| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2005 |
Since I have a 10-year old son who loves Jesus, and understands God's grace and the importance of the Holy Spirit in his life, I thought it would be interesting to see what the current Seventh-day Adventist Sabbath School Lesson Quarterly teaches about Grace and the role of the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant. This is the age where the groundwork is being laid for this level of abstract thinking. These results are from the Teachers Quarterly which includes the text of the lessons given to the Juniors & Earliteens. Here are my findings: http://sspm.gc.adventist.org/ss/ (Sabbath School and Personal Ministries, GC) http://powerpoints.adventist.org/ (Junior/Earliteen Sabbath School Lessons) "Welcome to PowerPoints about Godís grace. Godís grace is power. Itís the unlimited, for-sure, forever power that finds you, forgives you, and fills you up with everything you need to live a full and wonderful life in Him." ==== Grace: God Offers Himself For Us (1-4)==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson1.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 1} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson2.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 2} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson3.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 3} (http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson4.pdf) Page 35, "Before prayer explain to the students that when they feel the call of God, or the prompting of His Holy Spirit, they should respond. Encourage them to do so during a few moments of silence you provide after the main prayer." ==== Worship: We Respond To God's Great Love (5-8)==== (http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson5.pdf) Page 45, "Holy Spirit" (crossword puzzle entry) Page 47, "Ask the Holy Spirit to show your students the importance of baptism as a way to depend on Godís love and grace toward them and to depend on God for help in making good choices." (http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson6.pdf) Page 50, "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19, 20, NIV). (power text) Page 50, "The students will respond by giving their whole lives - body, mind, and spirit - to Jesus." Page 50, "We have the responsibility of caring for these bodies of ours. God Himself wants to live in us through the Holy Spirit. We care for our bodies by living healthfully. This includes a healthy diet, exercise, proper rest, trust in God, and abstaining from harmful substances such as alcohol, cigarettes, and harmful drugs. John the Baptist is an example of a simple lifestyle." Page 54 - "We are called to worship God by living a healthy and balanced lifestyle. Our power text says: ìDo you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodyî (1 Corinthians 6:19, 20, NIV). Today we are studying about our awesome body temple." Page 54 - "Ask: What did you find? (God lives in us by the Holy Spirit. We are not our own; we were bought with a price. God is preparing us to live with Him.)" Page 58 - "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19, 20, NIV). (power text) Page 58 - "The principle is this,î John started slowly, staring into the calm water of the Jordan where the young man had been baptized. "Your body, your heart, your mindóyou have given all of yourself to God now. Imagine that you are a special place for the Spirit of God, that you are a tabernacle or a temple. What do you think that principle would tell you about how to take care of yourself?" Page 59 - "As John watched the young man climb up from the Jordan riverbed toward his home, he thanked God for the straight path the Spirit had into another heart temple." Page 59 - "Ask God to send His Holy Spirit to make the changes you need to make to care for your body temple." Page 60 - "Before going to bed, look over your NEWSTART sheet. What is the Holy Spirit changing in you? What did you learn about yourself this week? Be prepared to share what you learned at Sabbath School tomorrow." http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson7.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 7} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson8.pdf Page 68 - "This is a lesson about worship. We worship God when we keep our bodies and minds free from mind-altering substances. Herod, who had been impressed with Johnís preaching, could not respond to Godís spirit while he was drunk." Page 72 - "When our consciousness is affected by these substances, it is more difficult for us to ìhearî the Holy Spirit speaking to our minds." ==== Community: We Treat One Another With Respect (9-12) ==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson9.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 9} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson10.pdf Page 89 - Suggested Songs "Spirit Song" (He Is Our Song, No. 72) Page 90 - "What or who makes the truth stick? John 16:13 (the Holy Spirit)" http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson11.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 11} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson12.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 12} ==== Grace In Action: Sharing Forgiveness (13)==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2006/Teacher/EnglishTG/PPLTGQ106lesson13.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 13} Gilbert | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3215 Registered: 12-2003  |
