| Author | Message | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hello folks. I have been following the posts very carefully as per usual. I have a request from a friend that left Adventism in October and is going to register but in the mean while he would like to know if anyone has experienced anything like this since leaving Adventism. Inside of his chest itches and it forms into balls and the balls go into the centre of his heart and it affects his solar plexus and nervous system. He experiences something like pieces of liquid metal in his Spiritual being and he finds it hard to breathe and speak. Six months after being an Adventist he got smashed to pieces Spiritually in the flesh. He recognized that he did not know that it was about the inside and not externals{behaviour}. He realised it was about peace and joy and that he was relying on self. His insides feel DRY he says that he feels like he needs to be WASHED He has had 2 weeks off work and in the past he has had many days off work because of his Spiritual condition. He is in a DESPERATE situation at the moment and would REALLY appreciate some feed back A.S.A.P | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2005  |
I've talk to her, mentioning that I hope that on 29 march, my 31 birthday, I'll be free from all church obligations. And I added that I'll go with her at any SDA church she wanted to go, that we'll leave the current church. This was her wish, and as I pointed to ehr some time ago, I want only to be true to my conviction: "I'll go with you, but only after I'm no longer an adventist." She received the news saying nothing, but, of course, it was not easy for her. I haven't mentioned, but she gave her assent for me to attend a sunday church if I want, as long as I go with her at sda church. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2006 |
Anotherseeker, your friend is experiencing,imho, anxiety/panic attacks, which can be very normal, when leaving something like Adventism. I say this because of my own experiences from exiting groups, dealing with SDA family and the experiences of others, I have known, who left Adventism and who exited cults. Even various degrees of dissociation can occur and cognitive dissonance. It can be very frightening, not knowing what is happening to yourself, and disorienting. Stay with him as his friend, validate his experiences, believe him, listen; this is real, physically and emotionally. Let him tell his story, vent; this all allows the feelings to release, go, and the symptoms to lesson. Then his cognitive processing can return more able to think things through and function, also in activites of daily living, if that applies. A feeling of lostness is common, too. You can help to ground, anchor him, especially, in the Word, the best anchoring of all. Prayer with him and immersing him in scripture, the Gospel verses, is healing and transforming, concerning his spiritual state and feelings. Feelings (emotional and physical) come and go (sometimes, like a roller-coaster), but a mental steadiness and assurance about Christ and truth comes from his Word, through the Holy Spirit. Change our thoughts, then feelings will follow. The Holy Spirit changes our thoughts to the mind of Christ through his scripture. I truly feel deeply for him and your feelings, too, as his friend, desiring to help. If you would like some closer upholding, he or you can email me, for I have a heart for exiting individuals, who find themselves in this situation. Also, in Dennis Fischer's story (another page on this site), I read that he has an SDA exit counseling mission. (Is that still correct, Dennis?) In these situations, all the Christian supports one can receive is very important. He should not be alone. Lisa, you have an apt analogy for the grieving. the grief can come and go like this, when you do not expect it. I feel for you and pray for you. I pray for you and your wife, too, Jackob. Prayers transcend phonelines and are instant, thank God! And thank God for the Internet, too, so we can reach out and minister to each other now, when, before, so many of us would be alone as formers. Those of us, who have walked this path before are willing for others to lean on us as you begin. And, sometimes, we need to lean, too, because Evil tries to steal our joy. Yet, he never succeeds completely. Joy returns, always. There WILL be joy; you will not be crushed. 2 Corinthian 4 With empathy, Cathy choosier1@msn.com | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thankyou so much for your PROMPT reply. I was on the phone with him for most of the evening and you replied before the end of our conversation. THANKYOU JESUS! He has read your response and i encouraged him to email you which i believe he is doing as i type this post. What a healing balm from Gilead! Thankyou Cathy! | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2006 |
