| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 145 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi all, I talked to my mother yesterday, over the phone, re my spiritual journey thus far. I had been at church, and was just so convicted that NOW was the time, rather than in march as I had originally planned. I told her I had been attending a different church (Sunday), that I had rejected the writings of EGW, and told her of my growing disagreement with basic tenets of the SDA church. I was surprised that she basically wanted to argue. I did not. I wanted to share, but she just interrupted me, gave me grave warnings about walking on dangerous ground and being brainwashed. God did give me the grace to remain positive and firm. I was expecting a bigger explosion, and I suspect that it is yet to come. Im feeling really shaky ever since, like Iíve been run over by a steamroller feeling. Im sure some of that is just not wanting to hurt her. Anyway, I really need your prayers. Please pray for me, to have peace re this, and that I will be open to God's leading only. Please pray for my mom, as she is sure that I am bound for hell, because I have ěbeen given the light, and am now rejecting itî. Im sure she is devastated. Please pray for my dad as well, for God to guard his heart. I have spoken to him before, but not sure how much he comprehended in his illness. Please pray for God to protect him, and not let him worry about me. I just feel tremendously guilty, even tho I feel like I was led by God to speak up. This is bigger than I thought. Iím all over the place emotionally. One minute I'm a bit excited, then I am second guessing myself, then I start to think as my mother said, that God will use this experience to help me stay and build up the Adventist Church. Im disappointed that I don't just feel peace, it makes me question myself and this whole process. Please pray. Thanks, JavaGirl | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 399 Registered: 8-2004  |
Praying JavaGirl! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi Javagirl, Oh girl...I so know what you're feeling!! I know exactly what you're going through. First of all, I'm very proud of you! I know it was a big step, and a difficult one. Like you, the last thing I wanted to do was hurt my parents. I knew my 'coming out of the closet' would break their hearts. What they heard was, "I have chosen to go to Hell". Your mom's reaction, although hard to accept, is pretty normal I think. She just panicked and it came out as argumentative. I would have reacted the same way 8 years ago. Those deep in Adventism are innately fearful of anything anti-Adventist. Second, remember that guilt does not come from God. Conviction, yes. Guilt, no. I had to be reminded of that this weekend as well. Also, don't doubt your feelings of conviction. The devil loves to use doubt to weigh us down. I know this, because I constantly struggle with this myself, and have been working on trusting God's leading more. And like you, I'm all over the place with my emotions. It's hard to be excited and happy, when the ones you care about most can't understand your happiness. Not only do they not understand, but they think the feelings are from evil. So yes, I understand, and my heart goes out to you. We're blessed to have this forum where we can share our most intimate fears and doubts with others who have experienced this before. I know there will be many here who will be lifting you up in prayer and encouraging you. I will be... Grace | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2004 |
Javagirl, I know how you feel. I had to break the news to my parents also when I left the SDA Church some years ago. My parents are still 100% Dedicated SDA, and I still remember how they reacted. I'll be praying for you. It will get better. --Valerie | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2005 |
Javagirl, I am praying for you now. I will also pray for your mom and dad. Just keep praying and let the Holy Spirit take over. You are not alone! Lynne | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1299 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl, Grace, and all of you who are in this position of having to break this news to your parents, Keep in mind that this spirit of guilt and fear is not from God. I can think of no greater proof than all your stories above, that we are dealing with a very cultic system. If Adventism was just another denomination, then there would not be this problem, but the problem is Adventism is inspired by a different spirit, and is a different gospel. I will be praying for all of you. This process is very well worth it. I broke the news to my folks over 20 years ago, and no parents, especially my Dad could be more ingrained in Adventism. He and my mom took it very hard. For a long time I felt like the blacksheep of the family, because I led my older sister out also. But, God is faithful. Now my 90 year old dad is proudly playing the piano at a wonderful evangelical church every Sunday! My mom is still SDA, but goes with him. I had the joyful privilege of worshipping with them yesterday at this church. When my dad was playing, and then a prayer was said, then I placed my arm around my mom, and she was very happy. She even took communion with me yesterday, and she previously would not do that. Yes, this process took so many years, but to see God's faithfulness in all of this brought tears of joy to me yesterday while worshipping with them. Stan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2281 Registered: 3-2004  |
