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Archive through February 01, 2006Lynne20 2-01-06  10:10 pm
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Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always thought if I am ever to pursue a Master's Degree in sociology (I already have 18 units towards it.) I'd do my thesis on cultural Adventism. I just think it would be an interesting area to get deep into, even going back within families decending from early Adventism because it would be my prediction that many of the SDA's who are currently practicing SDA's who come from a lineage of SDA forefathers, these people are cultural Ad entists because I have talked with some of these folks and they just don't seem to have a clue how to articulate the SDA religion and their beliefs that make any sense to anyone except other cultural SDA's.It's subtle, it can be from a birth expeerience-being born into Adventism and raised as one or if a person is converted to SDA'ism the total transformation to cultlike thinking and behavior would probably take a good 10 years or more. I've mentioned this on here before but it's been some time ago and there are now folks on here so I'll say it again. At age 11 when I was in the 5th grade at Fresno Adventist Academy I read my Bible and I made up my mind that when I grew up "I wasn't going to go to my parents dumb religion". By this time I had sat through numerous sermons about the SDA's super valuing the right of freedom of religion. So, in my childhood innocience in believing the people who loved me the most actually ment what they said I took that to mean that whem I grew up I could go to any church I wanted and all the SDA's would rejoyce for me. But, I found out the hard way with many hard words and attitudes towards me by the SDA's who love me that how I understood their zeal for freedom of religion and how they ment the term "freedom of religion" have two very oppositite meanings. Thanks for letting me rant, sometimes I just need to get that frustration out.
Snowboardingmom
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Username: Snowboardingmom

Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally agree with you Colleen. Adventism isn't just about differences in theology; it's about differences in culture too. The way we dress, what we eat, activities we do, how we worship, (everything!), can be influenced by our Adventist beliefs.

And there is a definite sense of loss. No matter how good the decision to walk away from Adventism may be, it's not easy. It means walking away from everything you've ever known. The foundation of who you are crumbles. And if that wasn't hard enough, you have your Adventist friends and family "feeling sorry for you" and thinking that if only you could see how important obedience to God is, then this wouldn't even be an issue. Little do they know how opposite the truth really is. If I didn't care, then this wouldn't be an issue.

I'm a natural people pleaser, and have always been an over-achieving, "perfect SDA girl". I'm struggling with my pride, because now I'm viewed as the "rebellious" girl. I feel so misunderstood by my Adventist friends. But until they understand, they won't see differently.

So not only does leaving Adventism change one's worldview (which is pretty significant in and of itself), but then one also has to deal with a whole new misconceived view of themselves. And that's hard, because you can't control that.

I can definitely see how it would take 2-5 years to heal/stabilize. It is not easy.
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen -- thank you so much for your words of wisdom. It is everything that you have said. We are in the truest sense preparing for the "storm", but it is not the "storm" that Adventism refers to. It is the storm of criticism.

We are so fortunate for these forums and for your ministry. Thank you, Jesus, for our wonderful fellowship and the Gift of Your Holy Spirit to give us discernment.

Gilbert
Anotherseeker
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Username: Anotherseeker

Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jorgfe...dont worry about the overload. Everything to do with SDA IS overload anyway.

I have filed the 1919 meeting with a view to printing it and possibly photo-copying it and HIGHLIGHTING certain parts to give out as i am led.

I see how this meeting PROVES that there has ALWAYS been an issue with her writings and how to speak to new comers to the church in order to not confuse them or to detract them from any controversy

I SECOND your appreciation of this ministry
Riverfonz
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Username: Riverfonz

Post Number: 1273
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember Robert Brinsmead commenting back in the early 80's about how hard it is to really leave the culture of Adventism. He was saying that most people never really do get rid of it. He would say that "The SDA culture is like peanut butter, you work very hard at getting the sticky stuff off, but it continues to stick".

Even 23 years removed from Adventism--guess what, I am still here. You still feel part of the culture, but I can honestly say that the Lord has graciously removed all the bitterness, and all the guilt. I know he sovereignly chose me to grow up Adventist, and I am ever thankful.

I've used this analogy before, where sometimes I identify with that Eagles song "Hotel California" which is about the spirit world. There is a line in the song that says "You can check out anytime, but you can never leave". Sometimes those old doubts and flashbacks of EGW visions that used to scare me such as the one with the halo around the 4th commandment. But, those doubts are mostly a distant memory, but there is a quick cure for this, and that is I go look up all the texts about what the Sabbath means under the New Covenant, and I thank the Lord, those texts are still there!

