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Prinsen
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Post Number: 16
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on the SDA view of disappointment with God. I have earlier experienced and a friend of mine is currently experiencing disappointment with God. Both of us knew/know that God is good, just, loving and so on, but still we both were/are disappointed with God. It seems that there is a difference though between evangelicals and Adventists in how they respond when you tell someone that you are disappointed with God. While it seems ok for an evangelical to be disappointed with God and still fully love him and believe in him, it is not ok with an Adventist. The Adventist response insinuate that there is a problem with ones view of God and they try to make you understand who and how God is. You will also be met by fear that youíre losing faith (which is not the question at all but they simply donít understand that).

My question is: Is there a difference between evangelicals and Adventists? And if so: what is the cause of the SDA view? Is it theological reasons/grounds?

Any thoughts on this?

/M


(The SDA church in this case is a mix of evangelical and historical Adventists and the response is the same from both groups)

PS: I hope you understand my question. It is not always easy for me to find the right words and make me understood in English since it is not my mother toungeÖ
Chris
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prinsen, I don't have an answer to your question I guess, but I do have an honest question. Please, please don't take this as a slightly veiled admonishment or anything of the sort. I really truly have a question about this and am asking because I've very interested in the answer. So please hear me in that frame of reference.

I once saw a book by Phillip Yancey titled, "Disappointment with God" sitting on a shelf in a bookstore. I can remember repeating the title over and over to myself as I considered it. It was a brand new thought to me. Since that time I have been perplexed by the idea of being disappointed with God. My sense is that disappointment with God is relatively common.

I've been disapointed with myself. I've been disappointed with loved ones. I've been disappointed with life events. I've been disappointed with my job. I've been disappointed with Adventism. I've been disapointed by a lot of things, but it's never really occured to me to be disappointed with God. I'm not quite sure what it means to be disappointed with God.

So my question is, what exactly do you mean when you say you are disapointed with God?

Again, please please understand that I'm not in any way questioning your feelings, your spirituality, or your relationship with God. Nor am I saying it's not okay to feel what you're feeling. This is in no way a rebuke. It's an honest question that I have a real interest in. Perhaps the fact that I have never experienced such disappointment suggest that I don't have the kind of deep personal relationship with God that would cause me to experience those emotions. I am truly interested in your response. What does it mean to be disapointed with God?

I'm sorry that I couldn't find a better way to ask my question and I hope that it's not counterproductive to ask it here, but I am truly interested.

Chris
Colleentinker
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prinsen, I would be very interested to hear your answer to Chris's question also. Can you give an example of the disappointment to which you refer?

I'm wonderfing if you are referring to feeling disillusioned or angry, as if God "let you down" by not protecting your or by not keeping something terrible from happening?

Or do you mean feeling as if He is not as powerful or ever-present as you thought He should be? Or are you referring to having done everything you know to serve and follow Him, but finding that your heart is still not at peace?

Or do you mean something altogether different? Perhaps an example of someone's disappointment with God would help.

Can you tell us a bit more?

Colleen
Dd
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prinsen,

I am wondering if you are referring to the same "disappointment" I have experienced with God. I may be way off in thinking you are asking the same questions that I have asked. Let me know.

As an Adventist, I was always told that my goal as a Christian was to be like Christ. About 10 years ago I became aware that after 30 years of trying to be like Jesus, it just wasn't going to happen. I began to see all that I had missed out on as a SDA because of trying to live by rules.

It wasn't until after I "sowed wild oats" at 35 (wild parties, drinking to drunkness, running with a self-centered crowd) and lived with some of the consequences I deserved, that I began to realize I was mixing God with the SDA church.

That is when I began to find the REAL God of the Bible and God lead me to a Bible study and a Christian school for my children. Slowly my anger/disappointment with God began to change to an understanding of His love, acceptance and mercy.

He is NOT my example. He is my Savior.

I believe SDAs are "upset" at hearing about disappointment because it does mean to them that you are leaving "truth". A dear friend once explained the difference between the evangelical Trinity (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit) as compared the SDA trinity.

God = The Church
Jesus = The Sabbath
Holy Spirit = Ellen White

As I said, I may not understand your question...but now you have my two cents. I hope this may help answer at least part of your question.

Hanging on to Jesus,
Denise
Jan
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Disappointment with God is an amazing book by Philip Yancey that I would recommend to anyone--believers or seekers. It's open & honest, without attempting to tie up all the loose ends.