Again, I am so horrified at the twisting of the importance of the indwelling Holy Spirit and what that means and making instead an opportunity to teach lifestyle and diet. These are NOT the issues, and they're not related to the new birth. In fact, in Adventism the significance of the indwelling Holy Spirit really doesn't address the "new birth" or becoming a new creature and an adopted child of God. In Adventism, the Holy Spirit is about power to keep the law and a reason to practice the "health message". I realize I've probably summed this situation up rather cryptically, but bottom line, the only ways I remember hearing about the Holy Spirit as an Adventist were these: the reason I must practice the health message, the source of power to become perfect or righteous, the source of the "latter rain" before Jesus returns for which I must pray. I do remember reading a book by Dennis Cooper (an Adventist) in the mid-80's and being convicted that the Holy Spirit was a promise of God and that He would make me a new person--but I do not remember ever hearing this message from any "official" Adventist source or hearing it discussed. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2196 Registered: 3-2004  |
Like you, Colleen, I do not remember anyone in SS, church school, or the preacher talking about the Holy Spirit except for him to help me become a perfect Adventist and even then that was to be under my own power and works rather than with the help of the Holy Spirit. I am amazed that I even believed that at one time. Thank God I have been lifted out of that and know that I need only Jesus. Diana | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 238 Registered: 2-2005 |
Growing up in the church I remember hearing many prayers asking for God to send the Holy Spirit to help with whatever the order of the day was and my wife and I even did it ourselves regularly. It wasn't until after leaving the church that I realized that we didn't need to keep asking God to "send" the HS because, being in Christ, He dwells in us always! How awesome is that?! It's so refreshing to hear this preached regularly from the pulpit and in Sunday School but I suppose it really does make sense that this isn't the norm in an SDA setting when you really think about it. If one gets too comfortable with the idea of the Spirit indwelling you and bringing you into alignment with God's will, the Law and some of the church's unique distinctives may lose relevance. Couldn't have that, now. Heretic (Message edited by Heretic on January 14, 2006) | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 208 Registered: 10-2005 |
I wasn't raised in the church. Before I went to the SDA church I started reading the bible and started watching Christian television shows like Charles Stanley and It is Written (thought they were the same). I gave my heart to Christ and felt the Holy Spirit in me. I started going to the SDA church and felt comfortable with it sometimes and I worked with somebody who was Adventist. I went to potlucks after church and many of the people were nice to me. But now as I look back, as I continued to go to church, there were things that bothered me. I do not remember hearing much, if at all about the Holy Spirit. But I do remember going to many of the studies on Daniel, the Great Controversy, satan carrying our sins, etc. And what I remember mostly was the holistic view of spirituality taught. How important it is for you to have a healthy mind, body and spirit. That if you neglect one, such as eating healthy, your body wont be healthy. And if your body isn't healthy then your mind won't be healthy and you won't think clearly and you won't be able to interpret the bible. And if you don't eat well, you won't feel well, so you won't be in good spiritual health. Sounds so Ellen White to me now. But at the time, I just saw the logic. I don't think the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can remain in a true Adventist. It would violate the doctrine, the doctrine is not from God. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2005 |
It is also very disappointing to see how they can't even make it through a single lesson without quoting Ellen White. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, and it has been interesting living with a 1-1/2 million population where 50% of the people (Mormons) can't do anything without quoting Joseph Smith. The similarities are hard to avoid. Even the Salt Lake Tribune will publish articles about people "desecrating" the Sabbath (Sunday in their case) by driving on a nearby scenic "Alpine Loop" drive in the fall. They are as bad as the Adventists about the "edges of the Sabbath". For example, they will actually go out at 12:01 am Monday morning (in the middle of the night) to start cutting hay. At Brigham Young University they go into fits if the BYU games aren't over by midnight Saturday. Heaven forbid. And since the 4th of July (and a number of other holidays) fell on Sunday this past year, they moved them all to Saturday so, for example, the 4th of July was actaully celebrated on the 3rd of July. The non-Mormons and many municipalities still celebrated on the 4th as well so it was rather amusing. I grew up as a kid at Andrews University (little New Jerusalem), and life here in the Land'o Zion is very similar. As I think about it, isn't Sabbath/Sunday School and Church supposed to be for all believers. Since most Christians don't believe that Ellen White is inspired, why quote her in the material that is given out to the public for lesson study? If everything that she states is in the Bible then just stick to the Bible. Gilbert | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2005 |
Here is a most amazing article coming out of the Adventist Review. I don't quite know what to make of it. http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1522/story4.html We need more people with a vision like this Pastor. I notice that they also have a women pastor. Cool. Miracle Temple Worship Center http://www.miracletemple.net/index.php http://www.miracletemple.net/article.php?id=3 It is too bad they have the traditional Ellen White Belief Statement. We can't get to radical. Unfortunate. http://www.miracletemple.net/article.php?id=12 Gilbert (Message edited by jorgfe on January 14, 2006) | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2005 |
