| Author | Message | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 369 Registered: 1-2003  |
I know I'm not up to speed on discusssions here but I didn't notice any comments on the LA Times front page article (Column One) about the city of Loma Linda published yesterday. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/columnone/la-me-lomalinda7jan07,1,923659.story?coll=la-headlines-columnone Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 182 Registered: 10-2005 |
Richard, Some of you live in Loma Linda, I only passed it occasionally on the freeway when I lived in California. They always make a point to get positive health statistics in articles. The hospital sounds good and always has. Mental health statistics are never mentioned. Low crime rate? Or is that just hidden? Forecasting Armageddon, Prophetess Ellen White, 1844 Miller, peculiar.... "In everybody's mind, Loma Linda has a great reputation. But there's also something mysterious about it to everybody." Does anyone here know what that is? True article? Yes and no. Lynne | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 132 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi Richard, good to see you. I have been praying for you and your wife and Annie regularly. JavaGirl | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 96 Registered: 12-2004 |
Richard, It is very good to hear from you again. Thank-you for the article. Randy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3168 Registered: 12-2003  |
Interesting article. It's true that Loma Linda politics are held tightly by the Adventist "force". The Adventists do hold the government in their grip, but the city population is probably about one half non-Adventist. Ironically, the town has a signficant number of Catholics and a fairly large Catholic church in townóSt. Joseph the Worker. The mother of the young patient quoted at the end of the article is by no means representative of most patients. Many people find the hospital care to be impersonal and seriously neglectful. The hospital also has alarming morbidity rates for some services, especially for some types of surgical cases. They also have a fairly low rating for cardiac care; the Catholic hospital in San Bernardino is much perferrable if one has a heart attack, for example. I also know several never-been-Adventist Christian physicians who have left Loma Lindaósome even moving across the country to become established in successful practices of their sub-specialtiesóbecause they were squeezed out of their positions at Loma Linda by the Adventist powers-that-be that ran the individual medical practices. As we have noted previously re: Adventism, there is a powerful PR machine that colors the public's perception of Loma Linda and the denomination in general. What you see is not what, upon close inpsection, you actually get. Colleen | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 370 Registered: 1-2003 |
To those who posted thanks for your words of welcome. Life has been very busy and the occasional emails I have gotten have been much appreciated. A couple of them have arrived with divine precision and a sentence or specific word that was written was a blessing that spoke directly to what was happening in my life. So for each of you who have taken the time to write THANKS from my heart. In Christ, Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1158 Registered: 3-2005 |
Richard, welcome back! I have one question for you, How did you get that link to work? I could have never been able to type all those characters correctly. (smiley) Thanks for the article. Stan | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 550 Registered: 4-2000  |
I noticed that the LA Times article reported that Loma Linda has a growing former Adventist population. I subscribe to the free Google Alert service that gives me a daily report of SDA happenings worldwide. Thus, I was able to read the article in the LA Times yesterday before payment was required to access it. Usually after a day or two, the newspapers typically charge a fee to access their archives. Regarding the much-publicized SDA health study, I am wondering how scientific this study really is. For example, I know the questions asked are very thorough and time-consuming to answer. It appears to me that they are depending on SDA volunteers to participate in this study that may require up to two hours to fill out. I have many carnivorous Adventist friends and relatives that would never even think of filling out a lengthy form about diet and health. This is a part of Adventism they do not buy. This leaves the zealous Adventists, who are more likely to be vegetarian, to participate in this study. Therefore, how accurate can this study be without the input of meat-eating Adventists as well? I realize that many carnivorous Adventists are participating in this study; however, what about the large segment of that group who do not reverence the so-called "health message"? I am strictly referring to a subgroup of SDA meat-eaters who would never use their time to fill out lengthy health-related questionnaires (unlike the typical participants who want their church to really look good from this study). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2005 |
Salt Lake City is a nice peaceful beautiful place to. What does that have to do with anything when truth is concerned? Many cult communities are peaceful and quiet and OPRESSED AND TWISTED. I live in peaceful beautiful Seattle area full of the unchurched and worshipers of themselves... LBD | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1159 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen, As an alumnus of LLu med school, I am interested in what you are saying about the quality of cardiac care at LLUMC. Do you have some data or hospital ratings regarding this? The chief of cardiology at Loma Linda is a personal friend of mine, and took great care of my mother and father when they were there. I would be a little hard pressed to criticize the quality of medical care at my alma mater, but I am open to any objective data you might have. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1160 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dennis, you are right about the Adventist health study being highly questionable. You could take any group of Christians who don't smoke and you would come up with the same good numbers. This health study is just another form of idolatry in my opinion, so that they can brag about their lifestyle. Stan | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1241 Registered: 7-2003  |
