| Author | Message | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2005 |
I've been reading archived posts as old as 2003, trying to discover whether any of you have spouses who were SDA when you left the church, remained in the church for a time, but have since left the church themselves. I've been out of the church for only about 6 weeks, but my husband is firmly entrenched. He's one of five elders in the local congregation. If your spouse has left or become less entrenched, do you believe your decision to leave the church is the reason they started to question for themselves? I'm trying to determine whether I should just leave my mouth completely shut regarding my objections to SDA doctrine or continue to speak up about them. I'm open to suggestions. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2001  |
I was never SDA, but married my husband after he said he saw the errors of the SDA church and would leave. Unfortunately after we were married he became "convicted" and headed right back into the church. He fell into historical adventism and became quite fanatical actually, even saying going to church with me would be a sin. He was in a vicious cycle for about two years of really trying to follow all of the Adventist rules, then falling short and breaking all of them (which would sometimes then cause him to renounce adventism) but eventually being pulled back into it. What finally led him out of the church for good was God putting several people in his life outside of church who were some of the most Godly people he had ever met (and they were nonadventists!) Also, coincidentally (or not  ) at the same time he read the Ratzlaff books. Also at this time I think he finally understood that the Christian walk wasn't this all-or-nothing thing. As far as my part in it, I am the one who caused him to question the church in the first place, and when he went back into it, we invariably entered into some heated arguments about the Sabbath in particular. As an attempt towards peace we agreed I would write a paper with all my arguments on it, and then he would respond to it. Well I wrote my paper, and he never responded to it. Later he said it was because he knew he couldn't do it. I never kept my mouth shut over objections to SDA doctrine, when discussion of EGW and perfectionism came up, but that was not what led him out of the church. I think my comments were just watering the seed a little. Thankfully, Hannah | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hannah, Thank you for sharing your experiences. You say your husband read the Ratzlaff books. What convinced him to do that? I seriously doubt I could get my husband to read anything anti-SDA. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2001 |
Well it helped he never was happy with Adventism. He wanted to believe it was false, but he was afraid to, if that makes any sense. I think the biggest part was realizing you can have a close relationship with God and not be an Adventist or keep the Sabbath. (it really wasn't my testimony. I had to live with him, HA) The Ratzlaff books were just icing on the cake. I would add to that also a gradual awakening to the knowledge of the presence of the unconditional love of God. Still thankfully, Hannah | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 609 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Honest, There are so many variables to consider that I do not believe you can use anyone else's journey and make it the right thing for you and your husband. There are many FAs that have had the same question about their spouse that you have asked. We each have a different story to tell how our marriages survived the transition. The one thing I know to be the same from our different stories is prayer. God knows your husband better than anyone (even you ). He knows the best way He can use you in sharing Real Truth. Pray, not only for your husband, but for yourself that you will be fully surrendered to God's full control. It is your changed life that will speak the loudest and the clearest to your husband. Let your love for God's amazing grace and power be seen and observed. Let your actions and responses during life's stressful times speak loudly of your surrender (1 Peter 1:3-7). I firmly believe that God has given us wives a special ability to be His witnesses of New Covenant living. It is one thing to preach it but it can only be lived when we completely surrender our day to Him. I did my share of "preaching" and sharing. Everytime I saw something new about the truth of the SDA doctrines I printed it and left it on my husband's side of the bed for him to read (I should have bought stock in a paper company!). But I think the best things I shared with him were not the ugly deceptions but the beautiful truths of God's unfailing love, soveriegnty and power found in Galatians, Ephesians and even the OT stories that hold so many principles for today's living. My husband tells me now that what made the biggest difference for him was seeing the change in ME! Trust me! IT WASN'T ME!! It was Christ living in me!! "I have been crucified with CHrist; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." Galatians 3:20 You and your husband are in my prayers, Honestwitness. He will lead you both. Denise | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2161 Registered: 3-2004  |