I will pray for the right words, spirit, and scripture for him. All I have to offer is prayer, empathy, my own experiences (and other's), some websites, scripture and some experience in leading Christian, healing support groups, and a desire to help suffering people heal in Jesus on every level. I am no 'professional'. I only know the pain. I only know that Christ is the *first source* and cause for the healing; the rest is only tools. I could use your prayers, too, to enwrap, encircle this precious, suffering brother in Christ's healing, protection and comfort; plus the assurance that he is saved and washed, right now. And that balm, like Anotherseeker said, like warm oil, though his spirit, truly feeling Christ, steadying his soul, emotions and physical self; calming his mind in the Word. Could we all encircle him with 'arms of prayer'? (and for Lisa and Jackob, too) Knowing one is prayed for, even by strangers, does something within us, I cannot explain. Cathy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3495 Registered: 12-2003  |
Cathy's advice to recommend to your friend that he stay grounded in the Word of God, Anotherseeker, is the most important thing he can do. To borrow the idea of a counselor I know who specializes in post traumatic stress and eating disorders, Truth is in God's Word, not in your thoughts. You have to make God's Word part of your thoughts, memorizing its words so truth will fill your head and heart instead of your own distortions filling you. If one is not willing to become immersed in God's word, he/she is not ready to 'get well'. (His idea, not mine!) As difficult as I know it is, it is a choice to embrace the word of God at this sort of intimate, daily, and moment-by-moment level. When one has suffered great pain, the damage can nearly eclipse any desire to read much less internalize the Scriptures. Yet the Bible is where we learn the truth about Jesus and find His Spirit strengthening and teaching us. Praying for you and your friend, Anotherseeker. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 617 Registered: 4-2000  |
Cathy, Yes, I am busily involved in mentoring, exit counseling, chaplaincy, etc. Exposing the captors and evangelizing the captives makes every day very special. I am available both online and by phone. For example, a fellow dormitory student, at the SDA college in France, with Samuele Bacchiocchi called me from a remote area several months ago. He is now a former Adventist. I could actually hear his heartcry in his voice. He kept telling me repeatedly how the Adventists had "ruined my life." However, God blessed him with a professional voice that honored the Queen of England when he sang "God save the Queen" in a stadium of nearly 50,000 people. He even played an excerpt of that recording for me while I was on the phone with him. God truly gifted him with a wonderful voice. Jackob, Perhaps we can communicate via Yahoo instant messenging with or without voice. This surely beats the high cost of international long distance phone calls. If so, simply email me at: dennisfischer@neb.rr.com . Dennis Fischer | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dennis, Do you have a website, which you could post here? I would like it for my files, as well. Plus, someone emailed me, tonight, who might need and want it. It is so wonderful what you are doing. I had no idea there was any exit counseling out there for leaving/former SDA's. Others, yes, but not SDA's. I will pray for your ministry. Yours, in Christ, Cathy choosier1@msn.com | ||
| Ratthedd Registered user Username: Ratthedd Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2006 |
Jackob, Now, more than ever, your wife is going to need your support. Be there for her, comfort her, love her, hold her, and show her the level of peace that you have been given by leaving the SDA church. I think you're doing the absolutely best thing in continuing to attend church with her. There's nothing that says we have to refuse going to an SDA church just because we no longer believe in their 'truths'. Perhaps in time she'll agree to attend your new church as well. Bring her into it slowly and encourage her to study alone and with you. Pray together--for each other. I hope you will both continue to grow and receive peace. - Erik. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 429 Registered: 8-2004  |
Jackob, When I left SDAism, I'd been finding it difficult to attend church for several years (it would often take most of the week for me to release the stress that built up Saturday morning). When God released me from SDAism though, I was able to cheerfully and comfortably attend church with my family - because I knew that God was going with me and would work even this out for good. In my case it did not help my spouse to be happier about my decision, but I do thank God for the consistent peace He gave me. I'm praying that God will work in your wife as well as in you, and that you will both soon be able to rejoice in His freedom! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 762 Registered: 1-2003 |