Here are the references to the Holy Spirit in the 4th Quarter 2005 Teacher's Quarterly. I also including the frightening Ellen White indoctrination that they lay on thick in lesson 14. The viewpoint expressed on page 100 is also rather strange. http://sspm.gc.adventist.org/ss/ (Sabbath School and Personal Ministries, GC) http://powerpoints.adventist.org/ (Junior/Earliteen Sabbath School Lessons) "Welcome to PowerPoints about Godís grace. Godís grace is power. Itís the unlimited, for-sure, forever power that finds you, forgives you, and fills you up with everything you need to live a full and wonderful life in Him." ==== Community: We Discover God's Purpose For Our Lives (1-4)==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson1.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 1} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson2.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 2} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson3.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 3} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson4.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 4} ==== Service: Jesus Lived To Bless Others (5-8)==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson5.pdf Page 45, "And every youth who follows Christís example of faithfulness and obedience in His lowly home may claim those words spoken of Him by the Father through the Holy Spirit, ìBehold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delightethî (Isaiah 42:1)." http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson6.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 6} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson7.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 7} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson8.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 8} ==== Grace: God Gave Himself To Us (9-12) ==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson9.pdf Page 92 - "Yes, thatís very true," Mother agreed. "But Godís plan to save us didnít start there. God and Jesus were closely knit from the very beginning. Together, with the Holy Spirit, they created the world and the people who live there." http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson10.pdf Page 94 - "Joseph is to be married to Mary, but when she tells him she is pregnant, he plans to quietly break the relationship off. But then he is given divine instructions not to be afraid to take the risk of marrying her, since her child has been conceived from the Holy Spirit." Page 100 - "(Remind your students that Jesus, while on this earth, lived as a human being, and He knew only what the Holy Spirit was able to communicate with Him through the Scripture and through nature. Even though He "knew" He would make the sacrifice for our sins, He didnít "feel" as if He could ever be reunited with God while He was bearing the weight of our sins. See The Desire of Ages, pp. 753, 754.)" Page 102 - "Finally Joseph drifted off to sleep, his thoughts still focused on the one he loved. ìDonít worry, Joseph,î the angel said to him in a dream. ìGo ahead and get married. Mary has done nothing wrong. Itís true that she is pregnant. But she is still a virgin. And the baby she is having was given to her through the power of the Holy Spirit. She is going to give birth to the Messiah! When the baby is born, name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins." http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson11.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 11} http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson12.pdf {No reference to the Holy Spirit in Lesson 12} ==== Grace In Action: God's Grace Blesses Us (13-14)==== http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson13.pdf Page 126 - "The students will know that Godís commandments describe what life is like in His kingdom of love. (They will) feel willing to have the Holy Spirit prepare them to be citizens of this kingdom." Page 126 - "As we love, study, and try to serve God, these commandments, laws, or truth about God and His kingdom are being written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit. We are being changed into citizens of heaven right now." Page 127 - "God, through His grace, His truth, and the work of His Holy Spirit, transforms us into citizens of heaven." Page 127 - "It is here that this work is to be accomplished for us, here that our bodies and spirits are to be fitted for immortalityî (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, pp. 355, 356) Page 130 - "Encourage students to pray for the leadership in their countries here on earth, and also for strength and courage to be good citizens here on earth. But encourage them, as well, to begin praying for God, through His Holy Spirit, to be preparing them for citizenship in heaven." Page 131 - "If we give Him permission, God, through the Holy Spirit, writes His law of love in our hearts right now, preparing us to be citizens of the kingdom of heaven as we live and grow in grace here on earth." Page 133 - "He wants to begin changing us now, writing His law on our hearts, teaching us a better way. He does that through His Holy Spirit as we pray and study His Word." Page 133 - "He asks us to read the Bible, pray, get to know Him better, and give His Holy Spirit permission to change our lives from the inside out." Page 134 - "Have the students fold the paper to make a ìpassport.î The cover should say ìPassportî and ìKingdom of Heaven.