Through OT & NT Bible study, Yancey searches for God's hidden nature and explores questions that most people are afraid to ask out loud, like: Why does God seem so distant? If God desires our love why does He sometimes put obstacles in the way?

Personally, I have found that the more I trust Him, the less disappointed I am in circumstances I don't understand. He sees the big picture!
Snowboardingmom
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Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For one period of my life, I was very disappointed with God. In fact, I actually read Philip Yancey's books, "Disappointment with God", and "Reaching for the Invisible God" to help me through it.

For me, my 'disappointment' was that I had felt God had let me down. Without going into it too much, my husband had an unfair situation happen to him while attending dental school that ended up setting him back one year. Very long story short, my husband fell into depression, we stressed for the remainder of his schooling that it would happen again or he would be removed from the program completely, and we were now another years worth of tuition more in debt (an extra $45,000). It was so devastating personally, and monetarily. I could not see how any good could come out of it.

Initially, I was disappointed in God. It was like I was surprised that this could happen to us by a 'Christian' institution, and to Christian people. I remember distinctly thinking, "How could this happen when God promises that all things work together for good...?" I couldn't possibly see the good that could come out of this, and as a result my disappointment turned to anger, which turned to bitterness. I was SO MAD at God. It was during this same time that I had also been starting to read all the Ellen White stuff, and getting really confused on what I was reading. I felt I was praying for answers, but wasn't getting anything. So, I felt I was being disappointed all over the place, in every aspect of my life. It was the worse feeling, because God wasn't real to me anymore like I thought He had been before. I, very selfishly, had always thought that He needed to be there for ME, answering my prayers, helping me through situations...

I have shared this with very few people, but it didn't take long before I rationalized God away and lived as an agnostic for about 18 months. To me, I felt there was no way I could know whether God really existed, nor did I really care because it didn't seem to do a lot of good anyway. Then in Fall 2001, God presented Himself to me in such a way that there was no doubt in my mind He was very real, and that it wasn't about me, but about Him.

It was then that I realized how insecure I was in His promises, and how little faith and trust I had in Him. He wasn't the problem (which is what my 'disappointment' really was about), but the problem was with me.

There's so much more details that I could say, but bottom line is that I thank God that we aren't in charge of the way things should be. Regarding my questions with the Church, I realized that I had been struggling with trying to figure out the whole EGW thing, or other doctrinal things, and I didn't even have the basics down -- true belief in a God! When a devastating situation came up, I dropped what should have been so fundamental to me. I went 18 months not even caring whether God existed. Looking back, I realize that God had to get me to the basics (God is God), and work me through that before I could even tackle the other stuff that would come years later.

And the only way I could get to the basics from my previous existing self-righteous condition, was for me to become totally broken and in need of Him. The incidence it happened through happened to be one where the situation was totally out of my control. I think it had to be that way.

I understand what it feels like to be disappointed with God, only because I've experienced it and felt it. But after my "refining fire", I don't think that I could be disappointed with God again. My understanding of God's sovereignty has changed, and as a result, my faith and trust in His plan is more sure. As hopeless, and painful the whole experience seemed to be, I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I'm far from "arriving"; I still struggle with letting go and trusting Him fully on a daily basis. But the journey has been amazing in the way God reveals Himself in in His time.
Prinsen
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 4:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, Colleen and others,

thanks for your toughts and questions.

What I mean by disappointment with God is being discontented with life, situation at work, loved ones and so on, praying and praying for a solution to stop hurting and never seem to get an answer. Kind of (temporarily) giving up on that God will answer but still believing in him, loving and trusting him. Maybee it is about not understanding the situation from Gods view and being impatient with that God waits to answer your prayer. Personally I think it is ok to show God our inmost thoughts even if it is disappointment or frustration with him. He knows everything that is in our hearts because he has experienced disappointment and frustration with us humans but still it doesn't keep him from loving us.

The way that me and my friend have experienced SDA's treatment is that when you need care and sympathy you are met either by silence or you are being tought about the characteristics of God (things you alredy know).

I am today strengthened by what I went thru when being disappionted with God because now I see the whole picture. My friend knows that what she is going thru right now will strengthen her in the future but that doesn't help her now. What helps her is having friends supporting her (which I try my best at) but when she is met by SDA friends who is questioning her faith is devastating and adding more to an alredy deep pain.