Honestwitness, I have not been married for a long time, but I can pray for you. I have put you on my prayer list. God in Heaven, send the Holy Spirit to Honestwitness as she witnesses to her husband of your love and care. Send the Holy Spirit to him to open his eyes to what Jesus did for us and that all we need is Jesus. Thank you for answering this prayer. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2005 |
Honestwitness, I can somewhat relate to your situation even though mine is different. Both my wife and I come from extensive Seventh-day Adventist families going back a number of generations, and holding numerous prominent positions, etc. That said, I was for some time disturbed by the proposition that the SDA Church claimed it was the exclusive remnant, and all other Christians were going to hell unless they become Adventists when the Universal Sunday Law was passed. I also felt that it was very works oriented, among other things. Things started to escalate this summer when I think the Holy Spirit really started working on me. The more I studied about Ellen White (a very good site is http://ellenwhite.org), the more I realized that the whole SDA religion was built on a "house of cards". Take her out, and it will collapse. That is a fact. My lovely bride of 28 years, and I still have SDA memberships but I am waiting for the right time to remove mine. Over the past six months my wife has become aware of numerous inconsistencies in Ellen White's writings -- most of it at my prompting. She finds it too stressful to discuss, and so I have backed off, but occasionally share a few things with her. I have planted the seed. I feel the Holy Spirit is the one who in every case does the convincing. I can plant the seed but the Holy Spirit has to convict. I am seeing positive progress both in my own life and in hers. I rarely attend an SDA church, and am looking for a more biblically oriented church family. We have a 10 year old which makes it more difficult in some ways, however God has worked things out there as well. Our 17 and 25 year old know, and significantly understand the truths I have discovered. I have found the best approach is to share my Christian walk with the Lord in as many positive ways as possible with my spouse. Even in Paul's writings, where he talked about all the divisiveness in the early Christian church, he encouraged focusing on the things they had in common. Each of us have a life filled with individual difficulties and challenges and we each need all the encouragement and tenderness that we can get, don't we? Each morning and evening I pray with my wife for God's blessings and guidance. A while back we used to have the SDA version of worship where we read SDA worship material. Interest was hard to maintain so that just kind of died out a couple of years ago. About 4 months ago I suggested that we read the Bible for worship. No heavy discussion. Just read the Bible. Each of the three of us, in turn pick a book of the Bible, and we read a chapter or two each evening until the book is completed. We have read 1 Corinthians, Galatians, Acts, Romans, and are now going through Psalms. Most recently it was my wife's turn again and she selected Psalms. The 10-year-old selected Romans, and I had previously selected Acts. So for evening "worship" time together with our 10-year old we: 1. Pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance as we read 2. Read a chapter or two 3. Have closing pray Currently we agree that we should be able to support our beliefs, whatever they may be, from the Bible. I just purchased a 64-CD set of Zondervans NIV Dramatized Old/New Testament from Amazon.com for abot $62 so we can listen to it when we feel like it while driving, etc. I find that at present we both agree that we: 1. Love God 2. Thirst to better understand God's Word 3. Need to be able to support everything we believe from the Bible. 4. Need to learn more about effective Bible study. Perhaps your husband would be receptive to using http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/other_doc4.html 5. Benefit from praying together each morning and evening. 6. Respecting each other's viewpoint. 7. Accepting that we both are committed to each other and to God. By building as much "common ground" as possible and showing appreciation and positive affirmation it has made it easier to appreciate the fact that we both seek the Holy Spirit's guidance. My wife even suggested the other week that I might want to check out some of the other denominations. That came as a real shock to me, because the 7th-day Sabbath has always been a solid wall of opposition. It takes time. How to get to the truths the Holy Spirit has convicted each of us here about. If you follow the formula above of agreeing to study the Bible (only) each evening together -- just casual reading without doctrinal debate, other than perhaps casual comments or observations, the two of you will each take turns picking first on book to read through, and then another. That means that you get to pick 50% of the time. You might pick Acts (for example) when your turn comes to pick a book -- since of course you are interested in learning as much as you can about the early Christian church. Acts was written by Luke (?), and should be a good non-controversial book of the Bible. Your husband would then pick some other book next. Then you could pick Romans, and so on. I think that a lot of seed will be planted if you just go through all of Paul's writings. Also, on my own, I decided to study