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Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 273
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you wade through my background here, I promise there is a question at the end of it!

background: My husband used to be SDA. He never went through a period of feeling resentful towards the SDA church, or disillusioned with it.
On the contrary, when I met him he was 100% enthusiastic about his church and about his experiences in it. He has many fond memories of camp meetings and pilgrimages to SDA historic sites. His whole family is SDA.
He came out of the church slowly, by being introduces to the power of true forgiveness that CHrist offers true believers. He had not ever heard of a relationship with Christ before I met him. Ge often says that God didn't point or warn him away from SDAism as much as he gently guided him into an arena where he would hear the truth. (which was a men's small group with a man who happened to be an ex-SDA).
So here we are today: We are 100% sold-out for Christ, attend a non-denominational church that is on fire for God and out to reach people for Him.
Meanwhile, my husband seems to still be grieving the loss of community (that the SDA church offered), feeling the sting of deception.

He doesn't hold any hard feelings towards the SDA church or the people in it. BUt he also doesn't seem to know how to talk to his SDA family, since their whole lives revolve around the church. He looks back at video of Pathfinders conventions etc. and hears the rhetoric and says it seems so foreign, so obviously cultish. But the fact that it seemed fine at the time, and that he has positive memories associated with it is confusing for him.

He prefers not to discuss it, and prefers to avoid conversations of either religious or even personal nature with his family.
I don't want him to avoid his family, though. I'd like to see him stay connected with them, especially if God has something we could share with them.
So how do I help my husband grieve the loss and move on to be able to relate to his family as an "outsider"?
Belvalew
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Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 913
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tealeaves, first of all let me say that you were truly a godsend for your husband, because through you he began to find his way to the real truth that is found in relationship with Christ. I also can understand how he feels because his entire life prior to meeting you was within the cocoon of Adventism. For some people they could spend their entire lives inside that place and never have a meaningful exchange with people who were not a part of that safety net.

We all miss this womblike environment when it is gone, and that leaves an emptiness to be dealt with, especially when we can see memebers of the family that are still there. It is especially difficult when there is suspicion and fear in the eyes of our loved ones. I see it all of the time at family reunions and have to simply smile and take it--hoping that I look about as dangerous as a bunny rabbit and knowing that they still hold their views of me being on the other side now.

I can't really tell you how to resolve that because the suspicion will be there, it's built into the cultic side of the religion. He will, in time, find other things to fill that void.
Lindylou
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Username: Lindylou

Post Number: 117
Registered: 1-2005


Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Tealeaves,

I can hear the wistful ache in your words. How does one help anyone going through grief? I'm not sure! How you interact with his family depends a lot on the family itself. Are they resentful and worried about you? Are they stand-offish? When you invite them to be included in your family functions is it easy or difficult for all involved? I suppose I can guess at the answer to that. Getting through the family entanglements is oh so difficult.

I don't know that there is a "happily ever after" kind of answer to your question. Any time you have a broken relationship, either with a person or community, it is difficult! And it takes time, sometimes years to develop new community relationships. But you know that already! Oh, for a magic wand! :-)

It seems to me that the fact that you have this concern is a wonderful asset for your husband. It is obvious that you care about his family and want to include them in your life, and that attitude can only help the both of you.

There has been quite a bit of tension between my family and my husband's family over the past year. We have all just been tip toeing around each other, pretending to avoid any kind of religious discussions or air our differences, but there's always been a sense of something being greatly out of kilter. Just recently, I was able to sit down and talk with my sister-in-law and get some things out in the open. What I realized is that as long as EGW is in the picture, there is really no point whatsoever in having any kind of discussion involving "religion" or spiritual matters. I even expressed that to her. The bottom line is to let God do the convicting - and pray that He will help us love them unconditionally.

I have resolved to make a point of including the family in our gatherings, kids activities, birthdays and other important events, but I can see it would be wise to avoid certain topics. The family dynamics will never be like they once were. One must just go through the stages of grief - and remember that there is hope on the other side!

I suppose gathering whatever support you can around you - like this forum, will help you get through it.

Sorry, I couldn't be more encouraging! Hang in there! You are not alone! For me, that is an important truth!





Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 274
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lindylou,
When we first got married, there was some tension about religious differences. In fac,t his parents told us they thought we'd be sorry we married within the first 5 years.
But we stood our ground, and the pastor who married us had our family and friends stand during the ceremony and pledge their support of our marriage in the sight of God.
I think his parents took that very seriously. We set boundaries, and they stuck to them well. There has been less and less tension ever since then. And this past December, we invited my husbands mother to go to China with us when we adopted our daughter. It was a great trip, and we got along perfectly. She and I climbed the Great Wall together.
She really is a loving supportive Mother. They don't seem to have hidden agendas and they don't push SDAism. I think my husband just has a hard time talking with them because they are SDA teachers and every thing they do revolves around the church. Every conversation they used to have revolved around the church and the people they knew in it.
So now, when we get together I do most of the talking to them. We talk about the grandkids (we have 2 sons and a daughter), about day to day life, I talk about what God is doing in our lives. And they seem very open to it. They don't seem to doubt that God is working in our non-SDA lives at all. My husband just tends to find other things to do though. He mows the lawn, washes the car, makes work calls.... All in all, his parents are pretty easy going and receptive, it is my husband that seems the most uncomfortable talking with them.
On the other hand, my husbands brother and the extended relatives do still have that awkward "you left the fold" thing in their voices and postures. And we don't go back East (where they all live) for the family functions. Mainly because the family reunion every year takes place at SDA Campmeeting in Maine. (We live in Washington State, and we don't want to go to an SDA campmeeting.)It makes it hard to keep in touch or have meaningful relationships with them, even if he wanted to.
My husband doesn't come to a former adventist discussion forum because he is afraid that there are a bunch of disgruntled ex-SDAs complaining. He feels that all SDAs were his family, not just his blood relatives, and even though he is apart from them, he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. He is one of those people who just can't stand to see anyone feel bad.
I think he also just plain doesn't want to dwell on something that was hurtful to him. He takes the "denial" approach rather than the "face it and get over it" approach.
Maybe you are right, it is just a stage of grieving, and the process is taking him longer than I would expect. (We have been married for 9 years and he hasn't gone to an SDA church for about 10 years.)
I just don't want to see him passively lose contact with his family out of avoidance of awkwardness.
This just convinces me more and more that SDAism is indeed a cult. It tears people apart, on the inside, and apart from each other.
Blah Blah Blah, sorry I ran on and on. It is just something that has been on my mind lately. Thanks for letting me ramble.
I appreciate your insight and shared experiences, thank you.
-tanya-

Lindylou
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Username: Lindylou

Post Number: 121
Registered: 1-2005


Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tanya, One thing I've had to realize about people - is that sometimes they are content and happy not to delve too deeply into controversy, they are fine with just letting things be and not rocking the boat. I am wondering if the emotions you are describing are YOURS or his? Sometimes we wish something for our loved ones that they don't even wish for themselves.

I know that I've had a history of trying to get "deep" and psychological with my loved ones - I want them to explore their psyche and try and remedy any broken relationships that they might have (according to MY perception of things.) I've had to accept of my own husband the fact that he could really care less about trying to "fix" any seemingly out of whack relationships with his family. I tend to push where he would rather just let be.

It sounds like you are doing a great job of staying connected with his family. It is wonderful that they are pretty accepting of you and that you can discuss spiritual matters.

You mentioned that your husband tends to find something to "do" rather than talk with his family. Is that his personality? Has that aspect changed with his church membership? Just a thought.

Here I am doing my psycho bit on you! :-) Glad you could ramble and talk about it. Never bothers me! (Where in WA do you live, if you don't mind sharing? - I'm from the Oregon side of the Walla Walla Valley)

Have a good evening. Linda
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3309
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, Tanya, Linda voiced what I had been thinking. You may have more anxiety about your husband's family than he does--or he may be OK with the distance between them for now.

As Linda says, people take time to work through their grief. Your sensitivity to him will be a great help.

Colleen
Anotherseeker
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Username: Anotherseeker

Post Number: 33
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone

Well i am feeling a little raw today concerning my not ringing my parents for fear of the SDA question coming up

As you already know Colleen from a previous post..i did tell them seperately about my not being happy with the doctrines of the church,but there appears to have been some subsequent denial that i ever had any such conversation.

However i found out today that they at some point contacted a family friend that is HIGH Conference and voiced their concern about me and checked whether i was being followed up.

I was told today that the person i was speaking with told the friend that they knew my every move.

SO NOT TRUE... as i only told them ONCE that i was leaving.

The point that i am trying to make is that i am realising that i am actually in fear of calling home especially as i was in receipt of an SDA book in the post from them recently.

I LITERALLY cannot drum up the courage to ring my own parents...THIS IS NOT GOOD!! Actually i find it quite worrying.