Praying for you Javagirl. As Stan said, the doubts are not from God. I have experienced that one cannot have a negative thought and a positive thought in your head at the same time. Doubts are negative. So what I do when I start getting them is get out my mental gratitude list. I have over 100 things on my list. I thank God for one thing at a time and before I am half way through it my doubts are gone. Thanking God takes my mind off the doubts and is giving glory to God. Just a thought that you might try. I am praying for you. Stan, I am so glad about your Mom taking communion with you yesterday. God is answering your prayers. Diana | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 104 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dear Javagirl. I am praying for you as I can understand exactly how you feel. You have found joy in Jesus and it is difficult when those around you are threatened by your understanding. You will find that most Adventists have never even considered that they might be wrong. No amount of Scriptural support will ease their minds because this is all they know. They are not used to systematic Bible study. I mean who needs it when you have the truth. I have often thought that if the Apostle Paul showed up next Sabbath at any SDA church and preached ANY ONE of the Epistles be it Romans, Colossians, Galatians, etc, he would be summarily dismissed as an apostate and disfellowshiped for teaching heresy. If you accept Paul's messages as written,you CANNOT be an Observant or Adherent Adventist. How Paul describes Christianity is diametrically opposed to Adventist dogma. If anybody doubts this, I challenge them to do the study and comparison. On the other hand, if Ellen White showed up to any Adventist church this coming Sabbath and preached or read a chapter from almost any of her testimonies, or any other rebuke, she would be summarily dismissed as a wing nut. I believe one sermon would lay to rest the "authoritative and continuing source of TRUTH" idea. It speaks volumes when those around you are threatened or challenged by you finding and accept Jesus and His leading. Their only security is the belief that their membership in the Adventist Church is their ticket to eternity. I have stated before that you can be a dead in the water SDA and everybody is happy, but the minute you follow the Holy Spirit into a relationship with Jesus and out of the legalism of Adventism, all bets on your salvation are off. There is a major problem with this theological mindset. It is cultic and not at all what I find in the Bible. I am praying for you to have strength and patience. God is leading you in your quest for spiritual wholeness. Titus 3:9 states "But avoid foolish disputes, geanealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless." NKJV. You will find that absolutely every discussion you will have will regard "strivings about the law". Paul states this is "unprofitable and useless". When your whole identity, uniqueness and theological reason for existence is "strivings about the law" it is a serious blow when you realize it doesn't matter. I will also pray for your loved ones. Hold fast, Randy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 928 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Javagirl, Over 20 years ago I sat in a hospital at my father's bedside, it was the last time I saw him this side of heaven, and he was literally begging me to return to the Adventist fold because he knew that he was dying and couldn't bear to think that I might not be saved. I had to assure him over and over that I loved the Lord from the depths of my heart, and I promised him that we would meet in the Earth Made New. I intend to keep that promise because I know how much my Dad loved the Lord, and I am certain that he is now waiting for me there. I am also certain that when he got there he was in shock, but I trust the Lord made everything clear to him. I have shaken in my boots after being on the phone with my mother just as you described, but in my bones I knew that I had the confidence that comes only from knowing that Jesus loves me and has provided a safe haven for me, both here and forevermore. He has provided that same safe haven for you, and your parents. We are all praying for the light to dawn. Be prepared to have to wait to see the results, however. Remember the jailer that Peter baptized after the earthquake opened all of the jail cells? Peter promised that his faith had saved him and his household. That is a promise to claim for yourself and your household. I don't feel presumptious when I say that. I have been working on my family since I found out the real truth, and I've seen my sister go to her reward, firm in the faith, and my two brothers are now claiming the promises of Jesus without reservation. It takes faith and time. Through Jesus we have all of each that is required. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 146 Registered: 6-2005 |