Aargh! I am so frustrated. I had a rather large post and accidentally hit some key and erased it. That has never happened to me before! I wanted to tell you about my experience this weekend with my brother and sister-in-law. They moved here a few months ago from California, where my b-i-l was leader of a praise team for some SDA church. So they move not far from here to a smallish town with a conservative SDA church and the youngish pastor wants my b-i-l to lead their praise team. My husband counsels him not to do it. He saw what happened to the last SDA church we attended when drums were brought into the sanctuary and contemporary worship was attempted...the church split, and it wansn't a friendly split either. But my b-i-l feels God has led him to help the SDA with praise and worship, because their praise and worship is pretty dead. I told him it was because if you live in fear, what do you have to praise about?!?! "Thank you Lord for the coming Sabbath persecution!" I attend a non-denominational church that has cornered the market on praise. The praise team/choir is awesome...so I have been trying to get my b-i-l and wife to come to my Sunday church. It just hasn't worked out. This weekend was my daughter's birthday...we had a DJ and about 30 teenagers...we needed help with chaperonage...so I asked them to come. They did. I was tired the next day (Sunday) and laid there in bed and thought, "should I get up and go to church? the kids are tired, my husband is a little sick, I'm tired of asking my b-i-l to go?" I prayed and asked the Lord to give me a sign on going to church. I got out of bed, and my b-i-l is standing in my living room dressed and says "Let's go to church!" There's my sign. We all went...when I got there however, I started to dispair a little. I have never seen the song choices so poor...the praise team/choir was not "on" that day...and that has never happened before. I'm like, Lord, do something!!! They'll never come back! Then the pastor gets up and wow! The pastor was ON! I mean he is always good but he was really ON! The sermon was about how once God gives you a task (mission) how sometimes you try to rush ahead in the flesh but God puts you in a holding pattern to test your faith, and then in His time it just all falls together smoothly. Wow. That sermon was for my b-i-l. Because he wants to jumpstart the SDA's, he says he was called to do this but it isn't happening like he thought it would. He left the service rather blown away...he felt that was a prophetic word for him. I think he was a little perplexed that the Holy Spirit would speak to him in a sunday church. When it was done, he said, "This guy seems really comitted to obedience to the Lord, I bet if someone presented the Sabbath to him he would accept it." I didn't say anything but man was I frustrated. Later I said to my husband..."Why would the Sabbath need to be presented to him? What would that do for him? Would it make him any more saved?" My husband said, "You have to understand that he gave a standard SDA answer because it's hard to see the outpouring of the Holy Spirit so heavily somewhere that isn't keeping the Sabbath." Which leads me to the question...is the Sabbath keeping in SDA churches preventing the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? I am sure my b-i-l is having some thoughts this week...the cognitive dissonance is probably working overtime. At least he was open minded enough to attend. Maybe it planted some seeds. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3499 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki, I have long believed that the Sabbath, among other things such as not clearly presenting the gospel and the centralitiy of Christ ALONE, inhibits the Holy Spirit. Adventists have always said that the Sabbath is the seal of God. (Some now say it's the SIGN of the seal of God...little difference, actually.) The Bible says the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. The Sabbath sits in the place of the Holy Spirit in Adventism. Obviously, some Adventists are saved and indwelt by the HS. In general, however, the church places the Sabbath in the position of the Holy Spirit. They would argue this conclusion, but in fact there's no way around it. They officially teach the Sabbath is the seal of Godóor the visible mark that a person is saved in the last days. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 763 Registered: 1-2003 |
What got me is...how could you be in such a Holy Spirit filled place, be obviously moved, and then want to present the Sabbath truth to someone who is so obviously used by the Holy Spirit...If the Holy Spirit wanted the pastor to keep Sabbath, I am sure He would have guided him to it a looooonnnng time ago. I was just like (in my mind)..."Whatever...the Sabbath obviously has a stronghold on you if that's all you can think about after that!" My pastor has been a pastor for 20 years, and a professor of theology (a dean at a Baptist university) a big time scholar, versed in Hebrew and Greek...I am sure at one time or another the Sabbath had to come up somewhere! I can just see my b-i-l approaching him with it...good grief! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 978 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pheeki, have faith that the Lord would use such a confrontation to open the opportunity for you brother-in-law to see the real truth. Your pastor is a very educated and capable Christian servant of the Most High. I'm sure he is more than equal to such an event. It wouldn't hurt if you were to give him a tip-off about the possibility of such a move on the part of your brother-in-law. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 173 Registered: 6-2005 |
