| Author | Message | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2006 |
I hope I spelled that right--Sabbotismos.  That Greek word changed me in 1996, after a very, very long 'journey' out of Adventism. Sabbotismos--'Perpetual Rest'-- Hebrews 4:9--Vine's English/Greek Expository Dictionary. The Light of Christ hit me...for good, forever. ***Perpetual*** Not a 24 hr. day, once a week. Always, every second, permeated within me. Only, always, could that be Christ alone, perpetual rest in him. From the burden and pressure of my own 'works' and efforts towards perfection, salvation and 'heaven'. (translate-SDA doctrine) From then on, I *knew*, **Jesus is The Sabbath**, and all of the OT symbolism and shadows made sense, at last. Then I found studies from people, who explained even more so what the Holy Spirit had revealed to me from scripture. Confirmation. And I found the Lutheran church, who believed as I had found in scripture, including in eschotology. Also, most importantly, Christ alone, Grace alone, faith alone and scripture alone. All of my life, my mother would tell me that the NT supported the Sabbath like the OT, 'proving' it by Hebrews 4:9. Since I was a 4th generation baby born into the flock, I had no reference to dispute that and could not argue with the verse. It said 'rest', didn't it?! Rest meant Sabbath! Case closed. And if I did not keep the Sabbath, I would go to hell and burn. How long, I didn't know, but any burning isn't that fun. End Times and 'The Close of Probabtion' scared and fascinated me at the same time. These were subjects discussed obsessively in our home and we went to every 'Revelation Seminar' (or whatever they were called in the 60's and 70's. I am 44 y/o, now), which came along in L.A. and, later, Colorado. I think I had about 5 'It is Written' free Bibles from his seminars because I kept giving my heart (or something) to Jesus (or something) as a child. I always wanted the Bibles. (I am not being fecetious. I knew how to navigate the system. I was very young and it is very sad) Befoe this revelation in 1996, in the 80's I had read Walter rEa's 'Teh White Lie' and Mary Kay Silvewr's book (I think it was titled 'Betrayal') and had left the fdenomination 'officalyy', not desireding to be a part of such corruptin and very cynical about Ellen. bUT Evil had niggled my brain with it's brainwashed EGW filters with teh doubt-thoughts "What if they are right?!!!" 'The Fear Factor', as all cults have to *keep* their members... Sabbotismos set me free, for good from that.(this was there right from the beginning of Adventism) Scripture, alone, through the Holy Spirit, set me free. I kept on seeking... and nagging God! "Show me, show me. I can't stand this, show me what is Truth!!!" He did. I grew up in fear for the obvious reasons I've seen discussed here. I am so grateful for this place and all of you. I have lurked for a few years, but I was not ready to post. Something in me just hurt and twisted my gut to thik of writing out my journey. I think things were just too close to home with my family or something. (or, perhaps, it was the stress of my marriage, which has ended, now) Now, God must have made me stronger in Christ or something because most of these difficult family members are still near me, but I more detached. I can shrug off things and let go and let God be God. Just pray. I mean difficlut in that several believe that I and my children are going to hell, and my father, every once in a while (and very recently in an ugly letter) tells me so. I did not raise my kids as SDA's nor vegetarians as I am, so we are'heretics'. (My sister, the Catholic, is beyond the Pale, I guess) The more mild-talking (to me) conservative SDA sister and family see us as missionary projects, which is more annoying than anything. We just smile and talk about Jesus and grace to them as we can, if they don't push it. (they've told my girls that their earrings are ugly and hurt them, but some people have no tact to begin with) It is hard and alientated to not be 'in the club' at times, when they get going, but I do not regret it, ever. I found Christ. Well, he made sure he found me. Praise him! This is kind of all over the place. I could write a book about my 'journey' and all the different types of spiritual things I tried (after graduation at 17, not going to church anymore), including Christian stuff. I'll just say that I am content, now. And that I feel most comfortable with ex-SDA's, who know of our Lord and his grace from the cross; Jesus Christ, died and risen. It is rare to find people like you all, with your peace, fruits of the Spirit, and depth of scriptural understanding. So many ex-SDA's either go to no god or something mystical like the New Age. I am truly glad to know all of you. So many things you have posted through the years resonate with me sooo deeply and in such a familiar way, so profoundly! Is there anyone in Colorado? Or anyone, who went to Campion Academy? Christ bless you all, abundantly. I pray for you. Cathy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 753 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks for your testimony. I was liberated by the Holy Spirit in August 2002...and I too experienced "If you leave us you are lost because salvation is through US!" | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3424 Registered: 12-2003  |
Cathy2, thank you for sharing your poignant story. I understand the trauma and avoidance of dealing with ALL the pain of your life during a difficult marriage. Praise God that He knows your needs and His plans for you (as well as for your former husband), and He is bringing you to new places of healing and resolution. He is so faithful. Colleen | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 403 Registered: 1-2003  |