/M

PS: My friend and I are both evangelical Christians and we know there is no way to earn anything from God it is all gifts of grace.
Chris
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Snowboardingmom and Prinsen. Your answers were very helpful to me.

Snowboardingmom, I really appreciated your testimony. It is very powerful. I love the way you presented what you and your husband went through as a "refining fire" that ultimately strengthened your faith and trust.

Prinsen, you said, "Personally I think it is ok to show God our inmost thoughts even if it is disappointment or frustration with him."

I agree. All one has to do is read through the Psalms to see that many of them are raw human emotion being spilled out upon the page. Some are even shocking! In many of them you see the Psalmist struggling with his creator and desperately trying to understand why things are as they are.

For whatever reason, it seems that God allows us, like Jacob, to struggle with Him at certain points in our lives. As you wisely noted such struggles often result in surrender which then results in being strengthened and being better able to see the whole picture.

Thank you to both of you for your honest testimonies and your valuable insights.

Chris
Pheeki
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prinson...I never felt I could open up to the church people as an SDA. We had to appear perfect...there is an under current of fear in that church that someone will find out you are a sinner...so everyone stays closed off to each other. My evangelical church is soooooooo different. It's full of sinners, it's like a hospital for the Spirit.

If you are looking for unconditional love and acceptance, help, sympathy, etc. from most SDA's...you won't get it. SDAism is about introspection, constantly examining internally for perfection of character, which in my personal experience caused deep depression. I needed to get my eyes off myself and onto Jesus and reaching others. It isn't about perfecting ourselves...Ellen was wrong! The more self you bring into you life, the less you have to give others...there isn't room!

I am glad you are an evangelical...you are very fortunate. Are these SDA's close friends or were you once SDA?
Melissa
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand your question, Chris, but I don't know any other term than "disappointed". Maybe it's what people tell us when they're teaching us about life in Christ or maybe it's the blessings for the blessed and cursings for the cursed mentality that seems to creep in no matter your background....But however it was fostered in my thinking, I have experienced disappointment with my expectations of the Christian life....is that fancy talk to avoid saying disappointed with God? Maybe. Afterall, I followed the "rules". I didn't smoke or drink, I didn't do drugs. I went to church regularly, I prayed and read my Bible and was doing the best I knew to follow what I thought God expected me to do ... and my "blessing" from God, my heritage from the Lord, my child, was broken. Though I recognize on one level that none of those "things" make me a better person or even holier than others, those who didn't do what I'd done have gotten healthy children. They lived for themselves and slept in on Sunday mornings. Maybe overall, I am just disappointed with what I hoped life would be if I did what God wanted. And in all the talk of God's sovereignty, I am forced to accept that God "allowed", wanted, willed my child to be broken. He's sovereign, he could have made her as healthy as my boys, but he didn't. He didn't protect her, he didn't protect me. Whatever life is or becomes or could have been will always be scarred by the brokenness in my family. I don't know how to "heal" or get over it, or make it okay that each turn in life for her brings a new and greater challenge than the curve we just left. I still make diligent effort to trust God, but quite frequently, I feel like a doubting Thomas, or asking for God to help my unbelief. I know the rhetoric, but I also know the pain. How do you stop hoping for your child to be healed? How do you say "it's okay" she's broken? Even when I can say the words, it is really hard to consistently feel the feelings. I will never understand "why" this side of life. And as long as Rachel lives, she will be a burden. She is a perpetual 3 year old that requires constant monitoring as she just has no concept of danger. But her body is much bigger and not easy to restrain. There are several general thoughts...I did something to deserve this, it's just a "fluke of nature" and God isn't as in control as I wish, like Job...God has allowed Satan to break my daughter for reasons I will never understand, but unlike Job, God has not yet restored and I really doubt he will and after 16 years, I don't know how to keep that hope alive anyway ... I have resolved the best I can hope for is contentment. That is different than accepting or embracing the situation. On some level, the word "deserved" keeps vigil no matter how much I battle it. Deserved in light of God's holiness doesn't really make sense because so many others in this world "deserve" the same thing. So, there must be some thing else.

No matter how much I try to make of my life and do for my boys to give them a life, I cannot remove or forget or "welcome" the brokenness in my daughter's life. I can only put it out of my mind and not deal with it at all because there is no peace I can comprehend in her behalf.

