| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 613 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sabra, I can put myself in your shoes. I do not remember the IJ and what it teaches. I, too, would like to see the house fall. The religion is blasphemous. God is the Great I AM, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Creator, Great Physician and is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 966 Registered: 11-2002 |
About having to declair EGW as THE Spirit of Prophecy before one is allowed to become SDA is the reason I asked the Lutheran minister to baptize me as a Christian ONLY. Then a year later I requested church membership. I still maintain that a SDA batitizm is not so much a baptism into Christianity as it is into the SDA religion. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yes, Susan that is exactly the way I see it. Several years ago I was at a conference for US evangelists. There was a lot of undercurrent of unhappiness over the baptismal requirements because they knew it's unbiblical. Bottom line is that the evangelists are being pressed for numbers, which comes from how many they get baptized into Adventism. Only a very small proportion of these are people accepting Christ for the first time from my observation. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2004 |
I am aware that at least in some places the statement that EGW is a prophet is not required. It is the only one on the list that was told to me to be optional. helovesme2 | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 967 Registered: 11-2002 |
What is a US convention? Helovesme2, I have never heard of any of the 27 Fundamentals or any of the baptism requirements being optional. Also, it is very few SDA pastors who will baptise someone On Profession of Christian Faith only. They generally insist on SDA membership at the time of baptism. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2004 |
 I was told by the local pastor that it was optional to accept EGW when we were going through the list of 27. This was not long after the 27 Fundamental Beliefs book came out. I understood that to be a conference (the Gulf Conference I think?) understanding in that area. I also know that continued on at the place for many years. Not sure if he's still pastoring or not. | ||
| Krista Registered user Username: Krista Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2004 |
When I was baptized over 2 years ago, I was never told that I was agreeing to the 27 beliefs. I knew I was joining the church and would have preferred that it was only a profession of Christian faith. I am so frustrated with myself that I didn't do any research on the church's doctrines ahead of time... I take responsibility for that, but I also feel that they should have explained more to me, especially the plagiarism issues. Seems like they just made it sound too simple, like they were just another Christian church. The choice to leave isn't easy, as this church isn't the typical sda church - they talk about grace and I consider the pastors to be my friends. When I talked on the phone to the pastor about withdrawing my membership, he said it wasn't necessary for me to believe in egw's ideas to be in the church. Recently I discovered that sda churches get "points" for each baptism. I wonder if they subtract points when someone quits? Does anyone know anything about this? | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 135 Registered: 3-2004 |
Krista, you bring up a very valuable point about evangelical SDA preachers. Unfortunately, it seems they too have to work with deception. Itís just a different type of deception. I know of two gospel-oriented pastors who went into two different churches about the same time and attempted to turn things around. One was very direct and ěcleared houseî right off. Needless to say, this created a furor within the church and within the conference. A huge number of people left and the pastor was very close to being fired on more than one occasion. The other pastor took a different tack and tried to win people over gradually and smooth things. But that just created a huge internal rumbling because the traditional powers within the church were no longer in control. Things were actually rocky for a longer period of time in that church and then there was a gradual removal of members. That pastor too almost lost his job because the historicists were constantly complaining to the conference. Now that there are two churches preaching grace-based gospel truth in an Adventist venue, what do you really have? You have a bunch of confused people. If/when either of these pastors leaves, new people they have brought in will have a rude awakening about what are really Adventist beliefs. Most of the longer time members just seem to go into maintenance mode and float along with whatever the current pastor is saying. The veil remains firmly in place over the face of the majority of the congregation, those with prior Adventist upbringing. They donít even realize the ěheresyî thatís being preached from their pulpits. A few years ago there was a ruling (I believe for the NAD) that said pastors must read the baptismal vows out loud because of the very thing Krista mentions. The only thing is, they use the 13-point vow that isnít really near as revealing as the 27 Fundamentals. Iím sure that there are many, many people brought into the church today who have no clue that there are cultic roots. Iíve talked with people who have walked