î They may also want to create a symbol for the cover. Inside, have the students draw a small picture of themselves and write their name, address, and birth date on one page. On the other, have them copy John 14:15 and Revelation 14:12. (ìHere are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. This week, plan to share with someone specific the fact that they can choose to let the Holy Spirit prepare them for their citizenship in heaven right now. Show them your passport. Letís remember that right now." http://powerpoints.adventist.org/2005/Teacher/LTGQ4/LTGQ4_Lesson14.pdf Page 140 - "Welcome students at the door. Ask how their week has beenówhat theyíre pleased/troubled about. Ask if anyone stood in an open place to feel the breeze, or if anyone created a song, poem, or collage about the Holy Spirit during their Bible study time during the week." ---- Ellen White Indoctrination For Junior/Earliteens ---- Page 138 - "Objectives - The students will: Know that God has given humanity a special gift through which He can communicate with His people. Feel grateful for Godís special attempts to communicate with His children. Respond by having an increased respect for the Spirit of Prophecy." Page 138 - "Our power text tells us that God never does anything big that affects all of humanity without telling His children what He is doing. As a church we are especially blessed by the special gift of the Spirit of Prophecy. At times when His people need Him most, God intervenes to guide and direct them. Through this gift God gives specific guidance for the end-time and help to face the difficult times in which we live." Page 138 - "The Spirit of Prophecy is Godís special gift to the church today." Page 139 - "After I came out of vision, everything looked changed; a gloom was spread over all that I beheld. Oh, how dark this world looked to me. I wept when I found myself here, and felt homesick. . . . I told the view to our little band in Portland, who then fully believed it to be of God. That was a powerful time. . . . About one week after this the Lord gave me another view and showed me the trials I must pass through, and that I must go and relate to others what He had revealed to me, and that I should meet with great opposition and suffer anguish of spirit by going. But said the angel, ëThe grace of God is sufficient for you; He will hold you up. (Early Writings, p. 20)." Page 139 - "What effect does Godís gift of the Spirit of Prophecy have in my life? How am I willing to ask God to open my heart and mind more fully to the blessings of His special gift?" Page 140 - "Just as you couldnít see through the bag to identify everything correctly, itís not easy to understand everything about God, because we canít talk with Him face to face. But God has given us a special gift to help usóthe Spirit of Prophecy." Page 140 - "Our power point this week is: The Spirit of Prophecy is Godís special gift to the church today." Page 141 - "Sometimes we find it hard to know what God wants us to do. To help us, God has given us the Spirit of Prophecy. Just as the light behind the screen gives us silhouettes, which allow us to see a clear outline of the person behind the screen, the Spirit of Prophecy lights the Bible so we can understand God better." Page 141 - "Our power point this week is: The Spirit of Prophecy is Godís special gift to the church today." The Seventh-day Adventist Church is a huge mission field. We need to pray earnestly that the children that are exposed to this type of sophistry will not fall for it. Gilbert (Message edited by jorgfe on January 14, 2006) (Message edited by jorgfe on January 14, 2006) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2198 Registered: 3-2004 |
I was at my younger sister's house yesterday. She babysits two or her grandchildren every Saturday. They are 4 and 6. They wanted me to read them a story so my sister brought out an old SDA book, "Bedtime Stories". I chose very carefully the stories I read to them and if I had to, left some words out. Then I decided to tell stories that I had heard, leaving stuff out that was adventist. I finally told the kids stories of when my sister and I were younger. The children's other grandparents are Mormon and they go to church with them every Sunday. My sister still is hooked into adventism, though she does not practice it and does not believe everything it teaches. So I pray for my sister and her grandchildren along with the rest of my family and all SDAs. Yes, the children are very important and need much prayer. One day when they are older they will have the cognitive dissonance and start studying the Bible and only the Bible. Diana | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 415 Registered: 7-2000 |
The Review article is just another sign of how desperate the SDA church is too stem the tide of dying churches. I have talked with the three SDA pastors that I know several times about this. Every one of them is frustrated, and none of them can figure out the reasons why. If you point out the legalism of the church, along with the problem of EGW they defend her or claim that she's not necessary. They just can't see that EGW, along with the legalism inherent within Adventism, is a poison. It kills the spiritual life. So, the white churces are dying out and are being replaced in many places by Hispanic ones. Which is interesting as I'm seeing polar opposite Hispanic congregations. One the one hand,many of the Hispanic congregations are so hyper conservative that they resemble the JW's. They don't celebrate any of the holidays and are sticklers for following EGW. The other pole are congregations that try to follow the Bible very closely and minimize EGW, and their services are almost Pentecostal in style. I'm beginning to think that the Hispanic congregations are going to repeat the history of the white congregations. They grow, then split into warring 'celebration' vs 'conservative' camps and then begin to decline. The next few years are going to be interesting too watch. | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ive seen what your talking about LV,We lived in TN for a year near Laurel Brook boy do the strange folks seem to flock there and who suffers but the kids,we went to a home made camp meeting with some of the folks there my husband was scared of these people,no holy spirit there at all!! most of the kids that I know who have left Laurel Brook also leave Jesus.Dawn just though Id say one thing just a little FYI my nickname used to be wolfgang1844. Thankyou Lord Im moving on | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2005 |