specific subjects. I was initially fascinated by the whole area surrounding creation, but the Holy Spirit really impressed me to instead do a detailed study of the Seal of God. Make a list of all the verses. See what they have to say. It sounds like your husband at least subscribes to the idea of studying the Bible. That has to be a good thing in itself. Tell him that you are, for example studying all the verses that the Bible has referring to the Seal of God. Encourage him to do likewise with a subject of his choice and share it with you. Agree that in order to witness to those who are not Adventists you will both have to base everything on the Bible. For personal Bible study I use a downloaded copy of the Online Bible from http://www.onlinebible.net I have found that Adventists are absolutely frightened to approach a study of the Bible without being neck-deep in Ellen White writings. This they will fervently deny, of course. I have found the more I study the Bible and pray with my wife the closer we grow together. Since we have agreed that our common ground is the Bible, we base our security in each other on that. The rest takes time -- God's time. There is much more that I could share with you. I know you will have lots more questions. I am happy to share in any way that I can. Gilbert | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 92 Registered: 12-2004 |
Your forum name "Honestwitness" is your best approach in dealing with this very challenging issue. As Denise pointed out, each situation is unique and needs to be approached prayerfully and with much Grace. There are of course many factors why some choose to remain Adventist even while understanding the doctrinal challenges. For many the reasons include relationships, family ties, employment, fear of change or the unknown, and the inherent comfort of the predictable. If they walk with God , who am I to judge. Many see their spouse go through the stages of grief that leaving an oppressive church entails, and then the freedom that follows, and they wonder who or what will this person leave next .This is a very unsettling time. For some of us this spiritual quest was started as we looked for answers in dealing with midlife professional, personal, and relational angst. For some of us the Lord has led us into uncharted territory theologically in our search for authenticity and truth. When we become frustrated by what appears to be failure on our spouse's part to see things our way, we are in effect challenging the legitimacy our spouse's walk with God. This does not help. Prayer that God grants patience to your spouse for it cannot be easy living with someone who is excited about their freedom when they have not been so moved. Trust God that He knows best, and allow the Holy Spirit latitude in His timing. In the thick of it, Randy | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 128 Registered: 3-2005 |
I am not sure why God choose to take my husband and I out at the same time except that maybe we are enmeshed as a shrink would say, and needed to, to stay together... I think it was God as my husband has been numb spiritually, or should I say indifferent when it came to deep spiritual issues, which is what he was taught as a 3rd and 4th generation Adventist. My family, on the other hand, are very comfortable with "feely touchy" topics and are much more overtly sold out on God, even inside the SDA church. So for Ted to have an interest in changing his world (he hates change) and tackling deep theological issues - it was a MIRICLE. I really don't know why God took me out when He did either. I went through a BA in theology at one of our colleges and had all the answers. In my experience, God figures out the timing that best fits His kid. I wouldn't hide anything from your spouse. I'd share what you are learning all the while let him know you choose to respect him for where he is and let God move him one way or another, but in order to stay close you can't live in two different worlds. Stay open, vulnerable and honest but not pushy. Trust God and we will pray. Lisa | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 718 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well...my husband was always a lukewarm SDA. He never studied what they believe or what Ellen White says...so there was nothing for him to get angry over. I, on the other hand, tried my best to do as Ellen and the SDA's said, which led to total depression and disillusionment. I was liberated by God in August 2002. It almost tore my marriage apart because "I" was the Sabbath enforcer. "I" was the one who wanted to tithe. "I" was the one who got everyone up for church...know what I mean. But my husband liked me in that role. Anyway...he was active in the music aspect of the church and I attended for about a year after I was liberated but things went really wrong there over music and the church split. So he quit attending...we go no where now. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3138 Registered: 12-2003  |
Pheeki, will your husband not go with you elsewhere, or are you unable to find a church? I will pray for you to find a place where you can both be fed and grow. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2005 |
Well, friends! You've given me quite a lot of good advice to digest. I especially appreciate the recommendation to pray, which I will try to remember to do more often. I also appreciate knowing that all of you are praying, too. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 93 Registered: 12-2004 |
