| Author | Message | ||
| Prinsen Registered user Username: Prinsen Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 |
I always considered James as a book hard to understand. As an Adventist it mostly ment that we have to keep the commandments (James 2:10-13). But now the book of James has found a new meaning. As I have been reading it over and over again this week, I realize how my own life has changed since I really came to know Christ. When I was an Adventist I thought that since I believe in Jesus Christ (which was mostly intellectually) I had to try keeping the commandments but now since I really know him my life in Christ brings mercy (to those in need). I donít claim to be saint because Iím not, but it is a remarkable thing to discover really, how my life has been changed because of Christ, how it has changed for the benefit of others. It has changed because of faith, not obedience. James doesnít tells us we must keep the commandments but he tells us that a true faith in Christ brings good deeds and mercy. Our good deeds show that we are saved and alive IN CHRIST. Our deeds are not of loyalty (keeping the law) but because of our faith (showing mercy). /Martin | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 105 Registered: 2-2006 |
Beautiful, Martin. Thank you. I feel so happy, when someone writes about their learning of Christ like you did. We just cannot get enough and need enough of him, more and more. Personally, I would enjoy everyone's thoughts, SDA experiences and growth in understanding and perspectives about this book. I cannot count how many times my conservative SDA father has (and still does) thrown the book of James at me, including the verse about the devils believing and trembling-- because I have quoted Romans 10:9 to him. I get so weary of being compared to a devil because I believe.  I've seen this happen on SDA forums, too--The book of James and those devils used to refute the true Christ and Gospel power to transcend and transform ourselves unto good works for others. If we have not love...? (1 Corinthians 13) I have not seen Christ's spirit of love much on many SDA threads, even to *each other*. I've been appalled. (and on other types of Christian forums, too) Human nature likes to be right, in the spotlight and honored by men; and human nature fights to defend its pride. Deeds of show and words of the tongue. James speaks to this. For years, I struggled with James because of the fears my dad and SDA conditioning/thinking placed within me. Even though I knew that there were things in Adventism which were badly wrong, including about EGW, and the Gospel, my mind just garbled up, when I read James. I kept reading Adventist-speak, instead of Christ in it. Finally--I can't recall how (perhaps, Des Ford)-- I got it--the fruits of the Holy Spirit (at the least, these in the meaning to begin with; there are the gifts, too), which come from Christ in us, through the Holy Spirit. Grace from Christ to make us truly ALIVE; Faith creating our deeds and words (even thoughts and emotions) truly, deeply, lovingly ALIVE in Christ, to others. A different kind of thing, different type of depth, than the World knows in their 'good works'. Why else, would it say 'they' shall know us by our love? The World loves all over the place in their belief systems and acts. It is THE main teaching from channeled spirits to New Agers. Wiccans have a code--an Oath for some-- to never, ever do harm, only good. What is the difference? Christ's good works are THE ONLY, resurrected-living reality, of God Himself; supernatural. Above and beyond us. Not by our own power, but by the power of Christ. Transforming. We cannot define and quantify it anymore than we can make tangible matter and mass out of the concept of love. It just is. It is true because It Is Written and Christ makes it activate within us from graced faith. These transformed, living works from Christ within us become real, tangible, different, when we live them, give them, truly feel them in compassion and empathy, speak them to others; from, through and in Christ alone. And Self dies, as Christ lives in us and HE lives in his works, through us. Apart from the power of Christ, we are utterly no different, at all, whatsoever, than the good works and peoples of the World and all other religions, down from antiquity. And these works have nothing to do with the 10 C. James' examples of bad behavior are unloving actions, especially, with our ***words*** and ***inner attitudes*** towards others. I know I have been very guilty of those in my lifetime, but by being *distracted* by the 10 C and continuing to try changing myself *on my own*, I wasn't empowered by Christ within; enabled to be transformed past *myself*. My focus was on me, me, me. "I must be good enough now! I've done good works!!!!" I, I, I. Then, I would 'fall', yet again. Hopeless. My faith in the Law of Stone crushed me into dust and a slow inner death. Straight onto my head, heart and lungs, metaphorically. No