| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 445 Registered: 7-2004  |
I am a very lyric-oriented person when it comes to songs. And every once in a while I come across a common song that bothers me. Like today. One of the songs that we sang was "When its all been said and done".
I can't help but think that while there is just one thing that matters, that thing is NOT what I do or have done. It isn't whether I have done my best (which would never be good enough) but rather that I trust in Him Who is the best and has done it all for me. And I probably think too much when reading the lyrics, but isn't the idea of turning sinners into saints just a little different than counting a sinner as righteous? Isn't this the difference between imputed and imparted righteousness, a core difference between reformation and Catholic theology? Am I over-reacting? Thinking too much about the lyrics? Or is this a subtle heresy masked as a praise song? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 972 Registered: 7-2004 |
Those lyrics make me uneasy, too. At one time I would have totally agreed with what they are saying, but no longer. When it is all over, said and done, the only thing I want left on my record is that I surrendered to Jesus, my King, and He gave me His righteousness. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2006 |
Ewwww! Throw 'em out! Right out of your head. The only 'thing', which stands the test of time (Eternity) is Christ. We stand by-in him alone. I am not against it, but this is one problem with 'celebration' music. At times, it does have lyrics, which are all over the place, because the artists are all over the place, theologicaly, from all 'walks'. The church music directors might not catch things all the time. But the Holy Spirit will for others like you.  Great catch, instead of just mindlessly singing it like a platitude and wiring the message into your brain! (the way I sang hymns as a child.) Cathy | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 446 Registered: 7-2004 |
Glad to hear I'm not the only one with that reaction. I had emailed the pastor about it, in the kindest way that I could. I have asked him whether I am over-reacting. I'll be interested in his response. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2005 |
Amazing coincidence! I was driving home from a patient's house less than an hour ago and was listening to this song for the first time in a few months. And for the first time, really, the lyrics gave me pause, as well. In the version I was listening to, from Robin Mark's "Revival in Belfast" CD, the words aren't "Turning sinners into saints" but instead "Making sinners into saints". Seems worse, yet. But then I thought maybe it could be interpreted as speaking of sanctification rather than justification, but the parts talking about the things "I" do or doing "my best" makes me uneasy. Regardless, it's a beautiful rendition (not that that makes it right). Heretic | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3485 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree with all of you re: the phrases in question. At the same time, if I look at this from the standpoint of already being saved, it makes sense. The rewards in 1 Cor. 3 are for works done "in the body". The person is saved, but the "works" will either be rewarded for being done in obedience to the Spirit or burned up because they were works of the flesh. And I can also see the "sinners into saints" line as the work of the Spirit in us. Here's what I find interesting about this song. If I think about this song in relationship to myself, I get the same queasy feeling about it you all described. Four and a half years ago, however, when my dad died, this song stuck in my head, and we actually used it in a slide show at his funeral. He was a truly sincere man, a deeply loyal SDA who, in the mid-1980s, read "Omega" by Schafer and finally realized Ellen was a false prophet (even though the book was an SDA apologetic). He began studying the Bible with my mom, and two years before he died at the age of 79, he and my mom joined our church. He was a man of integrity always, and his willingness to walk away from Adventism for the sake of the gospel at the age of 77 was, to me, nothing short of remarkable. He did this in spite of great distress among his siblingsóone of whom is an Adventist pastoróand extended family. Somehow, when I heard Robin Mark sing those words: Did I do my best to live for truth? Did I live my life for you? When it's all been said and done All my treasures will mean nothing Only what I have done For love's rewards Will stand the test of time and applied them to my dad, they described his integrity, his risking, his willingness to follow Jesus, and his quiet but determined desire all his life to know truth. After my dad's death, that song was descriptive, not prescriptive. So, yesóI relate to your reactions to the song, yet from a posthumous perspective, they really do describe a life of integrity. Interesting question, Rick! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1387 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen, Wasn't "Omega" written by Lewis Walton--a hired lawyer hack to do a hatchet job on Desmond Ford? Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3493 Registered: 12-2003 |
Stan--you may well be right. Somewhere I got the idea Schafer had written it, but I believe you are right. Thanks for the correction! Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, The work in I Cor 3 is specifically about the work of building and growing the church, if verses 12-14 are read within the context of the rest of the chapter. The contrast of works is between those who are building the church on the foundation of Jesus and those who are building on another foundation. If there is just one thing that matters in this chapter it is the foundation on which the house is built, Jesus--not the works of the builders. The passage in I Cor 3, read in context, does not support the ideas promoted in this song. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 449 Registered: 7-2004 |
I mentioned that I had emailed the pastor. I was hesitant, not because I expected a bashing like we have had with some previous pastors, but rather because I didn't want to be a troublemaker. Anyhow, his response today made my face light up. I feel not only affirmed about my comment to him, but also about the church situation we are in. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2362 Registered: 3-2004  |
Ric, I am so glad for you that the pastor answered the way he did. As he said, God must be working. How awesome God is. Diana |