I really appreciate all your prayers. I dont for one second doubt the conviction I felt on my heart from God. It came with clarity, peace, and confirmation as well. My thoughts are that perhaps God called me to speak up now, before I turned down a dangerous path. I think it all boils down to the Sabbath to me still. I thought I had given that up. I certainly dont see how grace and any law keeping can mesh. THey are at odds, and without grace, I am hopeless, I know that. I just heard about 20 times in 2 hours yesterday how the sabbath was given at creation, how it was hallowed and blessed, and that God doesnt change. I wonder if the text that says the veil remains whenever the law is preached is in effect her. I feel like that exactly. Like I dont know anything at all that I have known as truth the last few months. It does feel like a spiritual battle, as a friend suggested to me, as I feel pulled in two directions. Im embarrased that I am rambling, Im just really raw. And I feel so bad about hurting my parents, as they have so much going on right now. I'm clear on only one thing, and that is that I am committed to following Jesus, whatever the cost. So what I really need prayer for it to be clear on the next step. Thanks for a concrete suggestion Diana--I do love to praise God. Grace, Im praying for you too. I'll email you tomorrow. hugs all JavaGirl | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2005 |
JavaGirl -- I, too, took a big step yesterday. I actually went to a Sunday Bible study and worship service at a nearby Evangelical Free Church that I had been watching over Internet. I know it must sound crazy to anyone who is not an Adventist. That "Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast" grip is so strong that only those who have gone through the transition can relate to it. The people were delightful, warm and friendly. I would invite anyone to attend there. It was wonderful! There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I did the right thing, and I plan to go back this next week and probably take my 10-year-old son. The Sunday School Bible study was on "Tuning up the Mercedes Church: Biblical Theology, or 'Doctrine-Lite = Christian-Lite'". This is one in a series of studies. Last week I understand that they covered "Expository Preaching". Next week is about "Prayer". The following week is about "Evangelism and Salvation" and will be given by the Senior Pastor. There were probably at least 75-100 people in this study class -- one of a number of classes. The teacher talked about not just taking what he or the pastor said, but actually searching the scriptures to see whether what is being taught is biblical. One of the many Bible verses he had us take turns reading was Galatians 1:8-9: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" That was just one of a whole bunch of Bible texts on a 3-page handout! Can you imagine what would happen if a teacher go up in an SDA Sabbath School class and told everyone to ignore him, the pastor, and Ellen White if any of them did not agree with the Bible. The Evangelical Free Church is absolutely serious about this. It was so refreshing. I was just blown away. The teacher (a different one each week -- and the other teachers couldn't wait to insert their 2 cents worth) also covered categories of doctrine: "Some are foundational and non-negotiable, others are debatable but it's pretty advantageous if the people in the congregation generally agree on them, and still others we can have great liberty in one of multiple beliefs." He also talked about "How do we obtain sound doctrine?" and stated "Everything is validated by the Bible. If it doesn't agree we throw it out." The pastor also happened to be in the room at the time. He agreed completely. Can you imagine what would happen if an SDA pastor said that? He, like Clay Peck, Mark Martin and many other former SDA pastors, would loose his job! Other shocking (and absolutely exciting) statements the teacher made were: "I don't think anyone would say that you can't be a Presbyterian and be saved." "We can get along with other Christians who think differently than we do as long as they base their beliefs on the Bible." "Everything else -- justify Biblically. Use charity for those who disagree." "I disagree with you. I can still love you." Imagine that! JavaGirl -- Jesus died for each of us. After attending this service I felt a little bit ashamed for being so indecisive in moving forward. I think you can all understand. I am so excited by the refreshing approach to the