| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3567 Registered: 12-2003  |
Well, we learned something interesting tonight that really isn't as surprising as it might have beenóbut it is alarming. Richard was "monitoring" 3ABN while designing the next Proclamation, and Danny Shelton and Shelley Quinn, co-authors of the 3ABN book "Ten Commandments Twice Removed", were discussing with one other person the coming event on May 7: Ten Commandments Day. Now, this is NOT an Adventist thing. It is an event being planned by some of the most prominent names in Christianity today. 3ABN is planning to rent a large auditorium in Washington DC on May 5, two days before May 7 (which happens to be a Sunday). They have invited president Bush and members of the congress to attend. They are planning to have a large rally to cast their supportive vote with the Ten Commandments Dayóand to explain that they have the FULL understanding of the commandments. They are planning to hand out the above mentioned book that weekend to thousands of people in Washington. The Michigan Conference alone has ordered 100,000 copies of the book for its members to hand out to people. The Ten Commandments Day, however, is an event being planned to try to restore the commandments to the consciousness of the nation. In the video message on the website I've posted here is the statement that we need to return to the eternal moral law of God because He has promised to bless us if we keep the law. This is complete Galatianism. Christianity is really returning to the lawóafter all, it's much easier to have a checklist than it is to submit oneself to the Eternal God! Check out this website; it includes a page listing the members of the Ten Commandments Day project members and leaders. You'll recognize many of the names. http://tencommandmentsday.com/ No wonder the Adventists are so complacent about saying the "right" words without dealing with the bottom line issues. Christianity in general is in agreement. I'm more and more convinced that we who have emerged from Galatianism have an understanding of the gospel that is somewhat rare; it's not hard for me to see how the gospel and true Christianity could become scorned in this country. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 993 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, you have hit the central issue squarely on the nose! It is much easier to have a checklist than it is to submit oneself to the Eternal God. I believe that Paul was upset by the fact that a short list was given to the Apostalic Church. You know, the one that said not to commit sexual sin, not to eat blood, not to eat things offered to idols... The moment you give people a list they can follow they stop listening to the still small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to their hearts. It also gives them a way of saying, "Look at me, I'm playing by the rules." This, too, shall pass. It is just sad that it gives the fanatics another focal point. The true success of what they are trying to institute will be shown by whether or not there is a Ten Commandments Day in 2007. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1437 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Colleen for linking this website. Just look at the top leaders promoting this. On that link, if you click on the list of people who are supporting this you will find the great giants of the faith including Paul Crouch--The president of Heresy broadcasting network (TBN), and you will find another true brother in Christ by the name of Benny Hinn, and you will also find T.D. Jakes--who is the promoter of that great doctrine of Modalism--a heresy that Chris pointed out on the "Trinity" thread. Then you will find Ted Haggard--the esteemed president of the National Association of Evangelicals, who endorses books by Oneness Pentecostalists. You will also find Richard Roberts, the son of another great hero of the faith--Oral Roberts! He is the one who had to have a dog track owner bail him out financially, because he had a vision of a 900 foot tall Jesus who told him to build a medical school which bombed out totally and went bust. So-called evangelicalism today is in a spiral decline. Those mentioned above are truly the blind guides--the so-called leaders. Give us more people like John MacArthur, and many others who really have a prophetic voice today. Stan | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2005  |
It's hillarious, but this site was presented two months ago here in Romania as a proof of the coming Sunday Law! The student at the Theological Adventist Institute in Bucharest, Romania, didn't know about the SDA church implication, and enforced the idea that protestantism is Babylon, using some of the names of evangelical leaders mentioned by Stan. But, check this comments made by Samuele Bacchiocchi, the Sabbath apologet for SDA, that are in his last newsletter
I don't know how to explain very well the situation, but Samuele just recognized that the Decalogue cannot and is not the law written in the heart of believers. If he believes that indeed, the decalogue can be written in the heart, he will not say that adventists are supporting dispensationalists, just by using the words "written in the heart". After all, this is a biblical concept, and to accuse adventists who are trying to identify the law written in the heart with Decalogue that they in reality supports the New Covenant theology, is amazing! I believe that in his newsletter Samuele Bachhiocchi actually reveales the fact that he understands very well the issues at stakes. He understands that there is indeed a opposition between the law writen on stones, and the law written in the heart, between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. With other words, he said that adventists cannot talk about the law written on stones, the Decalogue, using the words "written on the heart". He pleads with adventists to use the consecrated term "Ten Commandments", which contains the idea of written in stone. I know that his words are confusing, but if we read carefully, he actually recognized the incompatibility of the two covenants. He sabotaged himself, because he only gives proof that the dichotomy which he had tried to discredit is real. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 334 Registered: 2-2001 |