Am I disappointed with God? On a level. I'm disappointed he has allowed this to happen to my family. From a broken home as a child to a broken child as an adult ... there is just always brokenness. I don't know how else to describe my innermost emotions. It's not anger, but in the range of fallen humans, and as selfish as it sounds...why did this happen to me? What real "hope" is there for me here? My boys will grow up and move on with their own lives, and have opportunities to do things with their kids I couldn't do with them, but I will always be limited by my daughter as long as one of us is living because I can't abandon her.

On a purely intellectual level, I understand what is said about God and trusting him and his love, etc. And with everything I can muster I want that ... but I hope beyond hope that it is something that doesn't rely on me to accomplish because too many times I fear what God will allow next in my life.

I wouldn't say I was ever "taught" disappointment with God ... I just found life is disappointing ... and to the extent God is in control and the author and finisher of my faith, I sure hope there is something positive to what I can't see. I can mask well, and I can sometimes even "feel" the right feelings ... but there's always the undercurrent that surfaces when I think about it, and sometimes even when I don't. I don't base my faith on my feelings, but neither can I say my feelings aren't real or legitimate given the circumstances. It is a mess on the floor that will never get picked up and neatly put away. So, I just leave the door closed as much as possible.

Just like God "allows" many children to die of diseases, I have accepted the reality that God will not heal my child. I can't really say that gives me any positive feelings. The best day is neutral. The worst are really negative. And to the extent I have trusted God with my life, this is what he's given me .... I have no platitude to make everyone around me feel better about those circumstances. It just is what it is.

So I get up each day and put on a happy face so my boys will not see the pain and will not grow up in a sad, negative home. And when Rachel's not home, there is a degree of guilt that I'm glad she's somewhere else so I can do for my boys. It's much easier to just pretend and put it out of my mind as best I can ... elsewise people will just avoid me like they avoid her. But I am never completely free of those feelings. And it does seem a little arrogant to be disappointed. But those are my raw, unmasked feelings just the same. Because the only one I know who could have prevented this situation, didn't. It probably sounds like self pity. And sometimes it is. Other times, it's just plain grief lashing out. Mostly I hide those emotions, and make the most of what I do have. But I try my very hardest to be completely honest with God in hopes he will help me somehow. Without that hope, one can become quite paralyzed.
Belvalew
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, you have poured out your heart and bared your soul for us. I feel really honored that you feel it is safe to do that here. I will not offer platitudes and quick word fixes, because there are none for your situation. I praise God that you remain faithful and on-course, for your daughter as well as your boys. I can and will pray that the Lord will add for you an extra helping of Grace as you walk the road that is yours alone to tread.

Blessings,
Belva
Prinsen
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and views of this. It seems to me that at least from a historic Adventist view there is a difference to evangelicals in this matter.
I used to be SDA and my friend is is going to the SDA church but is not a member and in theology she is more evangelical than adventist. Those friends who don't seem to understand are SDA's most of them grew up in SDA church.

Melissa,
thanks for sharing your life and feelings with us. Your "story" puts me and my life in new perspective.


/M
Windmotion
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My husband had a very disappointing thing happen to him recently, a reversal of something that seemed to be from God. Coincidentally (or not) he was reading a book by Max Lucado which asked (paraphrase) "If God gave you nothing else besides salvation, would that be enough?"
Max doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for additional things, but we shouldn't necessarily EXPECT any more. It just helped him to look at the situation from a different angle.
Helpfully,
Hannah
Colleentinker
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa and Grace, thank you both for your stories.

Melissa, God wants to glorify Himself through this great grief in your life. He is equipping you to honor Him and proclaim His faithfulness uniquely.

I will pray Ephesians 3:16-19 for you, MJelissa, and pray that you will begin to glimpse His eternal faithfulness and glory that is the backdrop of your poignant tragedy.

Colleen
Dennis
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

Thanks for sharing your anguish and concerns with us. I am teary-eyed as I type this, and I know God sees your painful heartbreak day by day as you lovingly care for your daughter. Someday soon, God will make up to you for all your "disappointments." Life in this world is not always fair. Indeed, life in this world can be downright agonizing, unfair, and scary.

It seems that you are doing a great job in not allowing difficult circumstances to master your life. Remember, we are all fighting battles of various complexity. Afflictions are but the shadow of God's wings.