Colleen as you know there are also other issues surrounding the relationship,if you remember which makes it even more burdensome.

Since December i considered writing a letter and i mentioned it on here and someone had posted their letter to their parents on the forum but i do not know where to access it.

Also i do not know if LASTING EVIDENCE is good either as it could just exaggerate the situation and make more out of it.

I am now starting to really experience the HOLD of SDA in my life. I have no church life through fear of deception but i am still holding on to Christ.

Today after a phone conversation i was left realising that i just have to step into a church and get on with it because i am possibly being slowly pushed away from Christ without me realising it.

I am not fellowshipping because there is so much heresy around but i realise that that in itself can be a deception of the enemy to lure me away COMPLETELY.

PLEASE lift me in prayer folks as my prayer life is also quite barren...even though my mind is on God 95% of the time.

What is frightening is that it is comfortable not ringing home. I feel protected..i dont want to hear any condemnatory words again...or words that demean me and make me look like i dont understand the Word Of God

Dont wish to be told that i am CONFUSED!
Dont wish to be told that i have given the devil my youth and now its time for God
Dont wish to be told there is NO BETTER TRUTH out there.
Dont wish to be told about Shepherd Rod{wouldn't even know how to be one}

It's like i am waking up to the SERIOUSNESS of the Spiritual Hold SDA can have on you when you leave. I was only back for 2 years but i do have a 21 year history in it previously.

This is making me question my Faith In Christ and if SDA did infact have some supernatural home-coming thing to it that has stuck to my Spirit like a limpet ALL THE YEARS I WAS OUT OF IT TOO!!?

I HATE THIS!!

Dont get me wrong i do have faith in Christ its just that i am now wondering HOW MUCH sda has TAKEN my focus off The Christ The Son Of The Living God.

I never thought it...or felt it but i am now starting to feel a little Angry

I want to be the biggest campaigner against FALSE RELIGION,,,DOCTRINE. THIS IS SERIOUS ABUSE but i know they didn't mean it.

Can anyone say anything in response to this.

I feel like a broken record and a broken soul
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My husband used to have a very close connection with his mother. They used to talk all the time. He used to wax poetic about how wonderful it was to spend time with his family.
I used to be the one who wanted nothing to do with family gatherings etc. In fact, even now I really stress out over family events and try to back out. So it seemed very odd to me when, after we got married, his parents would come visit and he would bail on me and leave me alone with them.
Before we were married, before he left the SDA church, he did not act like that at all. (the first time we went to his extended family's house, he basically left me at the door and I didn't see him for hours because he was circulating, hugging, chatting, and reminiscing.)

If it was his general personality to disconnect and go elsewhere, I would think nothing of it. But the way he relates to them now is actually very different from how he used to interact with them. He really cherished time spent with them. He always talked about summers with his cousins, long talks with his uncles, etc... Now, his parents come out here in the summer for a week and a half, and I know thay want to see him too, not just me and the kids. He just doesn't know how to relate to them anymore, so he avoids them.
I am sure they wonder how to bridge the gap too. the one thing that they seem to have in common is the propensity to ignore the elephant under the rug, so to speak.
I just want to see God's will done in the situation.
I tend to tackle things head on, he tends to avoid entanglements. Both methods have their pros and cons. I just don't want to miss out on some ways to support his ability to move on and reconnect if that is valuable to him and to God.

For now, I pray about it, and leave it up to him to feel out. I do remind him when his parents come that they don't just come to see me, they also come to talk to him. He looks kind of sheepish and says that is probably true.
I just hope that I am not missing something I should be doing or saying support-wise.
-tanya-
Tealeaves
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Username: Tealeaves

Post Number: 276
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I live in Battle Ground WA, just North of Portland. My husband and I met at Walla Walla College.
Small world!
-tanya-
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3316
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First, Tanya, I really believe your husband has to work this out with his parents. I don't think there's anything you can really do to solve this problem besides be a sounding board for him. There really is a spiritual hold on Adventists, and in some ways it's stronger than the biological connection between family members.

For your husband to become so distant based on his leaving Adventism suggests to me that there's more going on in his family than he let on. Your description of his leaving you "stranded" the first time you visited also suggests to me that there could be some expectations that aren't visible to you and to which he may be a bit blind.

Anotherseeker, First of all, pray for God to guide you, and start going to church. You really need to be praying and studying with other Christians who will pray for you. You're right about the fear of deception being in the way of your growing in the body of Christ.