Gospel displayed there. The people are alive and friendly -- and yet the sermons are very thoughtful and Biblically based. What a treasure! The worship service sermon was about Jonah and was equally good. As I attended Sunday, it became so much easier to see the legalist, judgemental, self-centered, cultic attitude that Ellen White indoctrinated in each of us during the time we were past SDAs. It is only by looking at Adventism from the outside that we can really see all of the false doctrine of Ellen White. It permeates and twists every SDA teaching. After attending Sunday, there is no way you could keep me away. It was reverent, joyful and purposeful! By standing up for what I believe, it has actually had a very positive effect on my dear wife. She is now even finding additional un-Biblical discrepancies in what Ellen White wrote. As a result of her recent study, she now really values what Desmond Ford has thoughtfully researched and written about Adventism's "Investigative Judgement". The disconnect between the Bible and Ellen White's writings have been a real eye opener to her. After our reading the full book of Hebrews together, she just had to shake her head over Early Writings, page 54-55. Hebrews is so clear even a child can understand it. The many excellent points in a new book I just purchased, "White Washed" by Sidney Cleveland, just add to that. This is an excellent book for anyone who is remotely interested in understanding more of the false teachings of Ellen White. I'm sure that you can appreciate all of the "discussions" that we have had to get to this point in our family's spiritual journey. God is very good. I pray for guidance as to best know when to speak with "holy boldness" and when to back off. "Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32 Praise God from whom all blessings flow! Gilbert | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3352 Registered: 12-2003  |
Wow, Gilbert--what an awesome step you took! Isn't it amazing how God confirms Himself to us when we act in faith and trust in Him. JavaGirl, praying for you. God is faithful! He will confirm the truth to you, and he will hold your mother's heart. Snowboardingmom, praying for you, too! Colleen | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2004 |
Gilbert, Thank-you for your wonderful post. So much of what you have said mirrors my experience of last year when I first attended Trinity Baptist here in Kelowna. I just cried as I sat through the wonderful service and could not believe this was in my community and I had missed this blessing for 19 years. This church has programs 7 days a week from morning til night for all age groups. The unfettered joy, the acceptance of all, the lack of pretense, the sharing of Jesus love, and not one word about the holiness of the day. Now I go every week either Saturday night or Sunday morning and feel that same joy and peace that comes from praising God and knowing that it is my relationship with Him that counts and not a day of worship or a denominational membership. I worship God every day now and try to share that joy. There is a continual sadness that you will come to know. That sadness comes from realizing that your children and family are not sharing this spiritual feast with you. I recognize that God works in His time and God has a plan. I just wish my Damascus moment would have happened years ago. Alas, I leave it up to God and offer myself to be used as He sees fit. Gilbert, as you come to appreciate the joy of Christianity in your new fellowship, it will become crystal clear as to what God's direction will be. You will become a powerful beacon to those in your influence and you will be a mouthpiece for truth. The most adamant and influentual non-smoker is an ex-smoker. They have felt the bondage, they know the excuses, they know and can empathize with the struggles of the addiction, they recognize the trauma involved to break free. As you move from theological bondage to spiritual freedom have faith that God will lead those close to you. Its easy to say,but tough to do. Spoken by one on a similar journey. Prayers for all, Randy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 401 Registered: 8-2004 |
How awesome Gilbert!! I'm so glad that you 'got up and went' and were blessed!! God meets us so much closer than 'half way'! I pray that your whole family will continue to walk in Him. God loves you ALL so much, and is drawing you to Himself! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 633 Registered: 7-2004 |
JavaGirl, Gilbert, Randy... What a way to start my day...your words and your committment to Jesus and His leading are so inspirational I feel I have already had my own quiet time with Him. THANK YOU for sharing your love, excitment, reverance of where God is leading. I will always praise God for His leading in this forum and the ministry of Colleen and Richard Tinker. All of you on this forum are in my prayers and in my praise of thanksgiving to the wonderful Savior who has set us free in His love! GIVE ME JESUS! Denise | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 745 Registered: 1-2003 |