Am I way off base in my understanding of the 10 Commandments? I went to the web site and it talks about a day coinciding with the time the 10 commandments were given to all mankind. I thought that they were given to the Children of Isreal as a guide after 420 years in captivity. Otherwise why would they be prefeced with "Im the Lord thy God, which have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the land of bondage". Am I taking the passage too literaly? | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 233 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jackob: TRUE-- Your words about Samuele Bacchiochi REALLY understanding the difference between the Law written on stone and the Law written in our hearts, are SO true! That fact comes out strongly in those quotes doesn't it? You are so insightful. Thanks for the quotes! Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2005 |
Colleen: Alarming is the only word I can think of...you may have already said that. I can't help but be fearful of a nation who is so powerful--and yet doesn't understand the Gospel. I need to give this fear to the Lord... Stan: YIKES! So, 3ABN will join with those folks to promote Sabbath even though most everything out of their mouths is outright heresy? Somehow I am surprised. I will begin praying immediately. Please, God, may your Will, Works and Ways become clear to these people who are so desperate to hold onto something that only gives perpetuates bondage-- sin and death. Please show them the way to Life and Truth. Be with each one of us here, help us to be Your Light of Truth. Amen. Patria | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 625 Registered: 4-2000  |
Violet, Your eyes are serving you very well. Indeed, the prologue to the Ten Commandments ("Ten Words" in the Hebrew text) declares: "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the house of slavery" (Ex.20:2 NASB). Furthermore, the Deuteronomic version of the Decalogue says that the weekly Sabbath is directly linked to their Egyptian slavery (see Deut. 5:15). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2006 |
This celebrated day for the 10 C. troubles, concerns and grieves me for Christans, everywhere. Thank you for the alert, Colleen. I've been watching this *trend* for years.I, too, wonder where it will end up and how powerfully? It has been growing for a long time. I really began to see it strongly, within grass-roots America, when that battle with the 10 C. happened in the courtroom in Alabama, with that judge. In the early part of this century, I was receving something from Chuck Missler Ministries. He said that he and his wife had been convicted by the Holy Spirit to keep the Sabbath. I felt sickened. (I have no ties to him, now, for many reasons) Also, then, in the Home-Church movement, I read of some Christians beginning to do this, but not the majority. It was soon, after I found where I believe God led us for a denomination, that the 10 C. vs the courtroom battle occurred. Our pastor preached a sermon about it, which cleared up some of my confusion. He pointed out that, although, in general, these laws are good for fallen mankind to follow, they are moot in *power*. The law cannot save, cannot transform, cannot regenerate a dead soul. *Only* Jesus Christ can do all that because of *the cross* and the conquering of Death by our risen Christ. He asked, why are not Christians focusing on the Cross and what Christ did there? Besides the Resurrection, which Paul said, without the cross was in vain? (Death had to conquered) Recently, I read a poll (On a Lutheran site) that a majority of Lutherans (my denomination) believe that keeping the Law is primary. I can see how this happens, when one is raised in a church, is used to hearing it all the time, and it doesn't sink in. I, from observation, believe that many Christians, from all denominations, can be like this; thus are vulnerable to this trend. I have had Christians aquaintences, who were raised in the Lutheran and other established denominations, who believe that they were not 'saved'; then they have gone into new things and groups, ending up in complete works, thinking that by 'doing something for God', they are more 'saved'. My heart was troubled every time. Christians like this are very vulnerable to Adventist conversion, especially. Do not Adventists have 'it' all down perfectly, better than anyone else?!!!! (I am being facetious) I have read posts, even on this site, where people were seduced into Adventism and the Law, needing to be more moral, do more, and feel more saved. All of this is not new. It is an old, old lie, repeating itself, again. So many Christians (including some more liberal SDA's) read and follow these leaders--some of whom Stan mentioned--that it is very troubling for the Body of Christ. Jesus called these types of leaders, in his day, *Sons of the Devil and serpents*. That's very serious. And they were perfectly 'keeping' the Law. In one of Jackob's quotes (thanks Jakcob!), there was a phrase, 'Law is Love'. How that gives me the creeps!!!! On an SDA forum, a few months ago (R/S), someone said that all releationships are based on LAW. I was just chilled to the bone. But, it rang true about Adventism and how my own childhood, SDA home ran, under my father and Ellen White. Love=Law;perfect obedience; never being