Pheeki, I was lucky in that I had found A wonderful large,lively Bible-only Baptist Church that I have been attending for a year.This church www.trinitybaptist.net has allowed me to see what a church can and should be. There is something going on there everyday of the week. It is a beacon of caring in the community. It would have been far more difficult to leave if I hadn't already found something so much more superior. I believe that participation in a church like this, where there is something meaningful and practical happening all the time will draw family members into greater participation, or at least allows the opportunity for such. Even if your husband doesn't go with you initially, the joy and fulfillment you will find will rub off and be a witness. That is the prayer I hold for my family. I think this is a very common situation. Though it seems devisive to go alone, you have to stay healthy spiritually and find opportunities for service. I firmly believe they will follow if the Lord impresses them . In the thick of it, Randy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 722 Registered: 1-2003 |
I actually found a church, Fellowship of Joy-loosly Southern Baptist...but they moved the church from a school gym (close to my home) to about an hour away. It was easy to get there (usually by myself or with a kid or two) then, but now it takes planning...and without buy in from my spouse...there are just too many distractions to get there. I do LOVE it when I go. I sit there an cry tears of joy and relief. Please pray that I make it there more often. My husband has gone with me and likes it there but he hasn't been in a long time and recently made a comment that he felt they had a smooth operation there and were phony. I don't feel that way at all. There is such a marked difference there from the SDA churches we have attended. It's like joy and love instead of fear, angst and pride. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3154 Registered: 12-2003 |
PheekióI'll be praying for you--and for your husband. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2163 Registered: 3-2004 |
Pheeki, I will be praying for you and your husband also. God is working on him. Our God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2005 |
I am adventist in name only, my wife is still dyed-in-the-wool up to her ears adventist. It causes a little strife. Jason | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3195 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jason, you are certainly not the only one in your situation here. I'm sure others will post as they come online. Your situation is so hard. As I said on another thread, I will pray for both of you. Colleen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2004 |
Welcome Jason, I am glad you have found this site. I understand the struggles you are going through. You are not alone. We are all here to share your burdens and challenges. Each situation is unique and yet strikingly similiar. If you have specific questions, just ask. Those of us here, believe that there is JOY to be had in Christianity. Seventh-day Adventism does not allow the joy that freedom in Christ evokes. As I have allowed myself to appreciate the freedom promised in the New Testament the unique doctrines of Adventism have faded in significance. We however walk a fine line in living our freedom when those closest to us do not share the same understanding, and are threatened and challenged by the changes in our lives. I have found Romans 14 a most helpful chapter in helping me to discern how to live my freedom. Find a couple of good commentaries on this chapter and it will help. Again, this forum is for sharing, both the good and the difficult parts of our journey. Four kids, I can relate. You are in my prayers. Randy | ||
| Ratthedd Registered user Username: Ratthedd Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2006 |
Honestwitness, I'm free from adventism, but my wife is still loosely attached. She's very close to her immediate family and they are well entrenched in the local church. It hasn't caused any stress for us--I support her choice to be an adventist and she refrains from mocking me for being an unbeliever. ;) It is true that she has become less serious about adventism since my own conversion out of the church and we've had a chance to talk at length about various aspects of the religion that just don't make sense. Be patient with your husband. Even if he never completely lets go there's no reason to break up a marriage over something so trivial. There's much more important things to fight about than arguing whose god is bigger, like how to squeeze the toothpaste or how to hang the toilet paper. When you live a true Christian life your nonverbal witnessing will speak much louder than words. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2005  |
Thank you for your response, Ratthedd. I agree about the toothpaste and the toilet paper. Those are monumental issues, aren't they? * grin * By the way, I'm curious how you chose your forum name. Does it mean you're a big fan of Dale Ratzlaff's writings? | ||
| Ratthedd Registered user Username: Ratthedd Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2006 |
My name comes from my wife, who named me for the rat's nest of hair I used to have on my head when we were first dating. |
