| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2436 Registered: 3-2004  |
Today, I slept in and did not want to drive over to my church, but I still wanted to attend church services. So I, now I know it was God who directed me, decided to attend services at the Community Church of Henderson. It is the church that rents to the Adventist church on Saturdays. After the service the pastor greeted me and I asked him who he rents the church to on Saturday morning. He said the Seventh day Adventist. He also said other than the day they worship, it is evangelical. So I told him, no they are not, I am a former Adventist. They have many non Biblical beliefs. I told him to ask the SDA about the Investigative Judgement and EGWhite. He said he would. Then I told him I had some books I would bring to him. I came right home and got the 3 books by Ratzlaff, Sabbath in Crisis, something about Cultic Doctrines, and the short little book about the beliefs of SDAs. I took them right back to him (the church is 5 minutes from me). He asked me to put my name and phone number in the books, so I did. Pray for him as he reads these books that God will talk to him about what adventists really believe. And that he is firmly grounded in the Bible. I was disappointed in his sermon as it was about Christ entering Jerusalem on the donkey. That was the only scripture read for the sermon. This was why I was disappointed in the sermon. I have been wanting to do this for a long time, but it was not God's time, until today. He is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2005  |
Diana, thank you for sharing this experience with us. This is very encouraging and instructive. I will keep this in mind, as I, too, may have opportunities in the future to share with others about SDA doctrine. An interesting thing happened to me today in the Presbyterian Sunday School I've been attending for five weeks now. I've been really enjoying this church, because they definitely teach Christ alone, faith alone, grace alone and scripture alone. It's very refreshing and I look forward each week to attending. Today we were in our 4th week of studying the book of 1st John. Our female teacher is a former school teacher and principal and does an excellent job of really teaching the Word. We covered how we are not to love the 'world' or the things of the world, including reasons why God doesn't want us to love the world. One of the reasons we covered was the fact that Satan is the prince of the power of the air of this world, and as such, rules over it. One of the verses we read to support this was Ephesians 6:12, which says (NIV), "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in heavenly realms." One of my classmates asked the teacher, "This verse says the evil one is located in the heavenly realms, but I thought Satan was cast down to the earth." I immediately piped up and said, "Oh, there are layers in heaven!" The teacher looked at me, like I'd said something really cultic, and asked, "Where does it say that?" I was so humiliated! I sheepishly answered, "Didn't Paul talk about the third heaven?" Then she said, "Well let's not get into that now." They all know I've just come out of the Adventist church and I wonder if they're all thinking I'm going to be coming up with some real doozies in class every week. I came home and looked this up on CARM and found a great link that explains it the way I meant it. http://www.carm.org/questions.threeheavens.htm In the second paragraph, however, it says that, "Mormons erringly teach that the three heavens consist of telestial, terrestrial and celestial. They divide them into compartments dwelt by people after they die." I probably sounded to the class like I was promoting the Mormon view, but I wasn't doing that at all! The last thing I want to do is inject any kind of cultic doctrine into this wonderful Sunday School class or this church. But I'm wary that others may be hesitant to value anything I say, because they know of my background. Although, if it's true that most Christians don't know of Adventism's peculiar doctrines, they may not be leary of me after all. I've printed this CARM article and plan to bring it to class next week, so I can explain to the teacher that I wasn't trying to promote an erroneous doctrine. Have any of you had this kind of experience in your post-SDA fellowships? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3711 Registered: 12-2003  |
Honestwitness, this sort of thing happened to us a lot as we were having our three-year stint of weekly Bible studies with our Christian neighbors during the time we begam to realize the problems with Adventism. We'd be discussing a passage of Scripture we had just read, and Richard or I would offer a suggestion of what we though it meant. Sometimes Mel would look at us and say, "Where do you find that in the Bible?" At first it was quite embarrassing; we finally told them we had a "prophet" and told them about Ellen. They were quite amazed, and we realized that we had a lot of hidden "ellenisms" tucked into our brains. I know this isn't the same situation you experienced, though, because you apparently were not dealing with an "Ellenism"! But I do understand the embarrassment! Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3712 Registered: 12-2003 |
BTW, what a wonderful opportunity God gave you, Diana! Keep us posted... Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 415 Registered: 7-2004  |