sure; rarely forgiven. (I thought to myself, I sure feel sorry for this man's wife and kids on that forum)Not all SDA homes are like this, but too many are; based on Law, not founded on genuine love and grace. (even 'tough love'--facing consequences-- is still based on love, with forgiveness) Scripture says "God IS love". The original. A noun, not verb; although he acts in love as well, of course. (I was in my 30's before I noticed that distinction) As an SDA, intuitively, I understood God as Law. God is Law. The LAW points to DEATH as an icon. The CROSS points to LIFE in the here and now. Christ in us; himself working in us, through us, in spite of our fallible selves, reminding us, even when we do not realize it. No external reminders needed. No icons anywhere necessary; no 'holy' places, acts not objects. We have a Holy God within. Christ is with us--Emanuel--always, forever. "I will never leave you nor forsake you". Through the Holy Spirit, he becomes a part of us, our living, resurrected souls, minds, emotions, actions. Choosing an icon and act of death (our own self-righteous works), over and over throughout Humanity's history (of whatever kind), just prooves how much and how *innately* we need our Savior. *By born nature*, Humanity chooses to honor an icon of death, rejecting the life resurrected. It stuns me, at times, when I see this trend in America (and Europe, Africa); sorrows me; reminds me of what I was like; but it never surprises me. Cathy | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 394 Registered: 7-2004  |
Today at church, the sermon unfortunately was on the 10 Commandments. While emphasis was made that it is impossible for the 10 Commandments to save us and that we are not justified by obeying the Law, I was still disturbed over the general flow of the sermon. It seemed to consider the 10 C's as our guide (I thought the Holy Spirit is now our guide), and God's standard (I thought Jesus is the standard and the 10 C's is not complete), etc. Our pastor even briefly mentioned his feeling about the push for the 10 C's to be publically displayed, that he's all for it because at least God's Word would be out there. That's not exactly a bad idea, but I'd much rather John 3:16 was out there than the 10 C's! I don't know yet if or how our church will plan to be involved with 10 C's day on May 7, but if they make a big deal out of it, I'm not going to church that day. | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 75 Registered: 2-2006 |
I need to correct and make something clear: Without the resurrection, Paul said the cross was in vain. Rereading my sentence, I think I stated it backwards.  | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 76 Registered: 2-2006 |
Raven, I'm with you 100% in your discernment and feeling. "God's WORD be out there"? God's LIVING WORD is Jesus Christ! And revealed in all scripture. HE should be 'out there', proclaimed, raised up, preached, taught. Not the 10 C. I am afraid we all will run into this more and more. Sometimes, in overt ways and, more often, subtle ways. Remaining grounded in the pure Gospel, by scripture and prayer, will keep us from getting confused. Evil wants us to be confused between Law and Gospel and what is taught by some humans (no matter how good and loving their motives are, in some ). That's all I know for myself, when this has happened. The Holy Spirit always leads me back to the cross, Christ and grace alone. Clear and *simple*. Cathy | ||
| Johnl Registered user Username: Johnl Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2006  |
I saw that same program Richard was watching on 3ABN last night. I was so thankful that I had tendered my written resignation from the SDA Church last week. Along with MLK I believe I can now proclaim, FREE at last, FREE at last, thank the Lord, I'm FREE AT LAST. Your prayers are most welcome in this transition. John | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2004  |
Congradulations! And you do have my prayers! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 626 Registered: 4-2000 |
Colleen, The email address given on the Ten Commandments Commission website (info@tencommandmentsday.com) is apparently non-operational. My email to them was returned this afternoon. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2005 |
John: Praise the Lord! Congratulations on your huge step of faith. May God continue to richly bless you!! Patria | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2006 |
Johnl, My prayers are with you and so is Jesus as you begin your new path with our Lord! Welcome to one place in the Family of God. Even after decades away from Adventism, the phrase you so wondefully soulfully 'shout' "Free at last", resounds through my mind, too! FREE! May you always be grounded in Christ and grace alone~ Cathy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2397 Registered: 3-2004  |
Johnl, Congratulations on submitting your resignation letter. Free at last, Free at last. Thank the Lord I am free at last. Those words resound in my head as that is how I felt when I decided not to be rebaptized in the SDA church. God is awesome in how He takes each individual out of the SDA church. Diana | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 181 Registered: 6-2005 |
John, I think more on the lines of "freebird", but in any case, Praise God for your freedom. The angels must be singing in an awesome chorus, as all of heaven rejoices. You will be in my prayers, as a fellow "newbie" to freedom in Christ alone. JavaGirl | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3568 Registered: 12-2003 |
John, We are also praying for you. Congratulations; I remember how freeing and also momentarily terrifying that resignation is. God is faithful. He both gives us Himself and brings others into our lives to help hold us up! Colleen |