Cathy2 I want to also thankyou for your story. I'm also going through some of the same aha moments in respect to the word "Sabbotismos". I have not left the church but I'm sure my parents and family realize that I'm not what you would call "traditional". God is quietly speaking to me in scripture and through His spirit revealing to me new truths from scripture. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2006 |
Richard and everyone, scripture is sooo precious and necessary wherever one is at, whichever denomination we are in, seeking our Lord. It is the seeking and his seeking us, which is important. He will find us, he will guide us to himself and his graces, we will arrive in his timing, at our own pace, in his will; not anyone else's, not even our own will. In spite of ourselves, he delivers. I can vouch for that (in numourous ways, not just Adventist legaism vs. grace)! God bless you and thank you for your gentle spirit here. Scripture is not only a tremendously, infinite deep treasure and gift, but I always recall 'The Word became flesh...'. God became a little baby, crying for his mama. To me, they are Living Words. Soemthing about them, after hearing or reading, praying the verses in thought, transforms me and a richness of understanding, secure peace and a depth of change Becomes, in God's timing, within myself...something I *cannot* do on my own within myself.Sometimes, in moments, sometimes, years. I am sooo grateful for that to my Lord! After writng what I did about my fmaily, I want you to know that I do love them very much and hurt for them even more. I hurt that they internally suffer under pressures from not knowing true Grace, the real Jesus and never feeling 'good enough'. I pray constantly that they will be set free, someday. But they live as loving Christians the best they know. They are not monsters. I know all of you can relate, when things do hurt from SDA family, the invalidations. And, yes, Colleen, (thank you) Christ has been with me through all trials. My husband left God and lives with a 'Shamman' now, but we pray for him (The marriage is scripturally quite over for 3 years, though). My children do not understanbd and the teens are pretty angry right now; the youngest pretty hurt. They could use prayer. Thank you Colleen and Richard for this place. Christ is here. Cathy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 754 Registered: 1-2003 |
What on God's green earth is a Shamman? Is that a witch doctor? How did this happen????!!!! Was he SDA? A lot of my SDA relatives who left the church became athiests. I think DM Canright said in one of his books that SDAism was very good at producing infidels. So true! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2005 |
Cathy - thank you so much for your testimony. You will find love and acceptance here. I think most of us share this "journey" with you. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 184 Registered: 4-2005  |
Pheeki, A Shaman is similar to a priest or holy man by some indiginous tribes/peoples, or medicine man. By drumming an individual can enter into an altered state of consciousness and "journey" -similar in some ways to a trance or vision. You can be conscious of what is going on, and still remain in a "journey." It's like a very REAL dream; messages can be given/received. Those involved in shamanism receive messages and communicate with "spirits" they believe guide them, in even such matters as where to go fishing. They do not lead you to the Bible or to Christ in most instances but into an occult like experience which alters consciousness and can lead people away from biblical beliefs. I baptized a person and united he and his wife in marriage, who once rejoiced in justification by faith; but now rejects that, and the total inspiration of Scripture but communicates with these "spirits" on a regular basis. JWD | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 755 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ick! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2329 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cathy2, Thank you for telling us about your journey. I learned about Sabatismos this weekend and it really means rest in Greek. I will remember you and your children in my prayers. You are precious in God's sight and He will carry you through this and will not drop you. He is always so awesome. Diana | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thank you, Flyinglady, for your prayers. Prayers are so powerful! (And I am willing to pray for anyone else, whom needs them) I have always been uplifted by the love of Christ in you, what you post, and your praises of him on this forum. You are a very dear lady! (Is 'Flyinglady from the F.L.Y. Lady? If so, isn't she helpful and sweet?!) When I found 'Sabatismos' in Vine's (Which I trust very much as a reliable reference), I was impressed that this word in Hebrews 4:9 is used only there in the entire Bible for this particular type of 'rest'...perpetual. Paul was emphasising Christ most clearly to those, who could read. Of course, we miss the original, sadly. Later, I bought more Bible Greek-Hebrew-English references and still need to study more. there is so much depth to learn of, to learn of Jesus, isn't there?! God bless your sweet spirit~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pheeki, Hi! I have been blessed to read your posts in the past