In contrast to the somewhat gloomy message of that Eagles song, we can claim the victory over all that bound us in Adventism, because Jesus has already won that victory for us, and we just need to keep claiming the victory He has already won.

Stan
Randyg
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Username: Randyg

Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Friends,

This has been a very interesting thread.There is so much here that reflects my last couple of months. As I have explained and/or defended my decision to leave Adventism to those I love and respect, including family and Pastors one thing has become perfectly clear. Supporting your decision with Scripture is not a viable reason or legitimate grounds to leave.

One Pastor after reading the articles on the Sabbath by John MacArthur and John Reisinger stated "I know the track taken is not a Biblical one even though it is filled with the Bible." This was followed by "the slippery slope" and "listening to those who have already fallen".It boils down to the fact that if you have an Extra Biblical "source of truth" to interpret Scripture for you, it somehow eliminates the need to think for yourselves. I find this very troubling.

I understand that no one likes to have beliefs challenged, unfortunately that is the result that occurs when we leave on Biblical grounds.

Gilbert, thank-you for the links.

Randy

Riverfonz
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Username: Riverfonz

Post Number: 1275
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And Randyg, if they won't pay attention to the articles by John Reisinger and John MacArthur, it is because their eyes are blinded and they don't really want to face the facts. Those two men you mentioned might, though, have more credibility because they have never been SDA, while some people might look down on former SDAs material, as being bitter folks, but this would not be true of Reisinger or MacArthur.

Stan
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3330
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Snowboardingmom, what you said about your own identity crumbling is accurate. That very thing is the core of my memory of leaving. I also grew up as a "people pleaser" and an overachiever. Letting go of the environment in which I had formed myself (and I was over 40!) was truly losing myself.

There is, though, another part of my memory that outshines even that core crumbling. That is the tangible joy and peace and even times of excitement I felt as I obeyed God and walked toward Him by embracing the gospel alone. I had previously had no idea that I could actually feel love for Jesus or feel His love for me. The reality of Jesus the Person was astonishingóand the continuing astonishment is that His tangible reality and the strength and comfort and discipline of His love has never left.

Following Jesus truly brings no material guaranteesóexcept that our bread and water will be sure, and that when we seek the kingdom of heaven, our physical needs will be provided because God knows we need them (Matthew 6:25-34).

As the song says, "Knowing You, Jesus, knowing You; there is no greater thing..."

Colleen
Wooliee
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Username: Wooliee

Post Number: 48
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh how I needed to hear your words Colleen. I have really been struggling lately about whether or not I am making a huge mistake in questioning Adventism and ultimately leaving it behind. I want to let go of the hold it has on me, but as soon as I do I want to run back to the familiar safety I know in it.

My parents and friends don't understand how I could ever not keep the Sabbath. It is unfathomable to them. And everytime I hear EGW mentioned or quoted I bristle, but they just think she is just some kindly old woman who started the church and that all the huge volumes of her writings are a testament to her gift from God. I used to think the same thing. They will rationalize how ridiculous it is that church people get hung-up on jewelry or dietary issues, but then say in the next breath how they "still believe in the Adventist message." What message? I have been an Adventist all my life, and I cannot really pinpoint what Adventists believe other than the Sabbath and a few diet and lifestyle things, and even those things are debatable. That is sad.

I have friends who are good Adventists, but I see an emptiness in them that makes me sad and leaves a cold feeling behind. I always say it's because they have Ellen in their hearts and not Jesus. They are very superficial when they talk about Jesus. I do know Adventists of course who completely love Jesus, but, and there is always that BUT, they cling to ways they can make themselves more holy and pleasing to God. I want to please God too, but I know the only way I can do that is to follow Him and let Him change me.

I have had people tell me that if I am looking for problems, I am going to find them. No church is perfect. I know that, but I want to follow what the Bible says. I truly do. I want to worship with people who don't speak out of both sides of their mouth. I want to follow Jesus. I know He loves me, died for me, and accepts me for who I am right where I am. I just never thought I would find myself at this crossroads feeling so confused.

I know that if I left the church it would break people's hearts, and I don't have anyone to talk to about it other than coming to this forum. No one I know understands. I do know that Jesus understands, and believe me I have laid this at His cross. I know He is faithful, and I know He will see me through this, but it is just so painful and confusing to me right now.

