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Benevento
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Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some years ago a psstor and the assist. pastor left a SDA church in Portland and took a lot of the congregaton with them. I haven't heard what
became of it, and with my husband's illness and death I lost track of even the websites--I was wondering if anyone knows what became of it? Peggy
Dd
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Post Number: 661
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Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh boy...that was such an upsetting event. It was at the Sunnyside Church (on the Portland Adventist Hospital "campus"), my parent's church. The pastor's name was Bretch (spelling is wrong, I think) and my parents loathed him (he bought Coke from a vending machine on Sabbath, you know! :-)). All I ever heard was my parent's side of the story and it was not at all positive regarding these pastors you mention. All I could share would be gossip and since I do not know facts, I am reluctant to share.

I have prayed for these pastors because I am sure there is so much more to this story than my parents could ever know and understand because of their deep love and committment to the SDA church. Since I have heard the other side, I too would love to know the rest of the story and how these pastors are doing.

Patriar
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Post Number: 244
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Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I don't know the full story, either, but I do know Pastor Bob Bretsch. He was at the Union College church (College View Church) for many years.

I've wondered, too what happened because even at Union, he was considered quite liberal in his thinking. When I first heard the story it was all about how wrong he was. Now that I'm an "apostate" too :-), I'd like to know more of the story...

Patria
Schasc
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Post Number: 57
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Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know the youth pastor at the church and contacted him awhile back about bringing a group to his church. It did not work out, but they are a Sabbath keeping church. I dont really know much after that...............
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 3667
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Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as I know, Bretsch's church still exists. Schasc's right about it being a Sabbath church; I don't know too much else, either. I interviewed Bretsch in the late 90s when he split from the Sunnyside church; my sense was that while they shed a lot of the Adventist trappings, some of the bottom line issues re: the original split were perhaps more financial than doctrinal. There were some disagreements with the denomination's regulations (tithe and so forth...).

I really know no details and can't remember too much from back then. I think Bridge City (the breakaway church) has had a fairly loyal core of membersóat least as of a few years ago that was my sense about it.

Colleen
Chris
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Post Number: 1202
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Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know Pastor Bretsch from College View and have had recent correspondence with him. I also receive his weekly news letter. He is the Pastor of the Christian Growth Center in Portland. The church rents a church from another congregation and meets on Saturday, but I don't see him referring to "Sabbath" in his e-mails or his newletter. He always talks about "next Saturday". The church is involved in the Portland kids program on Saturdays and does a lot of things with the kids that don't sound like Sabbath activities to me. I don't get the sense from corresponding with Pastor Bretsch that he is Sabbatarian in his thinking anymore, but I haven't specifically asked him his views.

Chris
Tealeaves
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Post Number: 297
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Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bridge City... I do know some of what went on. We wnet to that church quite a while ago, when it first split off of Sunnyside.
Pastor Bretsch is now still with the Christian Growth Center, and he and his wife run an organization called Portland Kids International that is doing some awesome things for lower income latchkey kids in Portland.
The Bretsches left Bridge City quite a while ago, and Bridge City has had a rough road in recent times.
Although I haven't been there in some years, I have heard some of the goings-on through the grapevine. They have definitely had some trouble...some infidelity between 2 of the pastors, even, that ended in the dismissal of both of them. I don't think their beliefs command Sabbath-keeping, in fact, last I heard, some of the pastoral staff were not Sabbath-keepers, or even ex-SDAs, themselves. Just mainstream Christian. But many of the people still attending there are ex-SDA. From what I hear, it isn't extremely healthy, of at least wasn't in the last few years.

I am thankful for Bridge City in that it helped my husband transition out of the SDA church. It was the first non-SDA church he had ever attended.
-tanya-

Windmotion
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Post Number: 291
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Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.bridgecity.org/

"On April 19, 1997, two couples met for coffee at Starbucks. They were disheartened by the increasingly hierarchical and political aspects of their own church, their denomination and how those factors seemed to be actively undermining the intentional ministry and outreach of their local church. They were disappointed because their church seemed to have such potential for making a significant impact in Portland, and yet due to a vocal and influential group this potential was just not being realized. More and more, the church they loved seemed like a country club that wanted to keep people out rather than an inclusive, caring community that wanted to draw people in. They began to dream about a church that didn't just talk about God's love, grace and forgiveness, but that actually put those principles into action."

I wonder what church that was :-)

Interestingly enough, they don't have a building of their own yet. I wonder why that isnt that high of a priority.

Helpfully,
Hannah
Tealeaves
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Post Number: 298
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windmotion, you mentioned that "they don't have a building of their own yet, I wonder why that isn't a priority".
In my experience with a lot of young churches, their decision to make having a building can shift their focus away from simply serving Christn. Sometimes they start dwelling on building funds and programs instead of resting in Christ. I know so many wonderful thriving churches that meet at high school gymnasiums
and other churches on "off-days".

