adventist which have been taught that the church can do everything for us have a coloured perception. I'm curios how you former escape this trap, and accept this fact. I don't think about minor points, but about major points. Stan, how do you find a church which preaches the sovereign grace of God? I mean, not a church which put the sinner in the position of deciding his eternal destiny. Let me explain. After adventism I suspect that even the churches which sustain that believe in grace, don't understand the fact that adventism is a cult. They don't understand the new covenant, and have a transfer theology about the Sabbath. I have serious doubts that a church who don't consider the SDA a cult understand the gospel. When I was an ardent adventist believer I don't believe my church was a cult because I don't understand the gospel. I have only a shadow of the gospel. But today here in Romania the baptist churches have good relations with the sda church. Even if they reject the Sabbath, they don't consider sda church a cult, just another church. How do you think about this situation? It's essential or nonessential? It's too much to expect from a church to understand where I come from, and what really my former sda church is? | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 401 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jackob, some cases of churches and people not understanding that SDAism is a cult with a false gospel may have more to do with being fooled by the evangelical sounding statements made by SDAs than by not understanding the Gospel. You are correct that a number of churches teach a transfer theology about the sabbath. And a number of churches are also fixated on tithing as a requirement. My advice is to focus first on what the church has to say about the Gospel, both as organizational beliefs and as individual pastors. We attended churches after leaving SDAism where we were in agreement with the stated beliefs about the Gospel, but found that what was preached from the pulpit didn't always align with the belief statements. If the church's beliefs and the pastor's presentation of the Gospel is true and clear, I can look past other non-essentials. After much searching we have finally settled into a church where the doctrine, pastor, and other local church leaders are focused on the Gospel. The pastor doesn't think that SDAs are that different than any other Christians who are too legalistic. At first I had a real urge to set him straight about just how cultic SDAism truly is. I was quickly convinced that such a discussion could wait. Right now is a good time for us to settle in and learn about worshipping as grace-focused believers. Even if another church understands that SDAism is cultic promoting a false gospel based on a false prophet, they still can not understand the experience of coming out of that background. I know that, at least for our family, the focus of learning from our new church family and understanding what can be is more important right now than having others understand where we have been. That is one of the values in having a board like this, it gives us a chance to "talk" with those who do understand. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 348 Registered: 7-2004  |
I think a lot of churches consider the SDA's just another church because they don't understand how unique the SDA teachings really are. The problem is not necessarily that the non-SDA church doesn't understand the gospel, but the problem is more likely because SDA's are really good at having different definitions than other churches, and everyone assumes they're okay when they're not. Most people's perception of SDA's is they are normal (but conservative) Christians except that they consider the Sabbath and diet important. At first, I thought it was important for a church to understand where I came from, but more lately, I'm just thankful to be in a church that clearly presents the gospel every week. The best I can tell, our pastor thinks it's better to be accepting of all fellow-Christians, and seems to think SDA's belong in that category. We haven't bothered to enlighten him much at this point. Maybe we would if there was regular interaction between that church and the SDA church. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 349 Registered: 7-2004 |
Oops-didn't see my husband (Ric_b) was posting the same time I was! Guess I'll have to look back and see if we contradict each other! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3149 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amazing, Raven--you and Rick sound remarkably agreed! Good points. Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 173 Registered: 10-2005 |
Raven and Ric_b - It is about lack of education. I added to a recent thread I posted yesterday some paragraphs from an article that tells the truth about adventist cults and so called sects - The Move Away From Legalism. I believe if people in other churches had this basic understanding, they wouldn't be deceived by the the SDA church. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2164 Registered: 3-2004 |