Thank you for letting me pour my heart out.

Julie
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3337
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Julie,

I'm so glad to see you here again! Don't stay away so long!

Your feelings are normal, and we can all relate to them. Know that we are praying for you and standing here beside you!

Colleen
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 632
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Julie,

I can so relate to your conundrum - wanting and having a taste of Christ's freedom yet knowing those you hold dear cannot even begin to understand. It is very painful, lonely and frightening.

I wish I could encourage you that these feelings will leave soon...I pray that they will...but I also pray that through these difficult times you will see and feel God's hand in yours as you travel through the unknown. Hold on to His promises.

"The steadfast of mind You will keep in perfect peace,
Because he trusts in You.
Trust in the Lord forever,
For in God the Lord, we have an everlasting Rock." Isa. 26:4,5

With Peace and Security in Jesus,
Denise
Javagirl
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Username: Javagirl

Post Number: 142
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Julie,
So good to see you! You have been on my heart and in my prayers often--the last two weeks especially. We started here at the same time.
Yesterday and this morning I was in "on my knees, serious" prayer for you, not just passing thought prayers, and here you are!

I was planning on asking colleen for your email, to check in with you. I was remembering a conversation with your mother that you reported months ago, and wondered if you had been sucked in. (my paraphrase). Thats always my fear when dealing with my mother.

Some friends and I are starting a 21 day "fast" of sorts, beginning Feb 8 officially thru the end of the month. I started early:-). We are praying for each other, specifically for a CLEARER knowledge of God and His will for us. We are asking God to reveal truth, and for the enabling of the Holy Spirit to boldly move forward in the way He speaks to us. Email me if you want to join in, and Ill send you first names of those on board. Anyone else who wants to join to!

Denise, thanks for your Genesis study posts! Good stuff!. One thing from my John Study and the Good shepard---Did you know sheep are NEVER burden bearers! They do not carry loads on their backs, although they must sometimes be carried...

Grace, praying for you, and good to see you. I was convicted by this text last nite:

John 12:42-43 "Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in Him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise form God." Ouch.

Hugs and Prayers all,
JavaGirl
4excape@bellsouth.net
Javagirl
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Username: Javagirl

Post Number: 143
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yikes Julie,
That comment about being "sucked in" came out wrong. I meant to imply that for me it would feel like being "sucked back in" to the role of pleasing my mother, rather than following my convictions. To guote some statements by Colleen which clairified so much for me:

"Your guilt over not calling your parents is not necessarily guilt springing from something you did wrong. It's likely a habituated response based on years of being made to meet all their emotional needs. and .."Ask God to direct your relationship (or lack of it) with your parents. Ask Him to protect your mind and heart in Jesus, and ask Him to show you what is real and true and to give you the courage to stand in reality and to act based on truth."
Amen and Amen. Thats the essence of my prayers during my "fast".

Wooliee
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Username: Wooliee

Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Colleen, Denise, and JavaGirl. I have goosebumps JavaGirl that you were in prayer for me yesterday morning. Wow! Thank you so much, and that is just awesome how I came here. Visiting this forum was the last thing on my mind yesterday, but while I was studying I took a break and came here and God really spoke to my heart last night.

The last few weeks have had me focusing more and more again on what God wants me to do. For quite awhile now I have put it aside and use the excuse that I am just so busy with school to really even think about it. I have felt a nagging within me to get to the heart of what the Bible actually says instead of just being confused and frustrated. Nothing is more important than my walk with God, and I need to start living that way instead of making excuses.

Your comment about being "sucked in" is exactly right. That is how I have felt lately. I am definitely a people pleaser. I just want to make everyone hap, hap, happy! Someone told me recently that the goal is not to be liked, but to be respected. There are a few things that stick out at me lately about my need to be liked and make everyone happy that have made me stop and think that God must be trying to tell me something and I need to listen up.

"Ouch" is exactly my response to John 12:42-43. I am going to print that out and carry it around with me. I definitely need to be reminded of that often.

I will be e-mailing you JavaGirl. Thanks again!

Julie
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 2269
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Julie,
You are on my prayer list. My parents are dead and all of my family have not practised Adventism for years. So, I have not had any criticism for leaving the church. Even though I have not gone through what you are going through, I can pray for you and I will.
I never forget that God is so awesome.
Diana
Wooliee
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Username: Wooliee

Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Diana. I need all the prayers I can get! And you are right...God is so awesome.

:-)Julie

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