out the door almost as soon as they were baptized because the ěsaintsî then feel free to approach them to point out the errors of their ways about the jewelry, their diet, the ěSister White saidÖî remarks and all the other things the pastor never mentioned. Bottom line, Iím really coming to believe that the evangelical Adventists are only fooling themselves. They are working under as much deception as the traditionalists. While they like to claim they are preaching ěgospel truthî the reality is they arenít preaching the entire gospel or else everyone would understand they no longer need to be under the Old Covenant. As I put my soapbox away, let me just add that I believe weíre doing exactly the right thing when our group here is praying for the root beliefs of the SDA church to be fully exposed and for all to understand their meanings. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 682 Registered: 7-2000 |
I havn't heard of any "point" system for the amount of a church's baptisms, but I do know that a "Pastor of the Year" award used to be given out at one of the regional conference pastor's yearly meetings. My husband recieved one in 1992, knowing it was for the most baptisms the previous year in that conference. He was mortified, yet at the time dealing with so much cognitive dissonance about the whole Adventist doctrinal structure that he just quietly accepted it without comment. We are so grateful to be out of that whole mindset now, knowing we have everything we will ever need just being IN CHRIST! He is enough!! grace always, cindy | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2004 |
The SDA Church are just interested in numbers. One only has to look at the back of the Lesson Study Guide; all the Conferences, Chuches, Number of members, etc. Yet when I finally decided to leave the denonination, nobody, not even the head elder, came to see why I wasn't at church anymore. And that SDA indoctination is so deep, that when one thinks sometimes of a christian belief, you stop and ask yourself, was that EGW or in the Bible? Then usually when I look it up, I find for instance that Revelation does not state it the way I thought, and then only do I realise how much of Adventist dogma is EGW based. I am so thankful to be out of the Mind Control of Adventism. I worship at a wonderful church with a 'heavenly' choir, where one feels that Christ Himself is present, as He stated "Where two or three are gathered in my name, I am present there." I look forward to church on Sundays, to remember that my Saviour is resurected and sits at the right hand of the Father. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 972 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear 33ad, I don't think you and me have ben properly intoduuced so let me introduce myself. I am Susan_2. I am looking forward to learning from you. How long were you SDA? Were you converted to SDA or raised SDA? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 759 Registered: 12-2003 |
PraiseGod, I agree with your post above. Evangelical Adventists are working with as much deception as any other Adventist. The fact is, as embarassing and confusing as EGW is to them, her interpretations of eschatology and of salvation still shape their beliefs. The deceptive spirit of Adventism owns them as surely as it does the historicist Adventists. I know how thoroughly it owns them because for at least 10 years, I was what would be called an evangelical Adventist. Yet my mind was confused; the doctrines didn't really make sense; the epistles seemed disjunct and confusing; the church seemed rigid and "stuck", yet simultaneously safe and comforting. It was a crazy-making way to live. I, too, pray for God to expose and break the power of Adventism and allow the enslaved to know Him freely. (BTW, this discussion reminds me of Dale Ratzlaff's memorable quote: "There are only two kinds of Adventists: the deceived and the dishonest.") Praise God for setting us free in Jesus! Colleen | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2004 |
Dear Susan_2 Thanks for the welcome. My first name is Loren. I was raised an SDA, from cradleroll through High School. I was 4th generation.(And I stayed with the "Truth" for 48 years!) I exist because of SDA's. I live in South Africa, My mom was an American (Child of Adventist Missionaries who came to Africa.) My dad and mom met at the SDA College in South Africa. My grandpa on my dad's side was a 'Pioneer' evangelist in this country in the early 20th century. Anyhow, that's how deeply I was indoctrinated. When the Des Ford controversy and the EGW Plagarism charges came in the 80's I bought the church line. It was only in 1998 when I finally got access to the net that I started to visit sites like ellenwhite.org and goodnewsunlimited. At first I was afraid to believe the reports and afraid of where it might lead. But bit by bit I got more and more turned off at church because they were plugging EGW so much. Des Ford also showed me the falsehood of the 2300 days doctrine. It was hard to unlearn Sabbath, but the Holy Spirit was leading me, and I followed like Abraham, not knowing where he would lead me. So I studied my way right out of the SDA church!lol. My sister is married to an adventist pastor, and they're so concerned for me.(And I for them) It took a long while to find a new church home where I felt comfortable (Perhaps that's not the right word); Where I felt at home because God was present there. My wife Brenda and I both were accepted into our new church in April this year, and we've hardly missed a week, although we have to drive 25 miles. There, now you know a bit more about me. How long were you an SDA? My replies to posts will sometimes be a couple hours later because of the time difference. I'm really glad also to be part of this fourum, as we all need encouragement and we all get a Blessing from being able to fellowship in Cyberspace. Praise to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and forever into the ages to come. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2004 |
