| Author | Message | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2005 |
In Galatians 3:19 we are told that the law was added until the coming of the Seed, of Christ. I hope somebody here can explain the role of the Law today, because Paul said that the law is good if it is used correctly, and is not for believers but for unbelievers, for sinners (1 Timothy 1:8-11). Can you harmonize these texts? The Law is still valuable for sinners, but not for christians? In Galatians the purpose of the law which is added until the coming of Christ is to point sin in unbelievers. From 1 Timothy it seems that the Law still has this role today, like nothing changed with the coming of Christ. The Law is still for unbelieving sinners. Is this not a contradiction with Galatians in which it is stated that the purpose of the Law is accomplished when Christ has come? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 806 Registered: 7-2004 |
Paul says that the Law is a school teacher to bring us to Christ. Once we are born again we have the Holy Spirit inside to teach us, so then the law can fade away. The Holy Spirit knows what the Law said, but once we are renewed and made alive in Christ those law have purpose and our renewed spirits no longer want to do the things that bring shame on the Christian. This, by the way, is the work of a lifetime and doesn't happen all at once! None will be perfect until Jesus returns and completely cleanses our hearts of the evil that is in this world. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 394 Registered: 7-2004  |
The Law can show someone their need of a Savior, but it can not save them. It can show the need for righteousness, but can not credit that righteousness to anyone. The Law can still being wrath to those who break it, if their sins are not covered by the righteousness of Jesus. I see no contradiction between Paul's statements in Gal and I Tim. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3087 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jackob, I have asked myself in past months how to view the law when we evangelize unbelievers. Do we teach the law in order to bring people to repentance, and then present Jesus...? I believe that first of all, the NT dos give us clear understanding of sin--sin is the transgression of the law, the wages of sin is death, etc. We don't "teach" the law as part of a person's salvation. Most people have an innate sense of sinfulness, and those that don't do need to see what the Bible says about sin. Clearly the law still can serve its original function in the lives of unbelievers. It is a mirror to point out sin and to cause sin to increase. Our evangelism, though, is to teach Jesus, not the law. The component that I think many more liberal Christians miss (including most Adventists), however, is the issue of recognizing sin and coming to repentance. Before accepting Jesus means anything, a person must acknowledge his deep sinfulness and come before Jesus in repentance. But as far as teaching people goes, I don't believe we teach people the law now; we teach the miracle of Jesus' atonement. That being said, I believe that one of the ways "immature" Christians become mature is by learning the OT and its significance and seeing how Jesus fulfilled it. There is a movie some of you have seen called "Ee-Tow". It's the story of a couple going to New Guinea and teaching a completely unreached tribe the gospel. The way they did it was by beginning by showing the people a map of the world, showing them where they lived in relationship to other countries, and then showing them where the Bible originiated. They then began systematically teaching them the OT stories, moving from creation to the call of Abraham to Sinai and the sacrifices, on through the major highlights of the OT . Then they moved to the NT, and they showed how Jesus fulfilled all those OT prophecies. They then told the story of Judas and finally of Jesus' betrayla, trial, and crucifixion. During this time they used props: a toy stuffed lamb as the OT sacrifices, then used actual skits to demonstrate Jesus and his disciples and the trial and the betrayal and the crucifixion. The missionary visually demonstrated how Jesus died as the lambs had died for centuries before. At the point in the skits/teaching where Jesus died instead of the lamb bearing their sins, the tribe entered deep mourning. The death of Jesus broke them. All of this took three months. Then (I believe they waited three days) they acted out the resurrection. At the point where Jesus rose from the dead, the missionaries had prepared the people to see how his death had not been deserved, that he, like the lambs, had taken their sins, and that he conquered death. The entire tribe began to cheer, and they broke out into a celebration that lasted for hours, and the whole tribe came to Christ. It is a most amazing story, and it demonstrates how central to a deep understanding of the gospel a knowledge of the OT is. So, Jackob, I see no contradiction between Gal and 1 Timothy, but I do see that an understanding of the OT and the old covenant gives depth and shape to people's grasp of reality and salvation. Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2005 |
Colleen, Thank you for that description. Where can I find that movie. It sounds really good and something I would like to see. I like what you have to say about learning the OT and how it teaches Jesus. I've been in a bible study where they are teaching OT and I have seen such a significant difference over what the Adventists taught. It is my understanding the Adventists teach the importance of the cross mostly involves repentance, and of course, continuation of prophecy that has already been fulfilled. Adding to the bible as EGW has done shows a very clear warning stated in Revelation 22:18.* I've been learning the connection of the OT to the NT, not the continuation of OT laws as SDA Church teaches. Also, I now see how the adventist church and adventists pick and choose the laws of the OT and the writings of EGW as well. The true spirit of prophecy** (Revelation 19:10) leads to Jesus, not to OT teachings of the bible that lead to such things as OT food laws or a great disappointment. Date setting for Christs return is not biblical.*** (Mark 13:32) The classes where I am attending church are very good in teaching the bible as you described. It really is so so different comparatively to what the Adventists teach. We must take the full armor so we will not be deceived by the wiles of the devil.**** (Ephesians 6:10-18) Lynne __________________________________________________________________________ * 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. ** Revelation 19:10 - ....... Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." *** Mark 13:32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. **** The Armor of God - Ephesians - 10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3098 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lynne, I'm really not sure where to get that movie. I'll bet if you do a Google search, you could find it! Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 150 Registered: 10-2005 |
I tried a google search before asking. No luck. | ||
| Ratthedd Registered user Username: Ratthedd Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2006 |
Here ya go, Lynn: http://www.goodseed.com/ca/video/ee-tow.html I've not seen the movie, but the description Colleen gave reminded me of one of my father's stories. He was a missionary in New Guinea during the late '50s and early '60s. He took along some of those cradle-roll scrolls they used to have with the big pictures. In one tribe he was teaching them the Christian story of creation and using the scroll for visual effect. Everything was fine until he got to the fifth day and all of a sudden all the men in the tribe hopped to their feet, ran to their huts and came running back brandishing spears. Obviously my father started freaking out (my words, not his) until they started trying to jab the fish in the picture with their spears. Stories about New Guinea often crack me up. |