The SDA obsession with diet and control of the appetite to be fit for heaven is the other gospel that Paul warned us against. There is no other conclusion. Consider the fact that all of those that first heard and practiced the Health Message with EGW and crowd are now dead. I would like to hear how they are better fitted for heaven/salvation than those Christians that died 100 years prior to EGW, or even Paul or the thief on the cross. What is heaven going to be like with all those people running around that haven't learned to control their appetites? Sorry, this whole discussion with SDA's just irritates me. DT | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dt - I'm sorry if I irritated you with this thread. You bring out some good points. My reason for posting this is that currently I am not attending any church fellowship because of resistance within the family to the idea of going to a "Sunday-keeping Church". With the Holy Spirit's leading things are moving at a reasonable pace in that direction. This sort of transition does not happen overnight, and preserving respect for all family members in their rate of spiritual conviction is important as well. I would supect that I am not alone in that. The seed has been planted and watered. Thanks to a post in these forums we also wathed the video about the Worldwide Church of God. Currently we are studying Clay Pecks excellent studies on the New Covenent. I have a 10-year old son who I would really like to be a part of a group of children his age within some type of spiritual fellowship. He undestands the dissonance between the truth and what the official Seventh-day Adventist dogma teaches. My 25-year-old daughter is currently the Pathfinder director there. At the same time she does not "buy" most of the questionable theology. My wife is also beginning to see the cracks in what we have been taught. We are 5th and 6th generation Adventists as well. A number of Adventist churches are lead by pastors that do not support the non-biblical teachings espoused by the General Conference. Assuming this might be a consideration, I was examining what sort of propaganda is currently being disseminated in Sabbath School Class. Three possibilities existed for the type of material that might be presented in the Primary/Earliteens group - 1) biblical sound, 2) neutral, 3) false doctrine. At one time I was a children's teacher there and at that time the material seemed "neutral". The review that I did above clearly indicated to me, at least, that the propaganda is anything but neutral or biblical. The central role of the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant Christian's life is totally absent and a toxic amount of false doctrine is mingled in about Ellen White as a "gift", the excusive position of the SDA church as the remnant, etc. Based on what I uncovered above, ther is no way that I can expose my son to that type of propaganda and false doctrine. I am very interested in knowing what sort of (Sunday School) material is vailable for this age group that is not "trite" and "cartoonish", and that actually presents the gospel in a manner that is suitable for this age group. Gilbert | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2005 |
Gilbert, Your post certainly did not irritate me. I have been discussing this with friends & family for a couple of years now with no clear answer in sight. That and the reliance on EGW rather than Scripture is what irritates me. I am in the same boat you are as far as family and lifestyle still partly in/partly out of the SDA church. BTW, I probably helped build the church you are now attending. DT | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2005 |
Imagine if at Sabbath School they passed out a paper like this: http://www.navpress.com/Assets/PDF/Product/Sample/41.pdf http://www.navpress.com/Magazines/PrayKids!/?page=sample Another thread referred to the Design for Discipleship series: http://www.navpress.com/Store/Product/1100.html This is the sort of material they should use for baptismal class instead of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs. I am interested in teaching my children about how to be a part of the body of Christ. That includes all Christians. Gilbert | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 624 Registered: 7-2004 |
Someone, not too long ago, was wondering if there was something available for kids that was the equivalant to Primary Treasure and other SDA SS material...check out the PrayKids Magazine that Gilbert listed above. I am very impressed and excited! I ordered it for my kids...I'll let you know! Thanks Gilbert! | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2005 |