At my church the pastor for seniors thought SDAs are just another Christian church. I prayed about it and this Sept took our pastor some of the books written by former SDAs and told him about me being a former SDA. He listened very well, asked some questions and asked me if I could serve as a reference for anyone who wanted to know about leaving the SDA church. He mentioned that in his seminary studies, he did not see anything about SDAs being a cult. When I told him about EGW and her hold on the church and her influence on the doctrine(the IJ, Sabbath) he seemed surprised. I hope he read the books. All I can do is pray that God will open his eyes and the eyes of the other pastors in the church. I met a family of one of my patients today, who are familiar with the cult aspect of SDAs. I want to talk with them some more about this. I am just SO glad that God took me and all of us out of that church and brought us to Him. He will not let go of us. Diana | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1145 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jackob, I just saw your post with your question. Since you are in Romania, it could be difficult to find a church that preaches the true gospel of grace as taught by Reformation faith in the line of Luther and Calvin. Are there any conservative Lutheran churches in your area? Conservative Lutheranism such as Missouri synod does hold to Luther's doctrine of monergistic regeneration, as do conservative Presbyterian and other Reformed denominations. What part of Romania are you in? Maybe I could do a little research for you to help you find a church who really believes in the Reformation doctrine of Sola Gratia, or salvation by grace alone. In the meantime I would like to suggest a web site that you might enjoy if you have not discovered it already, and that is www.monergism.com At this site you can have a terrific study of Reformed faith and be fed spiritually as well. I would also recommend the Spurgeon archive www.spurgeon.org Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1146 Registered: 3-2005 |
One thing I have found interesting about my journey out of Adventism, is that they do have a lot of teachings that have a lot of truth in them, but they are mixed with dangerous errors. For example, there is a true remnant church chosen by grace as Romans 11:5,6 clearly teach where it says that there is a remnant chosen by grace, for if by works, grace would no longer be grace. The definition of the true church of Jesus Christ is the total body of believers who are trusting in Christ alone for salvation, and this is true believers from all denominations. SDAs twist this to narrow it down to those who would keep the Sabbath as an addition to belief in Christ, which is another gospel. There is also a definite group out there that should be classified as apostate Protestantism. Adventism is correct in identifying Catholicism as a Babylonian, false, religious system. All the Reformers and great heroes of the faith such as Spurgeon, Luther, and Calvin also believed this. This doctrine is not unique to Adventism. Then what do you make of all those who claim to be true evangelicals now clearly compromising with the Babylonian works-righteousness system of Catholicism? Then there are the millions who follow after the likes of Benny Hinn and T.D. Jakes. (Jakes is a modalist who denies the doctrine of the Trinity, and also Philips, Craig, and Dean are in this category.) So there is still such a thing as apostate protestantism that we need to be on guard against. One important reason other churches don't view SDA as a false gospel is the fact they are already compromised by the false gospel of Rome, which is the prototypical works-righteousness system, but somehow Rome is viewed as just another Christian religion, so, in comparison SDA on the surface doesn't look so bad to them unless of course they start peeling away the layers of the onion and find the real truth. Stan | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 127 Registered: 6-2005 |
Ric and Raven, your similar posts made me smile! Pheeki, I love worshipping in a Auditorium, and wearing Jeans! And sipping coffee! I have had to QUIT focusing on the smaller issues in my search for a church home. I was getting too frustrated. Im sure its the Adventist mentality that we have to "Get it all right", "Do it the right way" and that only one way is right, and the other wrong. I was so distracted in church by the minor issues that I couldnt worship. I really think it is the work of the devil to distract us any way he can, so that we will not WORSHIP GOD, which he cant stand. When my thoughts wonder to something other than worship or revelation in church, I use the "Get thee behind me Satan" approach, and then I am able to worship. Im getting ready to take an Alpha course, which I believe is basically a christianity 101 course. (I have to put aside my "remnant" pride, and start over with the basics, and be open to learning from others). I hope to meet some other believers on a more personal level. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3166 Registered: 12-2003 |
JavaGirl, thank you for your honest, incisive post. I agree with you. I've had to put aside my "critical spirit" and ask God to help me worship Him, to place me where He knows I need to be to grow, and to let the unity of the Spirit draw me into fellowship with others with whose specific non-central doctrinal understandings I might disagree, but with whom I share the love of Jesus and mutual support. He grows us all in His time! Colleen |