Dennis Fischer
Lisa_boyldavis
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

I have no clue what holds you together. My job interacts with families of broken people and kids. I ware myself out for them and then send them home or to the hospital or away somewhere, but with that patient goes the families that are wearing themselves out for these children, these family members. They can't do their 8 and clock out. That's you friend. I didn't know what your life was until I read about your daughter and your life. I tend to share the truth about myself and then run for awhile because the pain of a difficult reply, or no reply at all hurts too much. I thank you for being real, for modeling Jesus honesty and refusing to play the "I'm fine" game.


FAF:

About disappointment, here's my story. After God had been tugging on me and my husbands heart to leave Adventism, after I went up to an alter call at a Just Give Me Jesus Conference, and I traded the Sabbath for Jesus, My Lord Jesus took away an addiction I'd had for my entire life. He completely healed me of an eating disorder. The healing lasted 5 months. Just before the 5 months was up, during testimony time at church I even praised God for healing me of an addiction when I said Yes to him. I was terrified to speak of it in church. One other time I'd joined OA and God had healed me of overeating and it had lasted 2 months or so and I'd gotten up in church and thanked God for the healing publicly only for the addiction to return, so I was very frightened to give God the glory as I was afraid my eating disorder would come back. Sure enough, not long after I gave God the glory for healing me of this disorder, the 5 months of miracle was GONE. Disappointment with God, what's a good way to describe it, but also CONFUSED. Now a year or so later, I'm not as thin maybe as I was, but I've figured out what triggers the binges and what keeps me on track, and I make choices that keep me balanced and out of binging. So I guess God gave me a miracle to let me know he was there, but then let me grow some wings to learn some self control on the eating issues.

I know my issues are NOTHING like raising a sickly child. I don't know how God chooses certain people for certain pain, and different lives for others. I just know He's the ONLY ONE who's given me what hope and peace I've experienced, and I trust He's Good and so I trust Him.

Sometimes I just think of what my life could have been likeÖ If Iíd married that good for nothing boyfriend, or followed through with my thoughts of wanting to do myself in as a young teen, or what if the violation by my youth pastor had continuedÖ. Why do I trust God at all. I guess I think of what could have been, and realize how GREAT my life is compared to what it could have been.

I guess now that the Gospel has become my life, Iím just SO GLAD Iím not a disappointment to God, that He only sees Jesus.

Lisa
Patriar
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Melissa:

I just spent the last 40 minutes typing two lengthy responses--and then deleted them. No words are adequate for your pain...I know. Suffice it to say 'I care' and can relate to much of what you said due to my brother's traumatic brain injury 9 years ago. Several weeks ago, he was hitting me with all of his strength because I told him he couldn't have a cookie. In those moments of physical pain, I think 'this is NOTHING compared to the hurt in my heart.'

I long for heaven. I long for the day when ALL of our bodies will be glorified and we will be in the Presence of our God.

Hopeful,

Patria

p.s. If you EVER want to write me, I am at patriar@yahoo.com My brother lives with my parents. He has never been out of the care of one of us for more than a few hours; and that's only rarely. I do understand much of the day-in and day-out care. G-tubes, ADL's, trachs and on and on...
Javagirl
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Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa, Melissa, Dd, Grace, Prinsen, and whoever else i missed. I appreciate your willingness to speak openly.
It helps me put things in perspective. It hurts to hear what you have gone through, yet i know from experience that speaking truthfully and honestly heals a piece of us each time.

So true, how rare that it is in legalistic denominations. How freeing living as one who is fully loved by their savior.

Lisa, I realized that I cant disappoint God, as he knew before the world was created all the things I would do all the days of my life. He chose to love me then. with full knowledge! Amazing.

We are the cake mixture in the mixing bowl right now--He sees the finished product--the cake baked with frosting and candles. I picture him like a child excited about the finshed cake, and even enjoying the whole experience even as the mess seems to multiply at times in the process.

Not meaning to trivalize anyones experience. Just wanted to stress how much He loves all of us, on all stages of our journey.

hugs

JavaGirl
Riverfonz
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Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone above for sharing your stories.