Dennis, I also wonder about what the SDA health study proves. From my understanding, they are comparing SDA vegetarians to the population at large, which at best proves the population at large has a poor diet. But to "prove" vegetarianism is the end-all, be-all answer to longevity, it would seem to me they would need two identical population groups who eat the same thing with the exception of one group also including meat. Then, and it would seem to me ONLY then, can you reasonably conclude anything about the presence of meat in a diet. I suppose you could even refine it further and limit unclean/clean meat eaters next to vegetarians. But with the wide variety of diets in the general population, I'm not sure how you can compare someone who eats MacDonalds 24/7 to someone who eats any variety of non-fast food diet. It would be interesting if they would segregate a group such as mormons in their study as well, but I suspect they aren't interested in finding out that it is not the absence of meat that enhances their supposed longevity. I did find it interesting the comparison to mormons....both are a kind of segregationists. A couple of quotes struck me: "Adventists' interest in healthcare stems from the belief that "the physical body is spiritually significant," " and "Built upon Calvinistic Protestant roots, Adventism distinguished itself with Saturday worship, belief in Christ's imminent Second Coming, or advent, and rigorous guidelines for daily living, including dietary restrictions and conservative dress." Very interesting.... Call me skeptical. But 3 of my 4 grandparents lived an average of 6 years longer (without expensive drugs and ailments) than EGW in spite of her supposed health message and all exceeded national average. And that proves what, exactly? He who dies with the most days "wins"? | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 185 Registered: 10-2005 |
Heredity contributes to living a long life as well. I've been blessed with good genes when it comes to my meat eating relatives living long lives. Weight is a factor as well. I noticed my relatives that lived longest were mostly thin, they didn't eat too much. Common sense tells us that we would never see a study paid for, for example, by the wine industry, proving there is something negative in drinking wine. We are in a world full of deception. We should prayerfully seek the guildance of the Holy Spirit every day to protect ourselves from deception. It just isn't in our fallen nature to have common sense. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3173 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good questions, Melissa. Stan, the cardiac data I got from a news story Richard found not long ago. I can't remember where--I'll see if I can track it down. They rated LLU's cardiac care nationally with other hospitals, and it was low on the list. Regarding the morbidity data--we got that from a retired surgeon we both know who transferred his practice from Loma Linda to St Bernardine's hospital years ago. He told us statistics from having sat on the tumor board, etc. Yes, there are some cardiologists who are excellent; my MIL had wonderful care from the doctor to whom you refer above, Stan, in the mid-90's when she was in CICU with myocarditis. Aside from specific doctors, however, there are apparently other factors that render the general cardiac care less desirable than other hospitals. I don't think what I'm about to say is by any means limited to Loma Linda, but I do know that after follolwing my MIL's illness in the 90s, my father's serious pneumonia in the late 90's (at LLUMC), and my MIL's recent hospitalization last year with another bout of myocarditis, I'm convinced that unless a family member makes it his/ her business to be at the hospital when rounds are done, no matter how long one must wait or what time rounds happen, unless a family member is more or less "in the faces" (in a nice way) with the direct-care nurses and the on-call residents on the service, the patient's needs and condition can actually fall between the cracks. Because of my dad's experience with a hospitalist when he was in with serious pneumonia, Stan, I've developed a deep respect for the knowledge of disease processes and the willingness to explain and instruct the family that hospital-based doctors seem often to have. I completely understand why you would choose a hospital-based practice. My dad's hospitalist was one of the most thorough and helpful doctors I've ever encountered. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2171 Registered: 3-2004  |
My Mom was at LLUMC before she died. Her doctor wanted to send her home early. My mom refused to be fed with a PEG tube as she knew she was dying and that is when the doctor wanted to send her home. My sister and brother in law had to tell the doctor that if our mother died prematurely there would be a lawsuit. They kept her. I had called and emailed for a hospital chaplain to visit our Mom, while she was in the hospital and they never did visit her. She had asked me to ask the chaplains for a visit. My sister had some other complaints about our Mom's stay at LLUMC. I do not remember all of them. My sister was supposed to have written a letter to the Medical Board there. So, I have only this things I know personally about LLUMC. I have had people I met here, who have been in LLUMC tell me that it is a very good place. Diana | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 316 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks for the link. I have been out for a while--broke my right arm and was in a cast from hand to above my elbow--hard to type like that. The part that grabbed my attention was the "church's emphasis on free will" and that they support invididual choice on abortion! It seems kind of crazy that they will not put a pork chop in thier mouth but will kill a baby! Help me with this one! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1161 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks for those insights Colleen. It has been 30 years since I graduated, so a lot has changed. Violet, welcome back. I agree with you on the abortion issue. It is a disgrace that LLUMC has never taken a pro-life stand on this issue, and their GYN residents have been taught to do abortions. The Catholics are much more honorable in this regard. Stan | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 407 Registered: 7-2004  |
oops double post. (Message edited by ric_b on January 09, 2006) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 408 Registered: 7-2004 |
If you are looking for objective data on Hospital Quality data try www.healthgrades.com. LLU didn't fare well in the ratings compared to many of the surrounding facilities when comparing heart attack mortality rates 30 and 180 days post stay. The data presented by Healthgrades is adjusted for patient population and acuity. The "rating" for each facility is based on the actual mortality compared to the expected (based on patient population characteristics). |