What I did today... had wine for the first time ever, at Communion! I never intended to, and hope I don't again; it was nasty! It was kind of funny. We went to the traditional service because our daughter was the acolyte for that time. At the traditional service we kneel for Communion, and as short as I am, and at that angle, every cup looked identical, even though I knew they usually have a few white grape juice ones. I was panicking, but figured it would be strange to not participate with that when I had just had the bread, and I sure wasn't going to ask! So, I just took the wine, and boy was it strong--I think I made a face! Anyway, our sermon was also about Jesus going to Jerusalem, but I think it was done really well and there were plenty of Bible verses. That's great, Diana, the opportunity God gave you today. Thanks for sharing about it. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3716 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow, Raven--you did have a big day today! I remember shortly after we left Adventism I went with a friend of mine, also a "former", who had become Episcopalian, to her church for an Ash Wednesday service. We went forward for communion, and she instructed me on how to hold the wafer if I preferred "intinction" to drinking from the goblet. (She preferred intinctionódipping the wafer into the wine.) I remember how unsure I felt, but I carefully followed my friend's lead, and had my wafer dipped in wine after which the person administering the host (a deacon?) smudged a cross with ash on my forehead. I'll never forget the feeling of freedom and reverence I had that I was free to worship and take communion at an Episcopal church after all those years of believing that it would somehow be a sin to take communion there. Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1515 Registered: 3-2005 |
Diana, Thanks for sharing your experience. Maybe there is an opportunity to share with that pastor that Adventism is not evangelical. But, unfortunately, it doesn't sound like the church teaches the Bible much. Raven, That wine won't hurt you (smiley). Honestwitness, Thanks for the update on your church. We had a discussion some time back about that PCUSA church. And you showed me a web link to the Banner of Truth site. It clearly looks like that you did find a pocket of excellent believers in that largely liberal PCUSA church, and it seems God has blessed your search for a good church, after you left the WWCG. Stan | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 188 Registered: 4-2005  |
Raven, The "Doc" is right! :c) Ps. 104:15 is a text Adventism wishes to sweep under the carpet made out of "Egg White" fibers. "And wine that maketh glad the heart of man...." KJV "wine to cheer up the heart of man..." Moffatt "wine that gladdens the heart of man..." NIV It takes a bit more than even one glass of wine to "gladden" or "cheer up" the heart of man. The WORD is not suggesting drunkenness, but the warm joy and light heartedness that wine, especially with good company, can offer. The original Hebrew word us "yayin" which is wine that is fermented. This same word is the root word behind the Greek, referring to the "wine" Jesus created from water. It was NOT Welches! Cheers! In Jesus Christ we have EVERYTHING to celebrate. I occasionally lift my glass in a holy toast to His Majesty! Jess | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1530 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jess, A toast to you--good to see you back on! Stan | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 422 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have no moral issue with wine - I do not believe it is wrong to take in moderation. My issue is that it is repulsive to me (in the same way that most meat is for me), and apparently that perception hasn't changed even after actually having it for the first time! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3766 Registered: 12-2003 |
Raven, your post makes me ponder this (to me) really interesting issue of aversions. In watching Richard over the years struggle with his meat aversion and now Nathanael, 19, who feels the same way, and even my difficulty with seafood whose texture is different from meat, I try sometimes to figure out exactly how they (aversions) function. My issue with seafood, I've decided, is that because I learned it was unclean, that deep-seated aversion plays out in the reality that I have trouble eating that spongier texture that much of it has because it's unlike anything I grew up knowing. Ham has not been hard for me because its texture is similar to beef and chickenóat least it's similar to other "muscle meats". I have to really concentrate to eat seafood. In fact, now that Richard has faced his aversion, he can actually eat seafood more easily than I can. (To him, ALL meat was "un-food". To eat one was as hard as to eat another.) I think I'll have to face seafood just as Richard faced meat: when confronted with it, I have to give the feelings to God and ask Him to help me eat with thanksgiving! (I don't plan, however, to go out of my way to face seafoood!) None of this has to do with conscious facts. I'm sure it has to do with some emotional responses, but I'm guessing it's also related to some sort of deep fear we learned before we can remember. Not that any of these ponderings really makes any difference(!)óbut I find the phenomenon fascinating. I guess it's pretty amazing to me how deeply "programmed" we are at levels that we can't even "access" consciously. Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2005 |