I suppose it could be that Bridge City's attendance and support goes up and down, so they haven't been able to really bite into a building project. But when I was 6 years ago, their stance was that there were so many more importnant things than having their own building, and they could use their energy, attention, and finances in more people-related ways. That they would think of the church building if God really laid that on their hearts, but they weren't going to make that a big priority.
-tanya-
Tealeaves
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Post Number: 299
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Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did adnyone else go to Sunnyside SDA at the time of the split?
I was just finishing nursing school at Walla Walla College, so I attended Sunnyside off and on. It was a schizophrenic Church, really. The "liberal" pastor(s) had all sorts of great outreach programs going, while a group of stodgy hardcore SDAs had seizures at the very thought of the church hosting a Christian Dance Group for practices on Satruday evenings.
When they group of malcontents, a large portion of whom were on the board, finally got fed up with everything, they sent out an unbelievable letter. I wish I still had a copy of it. It basically said that Sunnyside SDA Church was designed from the beginning to minister to the SDA Community in the Portland Area. That it was NOT designed to reach out to the community at large and welcome non-SDAs through it's doors.

Seriously, the letter read like something a high school cheerleader might write because they didn't like the influx of chubbier or uglier girls being allowed on the team. The Board started doing all sorts of crazy stuff, like changing the locks and not giving the pastors on the "outs" list the new keys.
I think the ruling group was shocked when over half the church actually left with Bob Bretsch. They thought they were the majority in their thinking, but that turned out not to be the case.

A few years ago, my husband wrote a letter to Sunnyside SDA and asked for his name to be removed from the SDA membership roles. He gave some of his reasons for placing his faith now in Christ alone rather than the SDA tenets. The current pastor wrote a very peaceable letter back saying that they were sorry to see him go, but were glad to hear that he was staying a brother in Christ, and looked forward to meeting with him in Heaven. No malice, very agreeable. We were pleasantly surprised at that.
-tanya-
Colleentinker
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Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard and I were ruminating this weekend about the late 90's when there was quite a flux of Adventist pastors who were either fired or who left under rather hostile circumstances, especially in the North Pacific Union with some additional notable cases elsewhere such as Clay Peck in Colorado and Richard Fredericks in Maryland.

It seems that perhaps the church has figured out that firing pastors is counter-productive unless there is clear immorality, etc. There seems to be no lessening of those who are willing to try inventive new experiements in congregationalism, "grace-oriented" preaching, etc., but we're not hearing about any firings.

Even Ron Gladden, who began his independent Mission Catalyst program in which independent churches are loosely associated under his umbrella, was not to my knowledge "fired" or "defrocked"óalthough I do not think he actually works for the church now. I'm not certain of the details. While the GC did not allow him to operate his independent program under the banner of the church, still the churches that start within Mission Catalyst teach Adventism. The catch is that because they're not under the SDA "umbrella", they don't call themselves "Adventist". Greg Taylor, in fact, reported that several former Adventist pastors in Uganda had met some Mission Catalyst representatives and at first were excited because they were offering to help these men establish congregations. As time passed, however, they discovered that Mission Catalyst was embracing honoring the law, and the African pastors wanted to make a statement that clearly showed they were not part of that group.

The "climate" is very different now than it was 10 years ago. At the same time that there is a "push" from the GC to get Ellen's writings out to the new members in the third world and to reinforce teaching the "distinctives" everywhere, at the same time there seems to be a permissiveness that allows people to stay Adventist with fewer of the visible denominational "identifiers".

I could be wrong, but I think a couple of things are happening. One is that the church is trying to stop the hemorrhage of members from the North American church. Another is that more and more Adventists are becoming aware of the problems. If the church is less rigid, more of those people can rationalize staying because they can argue that the "distinctives" aren't important anymore.

While all this is going on at the surface, underneath I believe God is bringing people to crises of faith. More and more Adventists are having to ask themselves what they really believe, and what they're going to do about it. Are they going to cast their lot with Jesus alone and follow Him only, or are they going to re-interpret their Adventism so they can stay? At the same time, many Adventists are returning to historic Adventism in a reaction to the loss of clear Adventist identity they see in the churches.

It's an interesting time. We just need to keep praying for God to remove the veil and to soften hearts to accept His freedom from the bondage of their deception or dishonesty.

Colleen
Windmotion
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Post Number: 292
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Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that is true with young churches, Tanya. I would venture that after 10 years a church isn't so young anymore ...
Clarifying,
Hannah

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