God already knows where He wants you to be in order to grow and continue to heal. Ask Him to guide you. He will. You need to be in fellowship with true believers, and you can't expect a "perfect" body. All Christ-followers are humans still growing in grace. The difference now is that true Christ-followers are alive in Him and filled with the Spirit. There is something REAL between you that is grounded in truth, not merely in tradition.

Second, based on the history with your family, I believe your guilt over not calling your parents may be a bit out of proportion. God does not expect us to try to fix relationshiups with people who have transgressed seriously against us and have not repented. He does ask us to admit to Him our own pain and dysfunction and accept His forgiveness and healing, but He doesn't ask us to restore relationships with people who are abusive and/or dangerous.

God does ask us to surrender these people to Him, leaving them with Him for both justice and mercy. Part of His setting us free is freeing us from our own twisted thinking that drives us to "play God" and fix those whom we cannot "fix".

Ask God to direct your relationship (or lack of it) with your parents. Ask Him to protect your mind and heart in Jesus, and ask Him to show you what is real and true and to give you the courage to stand in reality and to act based on truth.

God has to be the One we love, the one we worship and honor above all humans. Your guilt over not calling your parents is not necessarily guilt springing from something you did wrong. It's likely a habituated response based on years of being made to meet all their emotional needs. Only God can meet all our emotional needs, and certainly it is never our children's job to meet all our emotional needs!

Praying for you...
Colleen
Anotherseeker
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Post Number: 35
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Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankyou Colleen.

I know this is good Biblical advice. I just pray Father God that i can move forward in the light of your love.

Fearing nothing that man can do to me and basking in the joy of my salvation which is in Christ Jesus ALONE

Much Appreciated Colleen
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 112
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Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anotherseeker -- I think I can relate to your situation. I, too, quit going to the SDA church for the most part a couple of years ago and have been looking for something to fill that vacumm. It is obvious to me that Ellen White is so contrary to the Bible that there is no truth in her.

As I attempt to transition to a Biblically-based fellowship of believers, I have run into the usual resistance within the family to the concept of fellowshipping with any part of the Body of Christ that happens to meet together on Sunday. You know the story.

Other intermediate options have presented themselves for at least fellowshipping with non-SDA (since SDAs are fond of using that term) believers.

#1. I don't necessarily have to meet on Sunday. I can gain a blessing from other days of the week as well. That presents additional possibilities. I don't know how large a population you live near, but usually there are Bible studies, etc held at other churches on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays. I have just signed up for Bible Study Fellowship (http://www.bsfinternational.org/), and prior to that I was attending a short Bible study at a nearby Lutheran Church. Usually the big sign of "apostasy" for SDAs is not going to be attending group studies, etc, during the week. It is going to be the act of worshipping at a non-SDA church on Sunday. That helps me, at least, with the need to fellowship with other Christians that base their studies on the Bible instead of Ellen White (or Joseph Smith, or anyone else for that matter). True, it is not Sunday, but the most important thing for me is to have a group of vibrant Christians I can fellowship with some day of the week. BSF also has classes for children at the same time. Other SDAs that you know might like to attend it as well -- however they will have to base what they contribute on the bible, which is what they claim they do anyway!

#2. For actual church services, I have been listening weekly to Internet broadcasts. Not as good as being there, but certainly refreshing and inspiring. My favorite would probably be Clay Peck (ex-SDA) of Grace Place (http://www.graceplace.org/default.aspx?pid=51). There is also Mark Martin (another ex-SDA) of Calvary Chapel in Phoenix (http://www.calvaryphx.com/). A local church I may attend this coming Sunday, I have been watching for a while at http://www.slcevfree.org/worship/services.html
These are all stored online so they can be watched any time of the week that is convenient. They allow me to be there "in the spirit". It is so refreshing to hear Bible truths presented free from the false teachings of the patron saint, Ellen White. With Internet you have a wide variety of online church services you can watch.