Here is a poem that touched me tonight
www.theologica.blogspot.com/2006/03/thorn.html

This is entitled "The Thorn"

Stan
Lisa_boyldavis
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Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An amazing Poem. An amazing way to look at life. Thank you for that.
Flyinglady
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Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can really identify with disappointment Lisa. I, also have had a life long eating disorder. I joined OA. but for some reason or another I never had freedom from the disorder for long periods of time. I would have a month here and there. When I was baptized a Christian 2 years ago, the disorder left me and I gave God thanks. I knew I was not responsible for that. Then It came back.
It leaves for a while and I thank God, then it returns. What I have seen is that I have to turn it over to God at every meal and in between meals when the urge to eat hits me. I will admit, I have been disappointed, especially when I have read where God relieved compulsions for SDAs who have become Christians. I want the same for me.
But my issues are nothing compared to raising a sickly child or having illnesses that are life threatening. So I just have to be thankful for what I have and be thankful it is not more.
Melissa, You are in my prayers with your daughter. I cannot find adequate words to say to encourage you, except to hang on to God.
My last job in Virginia was in a state institution that took care of adult age people with physical and mental disabilities. It could have been very sad to see it every day, knowing I could do nothing to help them. I had to turn that over to God on a daily basis, or I would not have made it as long as I did.
Lisa, Melissa, You are in my prayers.
We do have an awesome God, even when we do not understand when He allows things to happen to us.
Stan, Thanks for the poem.
Diana
Lisa_boyldavis
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Username: Lisa_boyldavis

Post Number: 179
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Diane,

Thank you for sharing what's gone on with your eating disorder. That helps me to know someoneís journey was similar to mine... miracles that were given and then seemingly taken away. The way I'm looking at it, if my heart is more loving, more kind, less judgmental by not having the perfect body, then I surrender that to God and give Him thanks for my life.

Melissa,

I wish you were my neighbor and I could just pick up your daughter and care for her off and on to give you a break. About the guilt you feel being so relieved while she's gone, ALL PARENTS HAVE GREAT AMOUNTS OF RELEIFE WHEN SCHOOL STARTS BACK IN SEPTEMBER, ETC... I wonder if you were able to give the guilt to God and just celebrate and enjoy the much needed break and rest, if the burden would be just a bit lighter for you. May I pray that for you, that you are able to give the guilt to God?

Lisa
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 2375
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa and any one else who has problems with food, how about establishing a prayer time when we all pray at the same time for each other. Like we do on the prayer chain for all SDAs.
Anyone else can pray for us also.
Let me know what you think.
Diana
Another_carol
Registered user
Username: Another_carol

Post Number: 276
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise,I am in total agreement and you put it in such simple terms:

"He is NOT my example. He is my Savior".

I have many times pointed this out on the CARM forum.

In Matthew it says:

19:29
"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.

I am not/nor ever have been SDA but from what I can gather from many hours spent looking at the words they say, the fundamental beliefs and hearing it personally from my son-in-law, they have come to believe that the sabbath is the ultimate law which we will need to keep, keeping us from having the mark of the beast, of which I understand from their words is Sunday worshippers.

I then ask according to scripture above; what is His Name. For me His Name is Savior and that is exactley what I think of Him and that is exactley what I have come to believe by studing The Word of God and just a few of those verses would be:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

1 John 4:10 In this is love not that we loved Him but that He loved us and sent His Son as a propitition for ours sins.

John 10:10
"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. (The only way that He can give us life is to take care of the sin that separates us from God. Previous verse shows that He did.)

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

ohn 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.(I have not said it but rather this is what the words of the Bible say. Either SDA must look at them and throw out their belief of; they must do something or they need to circumvent ideas of this does not actually mean that God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world.)

Got a little carried away and I could go father but suffice it to say; Either SDA believe the word of God or they add words to fit their belief. I've seen it happen over and over again.

But prophecy tells us this:

Jeremiah 31:

34.... "For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

Why will He need to remember our sins no more?

Because scripture says:

Romans 6:

23For the wages of sin is death,

Romans 6:18

18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Romans 8:2

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Consequently we can believe in the rest of Romans 6:23:

but the gift if of God is eternal life.

A gift is not anything other than a gift and cannot be bought with a price since the gift was already bought and paid for with The Blood Of Our Savior.

And my bottom line is: "Can we save ourselves". No one ever wants to discuss such.

Let The Glory of the Lord Rise Among us and I pray for our adventis brothers and sisters also, AnotherCarol

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