life of hope about myself (me, me, me) left to my mind, emotions, soul and breath of Life from God, The Judge. Dead. ...without Living grace and faith, which creates Living works. My own unloving thoughts, emotions, words and actions far, far have gone *beyond* the 10 C, since I was born, and I have broken some of the really big 10, too! If I had only followed the 10 C, I would be home free. But I haven't. My black little heart,mind and pride went soul deep. I needed (and still do, daily) the power of *Christ's* transforming works within me. I need Christ. The Law is easy. It is *external*. Our sinfulness, corruption, goes so, so far down *internally* (even genetically--inherited disease, a result of the Fall's corruption), we cannot conceive it. We certainly cannot see all of our own faults all the time. It is a Mystery of Iniquity, which we understand only in part. If faith were easy, all the World would believe. By trusting in the law, Christ's power was diluted for my understanding, except that Jesus made sure that I understood enough, in time, by his scripture, mercy and grace. I most completely believe and trust that the Holy Spirit has done this for our understandings (and more, of course), is doing and will continue to do this for all of us. Even for that so-called difficult book James! If they throw the book at you, keep standing on the Word, regardless: ~that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;~ Romans 10:9 New American Standard Bible Believing, but I sure do not tremble! ***Rejoicing*** in my Lord, who does all things in me, beyond what I can even comprehend or imagine! Cathy BTW, there are some good scriptural expositions about James on the internet. I'm sorry, I do not have any of them filed away, but Googling could lead to some. It is a book which has confused other types of Christians, as well, besides SDA's. | ||
| Rafael_r Registered user Username: Rafael_r Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2006 |
James wrote to people that were allready christians (regenerated, born again), to tell them that they most shows their faith in Christ by good works, by a good and moral behavior. when sombody use this letter to show the way of salvation is making a mistake. This book is just the other side of the coin. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1005 Registered: 7-2004 |
Rafael, Thank you for making that clear. James does not show you the way to the cross, he is talking about what the cross does in the converted, regenerated Christian. He's not talking about works making you right, he's saying your works show that you've already been made right. Another little bit of information, when James speaks of commands, he's speaking of Jesus' teachings. What do those teachings say, "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind, and your brother(s) as yourself. Moreso, Christ said, "Love each other as I have loved you." None of us can live up to that, but we can certainly aspire! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2005 |
I like this thread because recently, I've had James thrown at me as well. In fact, I was recently told that if we are TRULY being led by the Spirit (like I claim), we would be honoring God and showing our love for Him by remembering His sacred day. My friend went on to say that if our feeling of being led by the Spirit, doesn't produce this "fruit" of obedience to His commands, then we have to question whether we're really being led by God's Spirit. And then I was told to prayerfully read James  . Cathy -- I liked what you said, "Grace from Christ to make us truly ALIVE; Faith creating our deeds and words (even thoughts and emotions) truly, deeply, lovingly ALIVE in Christ, to others. A different kind of thing, different type of depth, than the World knows in their 'good works'." There's a trust and a deep feeling (like you said a different kind of depth) that confirms for me personally that it's God's Spirit. I don't worry about being led by a "different spirit" anymore. I wish I could explain it so that they can see and be reassured that I'm not commiting spiritual suicide. I have a hard time explaining it, and maybe it's one of those things that you have to experience to understand. Until then, I guess I'll just have to be misunderstood. My friends and family are always a bit shocked when they say, "I'll be praying for you" and I immediately respond, "I'll be praying for you too." | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2005  |