#3. I have not run into significant resistance on the subject of 1844 & the Investigative Judgement. SDA's simply can't back it up from the Bible. Some good references for you are http://www.goodnewsunlimited.org/library/1979forum/index.cfm , http://www.jesusinstituteforum.org/AssetOrLiability.html , http://web2.airmail.net/billtod/cocc.htm . These are all conservative sources that Adventists will be very hard pressed to prove wrong. There are many more. Ask your SDA friends if they have ever read the entire book of Hebrews. It doesn't take that long. Ask them what it says. If they are giving you a hard time keep asking them about the book of Hebrews. What does it say. Then ask them to dust off their copy of Early Writings, pages 54-55, and ask them if they believe what it says there. Then ask them where it says that in Hebrews. Note especially Hebrews 4, 6, 8, 10. Read those over and over until you feel really clear about what it says there. Early Writings is so ludicrous as to be laughable if it wasn't blasphemy. Two thrones for God the Father? One in the Holy Place, and one in the Most Holy Place. And God the Father rides in a flaming chariot between the two? SDAs are the ones who don't know their own books. Keep them on this one subject until they have to come up for air, because they simply can't prove the concept from the Bible, and Ellen White's rendition is not something that I can imagine any of them wanting to explain.

Once they get to the point of admitting that such visions as Early Writings pages 54-55 are totally unsuportable from the Bible, then drive them to the Bible. They are the ones who can't support their position from the Bible. Agree with them on the value of the Seventh-day Sabbath, and ask them to refer you to a Bible-based Seventh-day Sabbath keeping church -- one that does not have a false prophet that teaches unsupportable teachings such as EW 54-55. When they can't produce one then tell them that you need Christian fellowship and might have to meet on Sunday until you find a similar 7th-day Sabbath-based church. The real fear for them is actually not even the day of the week, although they would never admit that. It is that the thought that they might actually be wrong. They have to arrive at that conclusion themselves and you are on solid ground with EW page 54-55. There is simply no way they can get past that. And then ask them what Satan is doing in the Holy Place! (end of page 55).

Let us know what kind of responses you get :-)

Hope this helps,

Gilbert Jorgensen
Anotherseeker
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Username: Anotherseeker

Post Number: 36
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Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WHOA Gilbert...thats a whole heap of information. I have saved 2 of the internet site's you mentioned as i already had Grace Place in my favourites.

I will have to get a copy of Early Writings to see the liable in there before i use it.

I do say "read this chapter" "read this verse" but i just get the feeling that they either dont or if they do they NEVER get back to me.

I do not have this 'Tete a Tete' with SDA'S very often but when i do i always direct them to the Bible as i know that they really want me to say that i read it on FAF or some other ENLIGHTENED Christian website or that someone told me.

I am not even that easy on them about the 7th day Sabbath and i usually focus on the new application of the law on born-again Saints Of God.

Its horrible being made to feel like some lower class citizen or half-baked Christian because you have left SDA. Its like we had a silver spoon for free and we spat it out as far as they are concerned.

If only they would realise that SALVATION is free and that their silver spoon is tarnished. I am really not enjoying how crippled this is starting to make me feel.

The frustrating thing is that even other Christians do not seem to understand why you dont just move on. No success for some of us without a struggle. Struggle is Victory turned inside out
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 3326
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Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anotherseeker, your feelings are NORMAL for leaving Adventism. When people leave this church, it takes an average of 2 to 5 years to "debrief" from it and to feel stabilized. The emotional and psychological impact of leaving is the same as for people leaving other cults. This fact alone shines the light of truth on Adventism.

Just know that you're experiencing the normal grief os losing an identity, and those still in the church are reacting exactly typically for people who remain in cults such as Johavah's Witnesses, Mormonism, etc.

The hope for you is staying close to Jesus and immersing yourself in His word. Pray about God guiding you to a fellowship of true Christ-followers who can support you.

Colleen
Jorgfe
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Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anotherseeker -- I'm sorry if I left you feeling like I was overloading you with too much :-)

I feel that we can plant the seed, but the Holy Spirit must do the convicting.

That said, I have reached a point where I no longer feel like we are the ones that have any explaining to do. It is Adventism and the Spirit of Nonsense that have lied to us (see for example the minutes from the 1919 Bible Conference at http://www.christiancommunitychurch.us/dovenet/sda1919c.htm)

Read these official minutes and you will clearly see that the top SDA leaders knew exactly what the problem was. And continue too...

Am I angry? Yes, I am angry. I have been deceived for the better part of my life by their baldface lies. And they still (I was going to say blindly, but they know exactly what they are doing!) insist on continuing to deceive both existing and prospective members. They lie out both sides of their mouths, and then say "What, me?"

For those who try to hang a guilt trip on us as though we are the "unfaithful", I am ready to point them back to the Gospel. That is what it is all about. And they simply can't support both the 1844 Message and the Gospel. They can't. It is that simple.