Loren - welcome. Thanks for sharing your story. God uses this forum in my life to lead me toward Him and away from my SDA heritage. Thanks for being a part of my glorious life of freedom, love and grace. Does your username hold significance? | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hello 33ad, and welcome. My name is Valerie and, like you, I studied my way out of adventism. Its sometimes very scary, all these scriptures in the new testement saying just the opposite of what I was taught as an sda! It hasn't been easy, but by the help and grace of God, I'm making it despite being looked down on by former sda friends, and being looked at by my mom and dad as just "going through a phase". I guess the most frustrating thing about sda's is that there is no distinction between the writings of EGW and the Bible to them. Me, I've decided to believe the Bible only. Plus, reading about EGW's failed prophecy's (her predictions that black people in the United States will be re-enslaved, her "theory" that some humans are running around that are half animal, and some of her craziness that she writes concerning masterbation and what foods cause it, etc., etc) Because of this, I had no choice but to leave the sda church after 35 years. Thank God for this forum, which is interesting and has been a tremendous learning experience | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear 33ad, My cousins son-in-law is South African. He has a really cool accent. It was good to read your story. | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hi All, Thank you for making me feel welcome. Susan_2, I have two sisters. One is in Modesto in Calif.She and her husband became SDA's rather late. But I'm glad to say it looks like the Lord is leading her out now too. She's asking me a lot of questions.I'm glad you think our accents are cool!lol.That's just the way we talk. Hi Valerie.May I ask you, do you have a Russian family background. It appears to me that your username has significance in a Russian Sense "To come out"? Hi Dd, yes, my user name has significance. Pentecost was in 33ad! I belong to the church that Jesus left the Apostles to carry forward. This same church decided what our Christian Bible's Canon should be in the 4th century. It endured the early Roman persecuction and gave us the early Church Fathers.The Roman Catholic Church broke away from this church in 1054 and continued on in heresy. The body of Christ was preserved in the East, and went into the worst persecution in Soviet Russia that the Church had ever seen. But the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ is victorius, and is 'up and running' again. We await our Savior's return with glad anticipation as the apostles did. The SDA church is dead, and has nothing to offer humankind (except perhaps ADRA) What a learning curve!What nourishment I've received for my soul. What a journey it's been!"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9" Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2004 |
Loren, welcome to the forum. Please know that you are among kindred spirits. BTW, a countryman of yours by the name of Smuts VanRooyen was one of the many who helped me study my way out back in the late 70's-early 80's. Dane | ||
| 33ad Registered user Username: 33ad Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks Dane, Smuts V Rooyen played a big role in my life in my 20's. He was one of the first SDA's I know who was preaching Salvation by Grace. I wanted to look him up just last month, as I'd heard he left the church. But when I did a Google I found him back Pastoring an SDA church in Calif. I do still want to email him though and chat to him. He'd remeber me as I have quite a high profile amongst SDA's in SA due to my Dad also being in the Publishing house here for most of his life as editor of Signs, etc.My dad fell asleep in the Lord at the end of may this year. But now knowing that Soul-Sleep is a myth, I kind of imagine the Lord might have told him the Good News. I have no doubt that my mom or dad, though being both denominational workers, have found favour with God. They lived truly Christ centred lives, and that's what counts. God Bless Loren | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2004 |
Loren, I thought your username had profound meaning. I am in the BSF study of Acts (you most likely have the same study close by in South Africa as it is an international study). We just finished looking at Acts 2. I have LOVED seeing the changed Peter. If there ever has been a wake up call for me, it has been just the plain old study of Scripture. I, like you, was raised by "high-profile" SDA parents (part of the good 'ol boy club). I had Bible class all 16 years of my SDA education. At home we prayed the same prayer before every meal and that was my extent of Christian living. What a joy it is to finally realize the substance of God's love! He just grows dearer to my soul each new day! |