Snowboardingmom wrote that she was told: "...if our feeling of being led by the Spirit doesn't produce this "fruit" of obedience to His commands, then we have to question whether we're really being led by God's Spirit." Maybe we could try a response like this: "Yes, we really should produce the fruit of obedience to His commands. Would you mind stoning me, please? I broke the Sabbath last week by turning on my electric lights, which, as we all know, is lighting a fire and is therefore strictly forbidden and punishable by death. "If you don't show the fruit of obedience to this command, you must question whether you're really being led by God's spirit. If you reason your way out of this response to my disobedience, you're changing God's law. "If we take it upon ourselves to change God's law, we are setting up ourselves as gods in God's place, which is idolatry. The only One who can change God's law is Himself, which he did at Calvary, when the temple curtain was rent in two from top to bottom. "His shed blood ratified the new covenant, which was made between God the Father and God the Son, enabling me to trade my sinfulness for Christ's righteousness. No amount of obedience on my part, however small, can take the place of Christ's work on my behalf. "There is only one place in the New Covenant that hints that I should observe one day above another and that is in Romans 14. And my only allowable reason for doing so would be to keep from offending a brother or sister who has weak faith." | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3668 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great observations about James! This book used to bother me a lot, too. A few years ago we studied it in women's Bible study at church, and I suddenly understood it as all of you have explained it. What I realized was that James was writing to the scattered Jewish believers who had fled Jerusalem because of persecution. They really didn't have congregations to go to; they were isolated Christians in foreign lands and perhaps surrounded by observant Jews. Paul hadn't yet written his epistles, and James was encouraging these fledgling, isolated believers who didn't have congregations. His readers were well-versed in the Old Testament, and James refers to the OT, the Scripture that they knew, to help them understand how to live as Christ-followersóborn again believers who were just discovering that their heritage was fulfilled in Jesus their Messiah. It just made so much more sense to me when I understood the historical setting of the book. Colleen | ||
| Prinsen Registered user Username: Prinsen Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2005 |
Dear friends, how wonderful to see that somone else has got the hang of it. I have a mindset that I am not sure of is accurat but listen to it anyway. God's general commandment for man is ìLove God and your neighbour as yourselfî and the ten commandments all are built on this command. The ten commandments were given to Israel as Gods people from Sinai until Christ. What James is trying to say in his letter is that the ten commandments is not enough, there is more to it, and that is ìto love God and your neighbour as yourselfî (which is much wider than the 10 C). The difference between Israel and us living in Christ though is that we have the Holy Spirit working in us making us day by day to be living lives in compassion for others. /Martin | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1006 Registered: 7-2004 |
I haven't been spending as much time here at FAF recently because I've been actively posting at CARM. What I have noticed is that Adventists love the book of James because a superficial scan of the book seems to support the keeping of the law (Torah). I've gotten used to seeing the word Torah a lot more because there are several Messianic Jews who also post on the CARM/SDA web-link. The Adventists love the MJs, but only so far as they support Sabbath and the law. The MJs correct the Adventists because they pick and choose which laws they want to keep and toss the rest. They both hate the Born-agains because they think the Born-agains are tossing all laws out the window and teaching that Christ obliterated the law. What I find amusing is that both MJs and SDAs avoid the use of such terms as "fulfilled" or "accomplished." All of that just to say that we all have our pet ways of saying things. I postulated that James is written from the idea that once a person is "in Christ" their life will reflect the fact in their behaviors. Behaviors cannot produce salvation, but salvation can produce behaviors. I'm still getting resistance. What say you? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1007 Registered: 7-2004 |
Martin, I find your approach to be totally correct. Even though mankind as a whole has been a bust at lawkeeping, the law within the born-again Christian is higher, wider, and deeper than any written code can ever be. The more specific a law is, the narrower its effect in application. For instance the command against adultery could be read by some to apply only to people who are married--the unmarried need not concern themselves with sexual purity until they take vows of matrimony. I'm not advocating this position, but I have known people who do. When you take a broad brush and say that the Holy Spirit will lead you to love God and man (agape style), your life will reflect the purity that is inherent in the broad scope of that statement. It is a much higher calling. |
