| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.adventistreview.org/2003-1516/story4.html "One question that occupies my students is whether they could keep the Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, yet still worship with their family in church on Sunday. I've read in Christianity Today that Michael Card, the noted performer of contemporary Christian music, does just that." Gilbert | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 290 Registered: 10-2005 |
Actually, that was something I knew when I was Adventist. I set the day aside to rest, not always go to church. Ex. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12- 15. Eventually I realized I would never be able to keep the Sabbath as perfectly as I wanted, to please God. I've known leadership in the Adventist church that go to church on Sunday because they work in the church on the Sabbath. I'm sure the GC accepts this because the adventists mix with other Christians and it makes the Adventist church look more evangelical. Anything to make the deception not look deceptive. Perfect rest is only in Jesus. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 588 Registered: 4-2000  |
The author wrongly claims that the Deut. 5 version of the Ten Commandments refers to the Sabbath being given at creation. No corporate worship on Sabbath is mandated in either version of the Decalogue. Indeed, the Israelites were to stay in their dwelling throughout the Sabbath. I find it puzzling how devout Adventists can comfortably ignore Ellen White's prohibition against washing dishes and shaving on the Sabbath. Obviously, they pick-and-choose Sabbath rules from both Ellen White and the Bible. Clearly, Adventists are not even trying to obey the biblical directives for the weekly Sabbath. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3395 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sigh. The article just makes me feel tired. You know, no matter what they say or do, Adventists will always embrace a blurred, compromised gospel as long as they rationalize away the deceptive foundation of the church. No matter how much they try to change it from within, true freedom, true gospel isn't there. It really does become necessary to renounce Ellen and to be willing to abandon the false foundation. The concerns with the WCG exemplify the problems of trying to reform a cultic church. I understand people's reluctance to leave; believe me, I loved the church and didn't want to leave. I kept hoping that somewhere, somehow, Adventism would "come clean" about the Sabbath. But one cannot have a sound structure on top of a faulty foundation. One cannot rebuild the true gospel on top of deception. The underlying deception still claims the people. Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 144 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen and Dennis -- I have really valued your perception. What you say is so true. As much as we want to, we cannot "put new wine in old wineskins." We all "wish" that reform within the Seventh-day Adventist organization would find fertile ground in which the Holy Spirit could nurture it, but the corporate "heart" is so hardened that it seems no amount of logic is able to break through. That said, I am still dumbfounded at how the official church paper encourages this type of thinking, while at the same time crucifying someone like Desmond Ford, Ballenger, et. al, who are doing everything that they can to remain faithful to God's Word and still support the church they love. Why doesn't the Adventist Review publish a similar article about the legitimacy of Ellen White or the Investigative Judgement. That is, to me, the real travesty. Colleen makes such an excellent point in noting that the mindset would still not go away in a vacuum where these false doctrines have been removed. Only following the mandate, "Come out of her, my people", will do it. It is really all about putting Christ and the Gospel first and following wherever He leads us. I find the deeply ingrained teaching of Ellen White that we "must be perfect", "we must try harder", "we are NOT trying hard enough", to be so hard to let go of. As I move away from Adventism, that seems to be the hardest thing to really get rid of. In my own life, it seems to me like the root problem is that Adventism/Ellen White (despite the many conflicting statements that are all over the board) boils down to the simple proposition that I can't really expect God's blessings because there is still room for me to try harder, while other denominations such as Evangelical Free, Lutheran, etc, approach it from the viewpoint of "No matter how hard I try under my own power, until I totally relinquish myself to God's control and guidance, what I do will make no difference." I keep telling myself, "O ye of little faith!", and this dragon of deeply engrained teaching called Adventism/Ellen White keeps haunting me with almost a hideous laugh that says "But you must try harder!" I just wish I could have the simple faith of those who have never been exposed to the cultic doctrines of Adventism. "Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement." Testimonies, vol 5, p 214 "No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words, 'I am saved', till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God." "As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, 'I am saved'." Selected Messages, Vol 1, p 314 Consciously we can tell ourselves that we now no longer believe these falsehoods, but it is like a leopard trying to change his spots. Gilbert | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 749 Registered: 1-2003 |
I read the article, and through 3/4 of it my heart was encouraged...I thought he would end the article with "we are free to gather to worship on any day". Instead, he brings it back around to congregating on the Sabbath, after pointing out that traditionally it was a stay at home day. Very depressing. I suppose he had to add the last part to get it printed...maybe he is hoping the body of the article will plant some seeds for someone to think out of the box! | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 150 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pheeki, That very process, encouraging thought out of the box and then bringing one back to the traditional interpretation is a perfect description of my experience studying theology at WWC. ÖOver and over weíd discuss the hundreds of angles of 5+5=10 and then conclude the class with a round-about explanation on how 5 and 5 really makes 11. I am SO AMAZED even a year and a half after our rescue from Adventism, how simple the Gospel is, and HOW APPLICABLE to real life it is. I praise God for the plain teaching, for the truth. Lisa | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2004 |
Lisa, You are so right in that Adventists love to talk about freedom and liberty, however it is always within the confines of the "yoke of bondage". They just can not accept that it is as simple as the New Teastament describes it. To let go of that "yoke" would be a repudiation of everything that Adventism is. Nice to see you here again, Randy | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2000 |
NEW SDA PROOF-TEXT After ignoring Leviticus 23:3 for scores of years, Adventist apologists have discovered the mistranslation of the NIV Bible with this passage being a real gem to promote worship on the Jewish Sabbath. The NIV wrongly translates this passage as "a day of sacred assembly." Furthermore, the NIV does not allude to it being "a sabbath to the Lord IN ALL YOUR DWELLINGS" (Lev. 23:3 NASB) or "a Sabbath to the Lord IN ALL YOUR DWELLING PLACES" (ESV). Moffatt's translation says, "IN ALL YOUR ABODES." Dennis Fischer | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 153 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Randy... I continue to read but don't write very often. To tell you the truth, it amazes me how sad I still am, missing what I knew, and those who knew me. I love where God has brought us, it's just a lonely new place with people who really have no bad intentions but have their own lives. I'm starting to see God give us little things to fill in the loneliness, but it was such a gift to know and have been known from a child on, that I have to accept that hole in my heart may never be patched until we meet Jesus Christ our own Father face to face. OK, that all sounds so melancholy cuz it is I guess. God has asked us to make another change and we just started a new company, so all the long time friends at the former job are no longer a daily source of support. Guess God is pulling away any artificial props so we can experience Himself in all His power. Actually, having a purpose beyond us, and acting in faith is a strengthening process, something we are in need of just now. So thank you, FAF, for being there. I am praying God's Mighty Spirit upon you this coming weekend that you see God work in that SDA saturated Riverside Area. Lisa | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 952 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'll pray that you can fill the void in your heart very soon with a new church/work family that will be absolutely sold-out to Jesus, and a wonderful support system to you and your family. You are being transplanted by the Master Gardener. The plant being uprooted often doesn't know it is for its own good, and will sometimes wilt and be faint for a time, but once established in it's new place in the sun it will produce much better than it ever would have in its original position! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3400 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lisa, Praying for God to heal and fill your heart. It's so painful to leave behind everything you loved. Jesus, though, is worth all the lossóas you know! He will be faithful. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2310 Registered: 3-2004  |
Lisa, I am praying for you that God heal and fill your heart. He promises you so much in way of family on this earth. I have found a family on this web site and have met a number of people from here. They are my family, even closer than some of my brothers and sisters. He has done the same from the people at church. God will do the same for you. Diana |