I think you're right, Colleen, about the food aversion. Last Thursday, it was one of our co-worker's birthday and the restaturant she chose to celebrate at was Red Lobster. They were having a Lobster Fest special so I decided to order that (which had lobster and shrimp on it). This was not my first time having lobster or shrimp. I had both of these "unclean" meats for the first time 5 years ago on a mission trip sponsored by the Adventist church (ironic, I know). I was going through a somewhat rebellious stage at that time. Anyway, I tried it and liked it. Since then, I've had it quite a few times more, and I've continued to like it. But I'm also the type of person that will eat anything. I just don't get grossed out in that way. But...last Thursday, I did. And it shocked me. I could hardly finish my food (which is rare too) because I was getting so grossed out by it. All I kept thinking was how disgusting it was that we were eating these unclean scavengers. Texture usually never bothers me (I love sushi!), and I could barely choke down the food because the texture was grossing me out. That evening, when I told my husband, he was so shocked because he knows I'll eat anything!! At the time, I kind of just attributed it to a change of taste thing, or maybe a hormonal imbalance that made me get so grossed out (like when a person is pregnant or going through menopause). It was definitely unusual, but I didn't think much more about it. But now that you mentioned this theory, Colleen, I think you hit it right on. Here's why: last Thursday, the day before my baptism, there was a huge spiritual battle going on within me, and internally I was a MESS. ALL DAY, I had been wondering if I had made a huge mistake about Adventism, and couldn't stop dwelling on trying to differentiate what truth was. I was really struggling that day. Even without me being aware of it (I didn't put the two things together until now), I am sure it affected me mentally enough to get grossed out about something I've never gotten grossed out before on. I know it wasn't just an appetite thing, because I was still hungry after I left the restaurant because I hardly ate! That's so interesting, and fascinating. Actually, it's kind of creepy in a way too!! But as was mentioned, none of this really makes a difference! It's just interesting to note how deeply affected we are or can be by our subconsciousness. Although, I think this is only a true phenomenon for some people. There are some people who just can't separate the thought of food from the animal. For instance, someone else I work with (who has never been SDA), gets grossed out about beef because all she can think about is the cow. So there are lots of reasons for aversions, although I think for a SDA person, there may be more to it than just thinking, "moo". | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 423 Registered: 7-2004 |
The only meat I have tried so far is chicken and fish. It's chicken that I can handle the best, and only if it is boneless chicken breast, mixed in with things that have plenty of flavor. I think that's because then it's similar enough to vegetarian meat. So maybe I haven't made much progress over my aversions. Interesting experience, Snowboardingmom. I've always used the excuse that I've never liked experimenting with new flavors and am overly sensitive to textures. Anyone who knows me, knows that there's alot of vegetarian things I won't touch either. But I do think it goes deeper than that, because there's a difference between things I plain don't like and things that are psychologically traumatic to even consider eating (or drinking). | ||
| Catalyst Registered user Username: Catalyst Post Number: 122 Registered: 6-2005 |
I continue to be a vegetarian - I have never had a hankering for anything with meat in it - no monkey brain, no dead cow, no scavengers, no chicken even <grin>. I totally agree that there is no problem with eating any of these, I think that you would agree that there is also no righteousness in doing so right? Since there is no righteousness in doing it, then do it if you want or need to but there will be those of us who will remain veggie anyway <grin> Bill | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 797 Registered: 1-2003 |
This is my church...I am proud of it. If you go to more photo's and look at the congregation photo...two of my kids are to the left side, a boy and a girl. This was on the front page of the Star Telegram. http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/14350608.htm | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3782 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki--awesome! What a wonderful church God has led you to. It makes me happy to see your kids there, tooóespecially after the agony of those first months when your kids were defending Adventism to you. I just remember how agonizing that time was for you, and now we can praise God that He is bringing the light of Jesus to your family. He is amazing. Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 477 Registered: 8-2004  |
Awesome Pheeki! Thanks for sharing that article. Mary | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2460 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks Pheeki, Every time I read of what God does for mankind and how He changes one of us, I cannot help but think, He is AWESOME. Diana |