Java girl...I was liberated in August of 2002 (has it been over 3.5 years??!! Amazing!) and I still have the feelings you are having. Just last night I let the old feelings of doom creep in...all because I am not patient enough to wait on the Lord and trust Him. A couple of semi-bad things have happened in our family and we have decisions to make and I want God to clearly tell me what to do and He hasn't done it yet. Then I think, maybe it's me...the old SDA tapes start playing about Sabbath and Tithe blessings and I start to get really discouraged. (Though when I was keeping the Sabbath and paying tithe, things weren't any better!) So it's my problem. I think what adds to it is my Mother (74yrs. old) who pops up with little SDA mindset comments quite frequently. The good part is...my SDA husband goes to church with me on Sunday and is now calling it "our church" and freely admits you cannot find what they have in an SDA church. So I have been blessed. The old tapes in our heads are hard to erase!! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 746 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jorgfe...my pastor says the same thing. We attend a bible study on Wed. night and he said there are a few basic things all Christians should agree on and the rest is an individual thing. The Godhead (Trinity), Christ Jesus' divinity (God in the Flesh), and the Gospel are basics. The other stuff (Revelation, pre-trib, post-trib...and other non-salvational stuff) shouldn't separate Christians. Wow!!! Wish the SDA could enbrace this!!! | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 147 Registered: 6-2005 |
Well I am feeling much more grounded today, and am able to commune with the Holy of Holies. What a relief! I thank you all for your prayers and words... Gilbert, Im excited for you. I have experienced those diferences as well. I wish I could make a chart sorta like this. Adventist Church vs. Current church Hate Praise and Worship vs.Love Praise and Worship Dread Going vs. Look forward to going. Faces of condemnantion vs Faces of Grace. Boredom vs eagerness to hear and soak up. Compelled to walk out vs Compelled to cry out to God. I too have felt amazed at what I have missed, not just in a local church body, but in a world full of brothers and sisters in Christ. THe indwelling Holy Spirit meeting the face of the indwelling Holy Spirit in another is an instant deep bond. I dont know what happened to me the last two days, but it wasnt pretty. Randy thanks for the text: Titus 3:9 states "But avoid foolish disputes, geanealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless." NKJV. And for prayers for spiritual wholeness. Pheeki, I will pray. My spiritually AWOL husband will not go to any church anymore, but He did ask me last night why I would even consider returning to Sabbath Keeping in light of the fact that I was in the best spritiual place I had ever been in my life! Very good to hear, from someone who used to sabotage and mock my spiritual fervor! (otherwise a great guy, just bitter toward God and religion) God's rich blessings all, JavaGirl | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 148 Registered: 6-2005 |
Well I am feeling much more grounded today, and am able to commune with the Holy of Holies. What a relief! I thank you all for your prayers and words... Gilbert, Im excited for you. I have experienced those diferences as well. I wish I could make a chart sorta like this. Adventist Church vs. Current church Hate Praise and Worship vs.Love Praise and Worship Dread Going vs. Look forward to going. Faces of condemnantion vs Faces of Grace. Boredom vs eagerness to hear and soak up. Compelled to walk out vs Compelled to cry out to God. I too have felt amazed at what I have missed, not just in a local church body, but in a world full of brothers and sisters in Christ. THe indwelling Holy Spirit meeting the face of the indwelling Holy Spirit in another is an instant deep bond. I dont know what happened to me the last two days, but it wasnt pretty. Randy thanks for the text: Titus 3:9 states "But avoid foolish disputes, geanealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless." NKJV. And for prayers for spiritual wholeness. Pheeki, I will pray. My spiritually AWOL husband will not go to any church anymore, but He did ask me last night why I would even consider returning to Sabbath Keeping in light of the fact that I was in the best spritiual place I had ever been in my life! Very good to hear, from someone who used to sabotage and mock my spiritual fervor! (otherwise a great guy, just bitter toward God and religion) God's rich blessings all, JavaGirl | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 149 Registered: 6-2005 |
Grrrr when I tried to post, it said "...internal error..." So i posted again. Then I got to thinking about how true that was...about the "internal error" and had to laugh! God sure has a sense of humor! |