and I am glad to meet you! Earlier today I was writing an answer to your questions, but, somehow, a lotion bottle just jumped off a shelf onto the keyboard and the computer went off the Net! Post gone. I was so fed up with that, after writing a long old thing to you, I just got up and took a break. I just hate it, when this happens! It is not my day for typing! Anyway, I'm glad JWD answered you on shamans (past and present). I would add one thing; they, also, use extremely potent herbals to achieve altered states of consciousness in order to enter the spirit realm, besides medicinally. Not that herbals/plants in themselves are evil. No. (Asprin comes from Willow Bark, as well as other meds from plants). I am a natural healer, herbalist, myself, but in a medicinal, scientific way, not in any ookie way. And I do not use good nutrition in order to save myself or to make myself holier (Ellen/SDA), which is a pagan practice to begin with, going back for eons...believing what we put into our bodies makes us pure and holy. Jesus directly, clearly refuted that pagan concept. My ex's girlfreind is what one would call a shaman wanna be, mostly. Mostly dabbling, including in some Wiccan Craft. Sometimes, the wanna be's are more dangerous than the true initiates/adepts because they don't realize what they are dealing with in the spirit realm nor what the spirit's true characters and actions are and can be. She placed an attachment 'spell' with herbs to my husband, when there was some actual hope of reconciliation between us. (Then, suddenly, shockingly that was gone, almost, literally overnight). In most cases, these things are folly and silliness. In some cases, the spirts work their evil, if the person allows it; my ex did. He had already opened a 'portal', so to speak. Very dangerous ground and he knew better. As the Word says, Satan (his minions) have ploys, when there is unforgiveness, resentments, things like that. Long story, but I saw for myself how a person can give over a tragic 'foothold'. Even more sadly, my teen daughter found the pouch of spells and knew what it meant. (I have long warned my kids against the occult and things they have seen at schools and from other kids using spirit/occult methods, chants, etc.. I have mostly homeschooled them, though) No, he was never an SDA. I was long gone from them by the time we met (but still had some left-over questions). We met at a non-denominational church. That was, mostly, his background...non-denom... after a non-believing mother raising him and an occult teenhood, until a Lutheran church saved him. But I do not think he ever truly got it about the cross and grace. He was very justice, punishment oriented and unforgivng to many. (Grace is not justice.) Grace was never a part of his paradigm and I finally figured out a lot of things. I still pray for him, as I did when I was married to him. It would be lovely if the kid's dad came back to Jesus in a deep way. But I am rambling here. Sorry. Anyway, I am just delighted to meet all of you, one by one! Thank you, Gilbert for your kind words. I ponder your deep posts very much and appreciate your insights all the time, as well as everyone else's. Graces to all from our Lord~ Cathy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3429 Registered: 12-2003 |
Cathy2, you've certainly experienced things many of us only vaguely hear about. You're absolutely right, however, about people essentially being responsible for the fact that spells have power over them. Satan cannot wreak his spiritual havoc in people who have invited the Holy Spirit to be in them. What a devastating and even dangerous ordeal you and your kids have been through! I'll be praying for you all. Colleen | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dear, Dear Colleen, I have appreciated you so much, I don't have the words. Christ has blessed you with a deep understanding of scripture, clarity of thought and written expression, wisdom and a compassion, which I can feel through cyberspace (through the Holy Spirit. Not just for myself in your loving words, but for others in posts I have read in the past. ~Thank you~ You know, on a certain level, I knew the situation about my ex (and it still is current) was/is dangerous, but I did not feel an extreme fear, besides a seriously deep concern for my children being influenced (and, now, I have forbidden them to visit them in CA, since I learned of the extent of all of it. He must visit them here. I was scared about his reaction, but, so far, no reaction). The verse, which says, that by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are delivered from sin, darkness and the Devil, I take as seriouly true and powerful as my desk here is real. We are in Christ and I have told and reassured my kids of this. We are his and evil cannot come near us, let alone worse. Without going into detail, in my childhood, I was spiritually abused with the occult. Not in practice, but with unecessary knowledge and teachings, all in the name of warning against it. It only made me terrified because I had not any real assurance of Christ to counter it. (But I did know enough to call on his name after reading a book, once, very young) After graduation, I drifted with some 'home church' Christans, then some New Agers (before the term 'New Age' was even in society), some other Asian mystical beliefs, a borderline run into Wicca, always on the edge, but never fully emmersed; several Cult experiences traumatized me, but I survived and had my prayed for babies. Years later, I learned more in scripture, of Jesus, the cross, etc., and stopped being