I thought this would be an appropriate place to post a brief update and ask for prayer. I am spending the week in Fla with my parents. Its the first time we have been face to face since I told my mother I was attending another church. Yesterday we had a long discussion where I was able to state more directly my convictions. I told her I believed that not only was I worshipping elsewhere, but that I had been "called out" of adventism. I wont bore you with the details, but she is devastated. Says its the worst blow of her life, worse than all the things she could name that have happened to her. It reminded me of the title of this thread, leaving adventism and miscarriages. To her, this is a greater loss than a miscarriage, to have her child "lost", and abandon the truth of the sabbath. She is greatly grieved, I understand that. I am asking you all to remember her in yours prayers. She has soo much on her, with caring for my invalid father as well. I hate to hurt her this way. I also choose to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, whatever the cost. Im sure many of you understand this. Thank you for your prayers on her behalf. Lori | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2006 |
You and she have my prayers. One thing with our parents, is that they feel that they failed as good SDA parents in raising you in The Truth, when we leave. They become full of self doubts, shame and their own perceived failings, without the assurance of Christ. Sometimes, they lash out because of that, emotionally manipulate, become defensive and project onto us that we are 'lost', etc.. Remember, it is them, who feel the true lostness without assurance. Of course they did not fail as parents and it might help to reassure her; tell her how good a mother she has been to you, raising you to adulthood. All the ways you appreciate her. And, of course, saying you love her, and do not want to burden her. Tell her you have not given up Jesus and the cross. I have found that with some SDA's, they have a hard time arguing with that simnple statement, if that is all I say, because in talk they state they believe in Jesus and the cross (although in theology, they do not. they just think they do). If she still wants to fight, there is a saying: Pick up your ball and go home. You tried, did the best you could. When the other person gets to the point, where they can 'play', then further try to connect. But, otherwise, strife only increases, and pain, not understanding. Just my own experinces. God knows yours in every detail and what to do for and in you, in every detail. I feel for you, Lori. Go with Christ; he is with you~ Cathy | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2006 |
You and she have my prayers. One thing with our parents, is that they feel that they failed as good SDA parents in raising you in The Truth, when we leave. They become full of self doubts, shame and their own perceived failings, without the assurance of Christ. Sometimes, they lash out because of that, emotionally manipulate, become defensive and project onto us that we are 'lost', etc.. Remember, it is them, who feel the true lostness without assurance. Of course they did not fail as parents and it might help to reassure her; tell her how good a mother she has been to you, raising you to adulthood. All the ways you appreciate her. And, of course, saying you love her, and do not want to burden her. Tell her you have not given up Jesus and the cross. I have found that with some SDA's, they have a hard time arguing with that simnple statement, if that is all I say, because in talk they state they believe in Jesus and the cross (although in theology, they do not. they just think they do). If she still wants to fight, there is a saying: Pick up your ball and go home. You tried, did the best you could. When the other person gets to the point, where they can 'play', then further try to connect. But, otherwise, strife only increases, and pain, not understanding. Just my own experiences. God knows yours in every detail and what to do for and in you, in every detail. I feel for you, Lori. Go with Christ; he is with you~ Cathy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 639 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hello Lori, "...continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel...to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory...which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory." (Colossians 2:23, 27) Keep on keepin' on! You are in my thoughts and prayers. Your friend who loves you in Christ, Denise | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 435 Registered: 8-2004 |
 "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it." Praying for both you and your mother, JavaGirl. | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 391 Registered: 2-2002  |
You know I'm praying for you and your family JG! May God hold you all tightly in His arms. |
