| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3692 Registered: 12-2003  |
I received a question via email from someone who, for a variety of reasons, would like to have a certain question addressed but has some delicate family situations and does not wish to receive an email reply. The question is about the claim that many Adventists make that they are "spiritual Jews". People such as Doug Batchelor preach about this idea and use various texts to support it. I'll list some texts which I believe clearly teach that Israel has not been "replaced", and I would welcome any of you to add your comments and texts. Romans 9, 10, and 11 are perhaps the clearest passages in the Bible about the fact that God is not yet "done" with Israel. Besides the fact that many of the OT prophecies foreshadow a future for Israel, Paul is very clear that they have been hardened "in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in" (Rom 11:25) . Romans 9 walks through the history of God's call of Abraham and the formation of Israel through a series of sovereign miracles. Romans 9 discusses the eternal nature of God's promises and of His election. It clarifies that what God has promised, He WILL do. If His promise was His unilateral word, as in the case of His promises to Abraham, those promises are unconditional. Only the Mosaic covenant was conditional. God's promises to Abraham, to David regarding a king who would always sit on his throne, His promise of the New Covenant...these are all unconditional. They do not depend upon any performances or agreement of any human. They are based on God's sovereign word. Romans 11 is also clear that Jews and Gentiles will all be saved in the same way. All are bound to disobedience so they may receive mercy (Rom 11:31). Ephesians 2 is also very clear that the wall dividing the Jews and Gentiles has been destroyed in the body of Christ, and they will all be saved in the same way. Roman 11, however, clearly explains that the Jews are partially hardened by the sovereign will of God for a period of time while Gentiles come to Christ and experience the new birth. At some point, God will remomve that "hardening", and Jews will again be open to recognize and accept Jesus as their Savior. Paul does not say that every single Israelite will be saved, but he does suggest that while today only a few Jews occasionally find Jesus, a time is coming when the Jews will be as responsive as the Gentiles have been by God's grace. God is sovereign; His promises cannot fail. While the Bible is not absolutley clear how and when these things will happen, it is clear that they WILL happen. Colleen | ||
| Brix Registered user Username: Brix Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi Colleen, I to have heard this expression applied to Christians, not only from Doug Batchelor, but from several church leaders in mainstream evangelical churches. Calling us "spiritual jews" is just spiritualizing a lable that sounds good to us, but doesnot have a bases in scripture, in my oppinion. You are quite correct in saying that God isnt finnished with the jews yet, for they to are Abrahams decendents. Gal 3v26-29 Tells us that in Christ Jesus, we are all son of God. Gender or national origan or church is not in the equation......BRIX | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1497 Registered: 3-2005 |
I agree with Brix, that not only SDAs teach that the church has replaced Israel. However, I agree Colleen that God is sovereignly saving Jewish people now, just like He is saving gentiles. Those who minister to Jewish people are saying that now, more than ever Jewish people are coming to faith. I believe that all Jews who come to faith, and all gentiles who come to faith are one body united in Christ. This is why Paul in Galatians 6:15,16 can say 'Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the ISRAEL OF GOD. Ephesians 2:14-18 is one of the strongest passages that declares that Jews and Gentiles are now one body of believers. "For He himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself ONE NEW MAN out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile BOTH of them to God through the cross... I found an excellent article on the web about this topic, and I think that this author approaches this topic quite well and scripturally. The concept presented by this author is "Expansion--not Replacement". www.chaim.org/xpansion.htm Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3694 Registered: 12-2003 |
That's a great way to express itóexpansion, not replacement. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1347 Registered: 7-2003 |
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but when I hear evangelicals refer to Christians as spiritual Israel (quoting the scripture) they mean we are "God's chosen people" as Israel was once exclusively, whereas B's SDA perspective of Spiritual Israel means that Christians(Adventists) have replaced Israel in the Old Covenant or at least certain parts of it. So, back to our age old book of definitions, even though evangelicals use the term, are they defining it in the same way as adventists?? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3696 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melissa, I can't speak for every evangelical. I know that some in the Christian community deeply believe that while there will be both Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ, God is "done" with Israel as a people. If they come to Christ now, well and good. They're just part of the world with nothing setting them apart in any way from the Gentiles. Ephesians 2 is very clear that IN Christ there is absolutely no division between Jews and Gentiles. Jesus "abolished in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations" that separated the two. (Ephesians 2:15). But Romans is also very clear that the Jews have been partially hardened "until the full number of Gentiles has come in". In other words, the church has been formed largely from Gentile converts to Christianityóbut at some appointed time, that "hardening" will be lifted and Jews again will be drawn back to Godómuch, I assume, as they were repeatedlly in the OT. God would discipline them by exile or captivity, and then He would draw them back to Jerusalem and to Himself. Some Christians don't believe that God really will "deal" with Israel again as an ethnic group, drawing them to Himself. So when people refer to "spiritual Israel", I don't know without talking to them whether they are referring to the church replacing Israel as God's people, or whether they are referring to the "expanded" Israel that now includes both Jews and Gentiles. The difference might seem subtle; I think, though, that eventually the difference will be more clear. Romans 11 states that Israel is "partially hardened" for a specific amount of time, that they've been bound over to disobedience as the Gentiles had been, so that all will be included by God's mercy. It suggests that God is not done offering his promises of restoration to Isrealóbut the eventual kingdom will not just be made up of Jews. It will be ALL who believe. At least this is how I see it right now. I do know that Adventists, as you so accurately assessed, believe that Adventists ARE spiritual Israel. Colleen |