afraid of spirits. (another long story ) In 2000, I was triggered back into a sudden Cult dissociation (not mentally, just floaty..ASC's) and didn't know why or even what was happening to myself. I began to study... All of that incorporated into my studies of comparative religions (ancient to current for 12 years) and pieces began to fall into place even more so about my 'journey' and God. To say the least, if God had not given me his courage, I would have been scared out of my wits by what I learned and might not have withstood the current, unthinkable events, now. I think he prepared me fro the recognization and the battle. Also, the business I seek and study to be in, someday, Christian Natural Health Consulting (In conjunction with conventional medicine, too), is going to attract The occult people like bees to honey (they already do to me on the Net, since 1998 and I do not know why, but they always leave, when I mildly claim Jesus, not their beliefs, although I do not reject them) because these things are already in their territory, you might say. And, I think, God might have prepared me, from my background, to bear a witness because I know their language, so to speak. And I accept them as all types of people, in bondage, needing Christ, not stupid freaks. But for the grace of God, there go I... Someday, when my clients enter my home, they will find verses on the walls and peaceful, healing Christan music to gentle them, and prayer, if they will allow it. (And I can always pray silently!) I know that I am not afraid of the spirits they will have with them; I have faced down worse in Jesus' power. (and it does not need any hysterics) I don't know any of this for sure about the future, but it keeps coming to my heart and mind. We'll see. I ask for God's will and only for Chrsit to be exalted and for people to be healed and/or sustained, on all levels, by him, in his will for them. I do thank you for your prayers on this subject, for I know how very, very necessary and powerful prayer is for this spiritual issue. It is late and I'm not even sure I have been coherent in this post, but I wanted to acknowledge you and your post before I forgot my thoughts tomorrow. I praise God for his serenity in Jesus! Cathy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 756 Registered: 1-2003 |
Cathy. You made an excellent point in your post...food equalling spirituality is very eastern religion in thought. Bhuddists for example, think this way. Some SDA have bought into a doctrine of demons! I think you are smart to have him visit you instead of sending your kids into their house. I am sure there is a very strong demonic presence there. I have been in houses before that made me uncomfortable and I wouldn't want to spend the night there...that's for sure! God bless you Cathy. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 406 Registered: 1-2003 |
Cathy, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say, "Some SDA have bought into a doctrine of demons!" ?? richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2005  |
It's about the fact that eating certain foods, vegetarianism with other words, makes you more spiritual, because it open your brain to the influence of the Holy Spirit. You are in this way better prepared to be lead by the Holy Spirit. It's like changing your state of consciousness, making you more sensible to spiritual influences, and these are surely doctrine of demons, because occult practices try to implement the same idea: you become more and more in harmony with the spiritual forces of universe, you are opening to the invisible influences and permit them to transform you. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3434 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey, Jackob--great to "see" you! You're right about the doctrines of demons explanation. Colossians 2:20-23 describes the worldly rules of "do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!" These have no power to restrain sensual indulgence (v. 23). 1 Timothy 4:3 also describes ordering people to abstain from certain foods as a thing "taught by demons". People who perpetuate this and other carnal rules such as not marrying are following deceiving spirits (v. 1). The whole issue of "health reform" and, more currently, "Lifestyle" being part of fitting one to be the temple of the Holy Spirit is a doctrine of demons. The Bible never says to practice dietary rules or other lifestyle "shoulds" in order to be a fit habitation for the Holy Spirit or in order to be able to discern Him. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2331 Registered: 3-2004 |
Cathy2, Who is F.L.Y.Lady? I have never heard of her. I call myself flyinglady because I am definitely a lady and I have 60+ hours of flying time as a student pilot. Prayers are always welcome. You can pray for my son in the USAF whose name is still on the SDA books, but he does not believe SDA doctrine any more. He is looking for a church in LittleRock, Arkansas that has a good program for his son of 2 years and a good program for him and his wife. You can also remember all my sister and brothers. There are 7 of them, but God knows them. This forum has been so good for me. I have learned so much about Jesus and what He has done for us sinners. I thank you God for Jesus. You are awesome as always. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 956 Registered: 7-2004 |