Gilbert
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 2261
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Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is why the various publishing houses are not identified as SDA and the revelation seminars and the various SDA programs are not labeled as SDA. They deliberately do not want anyone to know with whom they are connecting until the person is in their grasp.
Remember on another thread talking about baptism classes. Rotating SDA members are wanted in the class, but they are to be told not to bring up EGW or any controversial subject. My question was/is, if it is true, why not???
Diana
Susan_2
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Post Number: 2117
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Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, when you say it generally takes 2-5 years to get over the SDA hold when a person leaves Adventism I don't get what you are referring to? Do you mean for a former SDA to embrase a gosple centered Chriatian religion? Because it for sure wouldn't take 2-5 years to get over being SDA if a person just chucked all religion out the window or the folks who made up their minds as very young people who had no choice being SDA because they were raised SDA and always knew they'd split the cult at the soonest opportunity, etc. Please explain.
Jorgfe
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Post Number: 115
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Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you check my post at http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/3845.html?1138827956 you will see some of the "gems" in Early Writings, pages 54-55. Don't bother to purchase a copy. You can read it for free at http://www.nisbett.com/reference/ew/ew1.htm
Search for the chapter called "End of the 2300 Days" about 3/5 of the way down.

Many of her books are online at http://www.nisbett.com/reference/

Another gem is Word to the Little Flock at http://www.nisbett.com/pamphlets/printer/wlf.htm
I suspect that neither you, nor your Adventist friends knew that the Ark of the Covenant also had almonds, grapes and pomegranates (page 16).

"And I saw two long golden rods, on which hung silver wires, and on the wires most glorious grapes; one cluster was more than a man here could carry. And I saw Jesus step up and take of the manna, almonds, grapes and pomegranates, and bear them down to the city, and place them on the supper table. I stepped up to see how much was taken away, and there was just as much left; and we shouted Hallelujah--Amen."

Arthur Patrick, in AT Issue (http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/white/patrick/egw-affirm.htm) called her the "most creative individual within Sabbatarian Adventism". That is an understatement.

Gilbert
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3327
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, what I mean is that it takes 2-5 years to debrief from Adventism, just as it takes to debrief from any cult. I'm not referring to people who get fed up and leave; those people do not suffer the shunning, doubt, guilt, and loss of everything familiar that people experience when they leave the church for the sake of Jesus.

What I mean is it takes about 2-5 years AFTER embracing the gospel to sort through all the "adventisms" that have colored our thinking, our worldview, our understanding of Scriptureóall those things we have sincerely and deeply embraced. During that time we experience all the symptoms of grief: anger, bargaining, depression, denial, and finally acceptance. During that time we get the first acute shock of our friends turning aside, ignoring, criticizing, or attacking us.

Leaving Adventism is not like moving from the Baptist church to a Congregational church. It's leaving a whole culture, and it is shocking to leave.

Those who get fed up and leave usually retain a deep sense of Adventism being pretty much "right". They might resent it, not like it, want "out", but they still feel familiar in it. It's what they turn to when they start having babies--even though they thought they "hated" it when they were in school. People who leave because they deeply studied it and discovered Biblical truth, however, experience a completely different kind of loss.

Those who leave for the sake of Jesus are the ones who are shunned and criticized for their betrayal and for their "disgruntled", "critical" attitude. These are the ones who have to relearn everything they knew, because they realize their entire worldview was skewed.

Does that make sense?

Colleen
Lynne
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 253
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, I think Colleen means that when most people who have left the SDA church, or other cults, it usually takes them 2-5 years to heal and/or stabilize. It doesn't mean one cannot grasp the gospel.

If you have been learning/believing Adventism for 20 years like me, I'm not going to just become saved and the next day not remember anything I learned as an Adventist. Healing does take time in this church as with other churches that are cults.

I haven't been actively attending an SDA church for a few years now, but I have clung to the Adventist beliefs. So maybe it may take me only a year or two to really feel more stable and heal more. I feel much more stable now than I did a few months ago. Whereas someone who is a lifelong Adventist who just stopped attending church and has family in the church and was just saved, it might take 5-6 years to feel stable and heal.

Just as we didn't learn these things in one day, it usually takes a while for people to unlearn untruths and learn what is really true.

Someone who never believed it that is young, I don't know how long it might take, it depends on the individual. But I think stablizing might also mean realizing there is a different world out there as well as a different reality other than the culture and the teachings of the Adventist church. If a young person grows up in the church, who else has taught them? Children usually believe some of what they are taught.

I even believed things in the church that I didn't realize I believed. I guess that is what they call mind control or brainwashing.

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