Gilbert,I know Im late on this thread,but I was wondering isnt there any churches that have Saturday night servicesin your area? I have found a church that has two Saturday night services and two sunday services,I work nights so staying on the night scedule is so good for me.It's about a 20 mile drive for me but Iam blessed everytime. It's a large church so getting involved is hard,but that may be alright for now I need to get rid of the cobwebs. They have a information booth,and I went up ans started asking questions about what they teach etc. and they said they are a spirit led church ,non denomontial,laying on hands,praying beleiving church. But what I found interesting was they said not very many people ask that question,and I thought to myself you dont know where I came from,by God's grace the veil has been lifted and I will not be fooled again. Blessings,Dawn | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2243 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dawn, That sounds like the church I attend here in Henderson. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dawn -- Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. It seems like the Lord has 100 ways to work out His will in us if we let Him. He knows our individual family situations and provides us with wonderful opportunities that we don't even think of. Reagrding churches with Saturday evening services -- I have checked extensively and none of the Christian churches here in the Salt Lake valley seem to have such a thing. This is a real mission field here in Salt Lake City. A large percentage of the population is Mormon (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- actually not Christian at all!). There are 5 SDA churches here in the valley as well as an SDA (grades 1-8) school with about 50+ students. My son currently goes there, and there are only two other boys in his 5th grade -- not many to associate with. He is also the "new kid" because for the previous four grades we homeschooled. As a result, the other two boys have their own "clique" and leave him out, and so we are looking for a "real" Christian school for him to go to with a larger school enrollment. Also, prior to this point in time I have been researching other (non-SDA as SDAs fondly call it) Christian fellowships that I might participate in. My dear wife is fully aware of the inconsistencies of Ellen White's false teachings, but that "Sunday is the Mark-of-the-Beast" teaching is deeply rooted. It is a dragon that takes time (God's time) to slay in each of our lives. I really don't want to leave SDAism just to join another denomination, otherwise I might join a large nearby Lutheran church. I have attended the Bible study there, and they have very friendly people. I was troubled by their focus on the Ten Commandments (actually 9) -- which I understand comes from Martin Luther's catechism study. That's ok. As a 5th generation past SDA, I am sick of being hammered on the head about the 4th commandment. I realize that is an over-reaction, but I am looking for a New Covenant fellowship where the emphasis is on the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Of all the church groups I have researched the Evangelical churches seem to be the closest in their theology to what I am looking for. There is a large one nearby called "Evangelical Free Church of Salt Lake City" (http://www.slcevfree.org/). I have been listening for some time to the Internet broadcasts of their worship services (http://www.slcevfree.org/worship/services.html) and find it much like Adventist services I am used to -- minus the false doctrine and Ellen White heresy. The focus is on discipleship and evangelism -- the gospel commission. They are also active in the community. I am attracted to what I have found there, but family peace is important too, and that "Worshipping on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast" thinking that is so deeply burned into each of as as past-Adventists exists in our family as well. It is a scar that only the Holy Spirit can heal. Since Wednesday is not Sunday I can go to Christian Bible studies and still keep peace at home. My son agrees with me on Ellen White's source of false inspiration so I have support there. Well, guess what. This same church congregation also maintains the leading Christian K-12 school (300+ students) in the valley -- Intermountain Christian School (http://www.slcics.org/). ICS's high school is ranked #1, its middle school #7, and its elementary school #4 of all schools in the state of Utah (in 2004). This ranking is by the Sutherland Institute and takes into consideration many aspects of a quality education. A number of other Adventist families send their children here instead of to the local SDA (grades 1-8) school. We are considering as a family sending him to this school next school year so he has more friends his age. Their spiritual focus is impressive. In the mean time we are studying as a family about the Covenants. As I am sure many of you can relate to, old beliefs die hard. In addition relatives on both sides are committed SDAs. Praise God that He has a plan for each of us, and perhaps the first toehold to connecting up with a Biblically-based fellowship may be via the school instead of the church. In the immediate future we can listen to the online sermons. "In His time ..." I've wondered what the reaction would be if I started going to church on both Saturday (SDA) and Sunday (Bible-based). I would be "keeping the (Saturday) Sabbath". I am really amazed at what lengths the SDA religion goes to in order to place a stigma on worshipping God on Sunday. That is especially interesting in light of Ellen White's recommendation that it will be ok to have "religious" services on Sunday -- (as long as they are not "worship" services (http://www.ellenwhite.org/canright/can21.htm). These are truly signs of a cult! Gilbert | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2244 Registered: 3-2004 |
Gilbert, You and your family are in my prayers. It is hard to give up the Sabbath because in Adventism it is connected to our salvation. It is those old SDA "Tapes" playing. Just remember our salvation is a gift from God and we do not have to do a thing except accept and love Jesus. I will also be praying for a school for your son. God in Heaven, we thank you for Jesus and what He did for each of us. Be with Gilbert and his family that they will follow Jesus where ever he leads them. You are always awesome God. Diana |