Having been engaged in discussions regarding redemption, justification, and sanctification for some time now I have come to this conclusion. Jesus could make perfect, both inside and outside, from the moment of our rebirth. I think the reason he chooses not to is to keep us humble. We are still human, and if we were to be suddenly sinless we might get boastful and self-agrandizing about it. Therefore, to keep us ever mindful of the source of every good thing, we must deal with our failings day to day until time is no more. However, perpetual Sabbathing is the gift that we get that gives us the assurance that we are in the right place with the God of all Eternity and Life. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3437 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great point, Belva. It's good to have you back! How are you doing? Colleen | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2006 |
Richard, I didn't actually state "Some SDA have bought into a doctrine of demons!", Pheeki did, but I agree with everything written here, and in the past, about this concept. I agree because of my experiences in my 20's in pagan/Asian philosophies (later rejected) and, later, research. You, probably, already know this, but 'doctrine' just means 'teaching'. Some of the teachings from Ellen White, which she claimed were direct form God, are the same teachings, which go back to ancient pagan religions, to date. Hinduism, on the what-we-put-into-our-bodies-makes-us-holy is the most prominent one some Americans might be familiar with. In Ellen's time, there were various groups in England and America, who were interested in Asian philosophies and Spritualiam.(Theosophy is the most famous, which was the 'Mother' of modern New Age. Madam Blavatsky channeled) They incorporated into their thinking and writings (not necessarily their lifestyles)the concept of externals making humans holier. Mary Eddy Baker is the American, in Ellen's time, who created, yet, another unique American religion, basing nutrition as a foundational doctrine. I won't go into the correlations between her and Ellen; others have done it better than I can. Having said all that, I do not believe that a person being under a teaching, such as some doctrines in Adventism, makes a person demonic. No. I take individuals one at a time, as I believe our Lord does. Have I seen persons behave in evil ways, giving eveil an opening? Yes. But not just some SDA's. Human nature and evil spreads all across the globe. And I do not blame 'the Devil', when basic human nature does much ugliness in life. We are saved for a reason from ourselves! My focus is that Adventism seperates people from the true Christ, cross and grace. That is the tragedy to me, from the teachings. They know not the Gospel, as a people, as a rule, or they try, so desperatley, sadly, to have it both ways. That is impossible, to blend the Gospel with anything. It is either, or. People still end up uncertain, pressured and dysfunctional, unable to be effective for Christ as they want to be. I see it, watch it in my family. All I can say in the end is, there truly is nothing new under the sun, except our simple, unique Savior on the cross, risen, givng us a vast grace we cannot even comprehend, except by his Word. Richard, I tend to get intellectual, when writng on the Net, but, trust me, I've been where you are in heart (I've read your posts in the past). Thank you for asking your question. Your sister in Christ, Cathy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Diana, I have prayed for your son, his family and your sibs. I will do so each time God brings them to my mind. What a terrific skill, piloting! I have never been in small plane and I am sure it must be exhilerating! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Belva, I have gained much enrichment from your posts~ Bless you! I like how you put 'perpetual sabbathing'. Kind of like just Being. Well, being in Christ, hid in him, isn't it, constantly. We can just be, not keep checking on ourselves ("Am I doing it right?"). He has it all covered. Like in Psalms, our secret pavillion. Pavillions were utterly beautiful structures, architecually, with music, silks, marbles, arts, in the Middle East and Asia. Some were built just for the women. At times, just a single, honored, beloved woman (Think the Bride, Body of Christ or just yourself). It's a word-picture in Psalms for a very luxurious Haven. Have a great weekend everyone! Cathy choosier1@msn.com | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 809 Registered: 7-2000 |
Cathy, Yes...the true gospel of Jesus Christ is an "either/or" way of believing and living! To try and "blend the Gospel with anything" results in a denial of the supremacy of Jesus...and HIS finished work for us. grace always, cindy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 958 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Colleen, I've been here since last Friday when I got home, just haven't had a lot of energy to formulate opinions or type them in. It's been very nice just letting all of your posts wash over me and to experience the fact that as different as we all are, we are one in Christ Jesus. I saw my X-rays a couple of days ago, and the grafts are tiny, in places only wafer thin, but completely adequate to replace the cartilege that was worn away. It looks like a whole, healthy ankle, and you have to look very close to see the seam lines. I have these really interesting images in my head of God finding my trashed parts, and sending the working stuff I now have back to its original owner. Thanks to modern medicine, He's going to be doing a lot of that! God bless you, everyone. Take good care of you teeth and your feet! You'll appreciate having both as you get older! Love you guys! Belva |
