| Author | Message | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2004 |
One of the other "kung Fu moms" from my sons kung fu class is a born and bred SDA, but was expressing her lack of fulfillment with their church. So I talke dto her a bit about the New Covenant theology ideas, she was interested. So I gave her a booklet on the New Covenant, and she said that she and her husband stayed up until after midnight studying it last night, because they were so intrigued. She has some questions, though, that I thought you all might be able to help me find some resources for her on. First, she says she is hung up on the creation week, and thinking that God made the seventh day holy, and that it must have been observed ever since as a binding part of true believers covenant with God. So do any of you know of some resources showing that not every believer since Adam has "kept the Sabbath"? Also, does anyone know of some references that show that not every New Testament Christian kept the Sabbath? I used to have some material that explained the passage where it says that "Jesus is now our "Sabbatismos" (rest), this being the same word, "Sabbatismos", that is used for Sabbath. But Ihave misplaced it. So if anyone knows where I could find that, I would appreciate it as well. She is hungry for the knowledge, I plan to provide what I can. Thanks for any info you all have! -tanya- | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2006 |
Hi Tanya lifeassuranceministries.com has a bookstore offering Sabbath in Christ and also Cultic Doctrine and several other books that will be very helpful. Check the same website for links to other websites. I think you will like Roland McKinzie's articles at gospeloutreach.net where he talks about the early church leaders and their views on the Sabbath. Jesus has given me his peace and it's just amazing. I had no idea what I was missing, or that such spiritual rest was even possible. Bob | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 166 Registered: 12-2004 |
Tanya, The New Covenant theologian John Reisinger published a wonderful article called "The Believer's Sabbath". This sermon is a terrific exposition on the Old and New Covenant Sabbath. It can be found at soundofgrace.com . In fact the whole website is a goldmine of New Covenant material. Thanks for the heads up on this theologian and website, Stan! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1563 Registered: 3-2005 |
Tanya, I think that Greg Taylor's book on New Covenant theology and Adventism is one of the best and easiest to read books. His writing style is very compelling. I agree with Randy's recommendation about the Reisinger web site. For a great exact link on the believer's Sabbath check out www.soundofgrace.com/jgr/index076.htm There is a great section on New Covenant theology starting at the following link www.soundofgrace.com/jgr/index047.htm Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1193 Registered: 10-2004  |
Tanya, I would recommend the following article: http://www.ariel.org/mshabbat.html Also, the book Sabbatarian Concordance And Commentary is a great resource (including for the Genesis passage) and is available at http://www.sdaoutreach.org/store/Home/tabid/388/ProductID/12/Default.aspx Jeremy | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 310 Registered: 5-2004 |
Tanya, I would second the Reisinger documents, and the ariel document. Also at Dale's website there's a great article: http://ratzlaf.com/Adventist%20Research%20Paper.pdf | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 311 Registered: 5-2004 |
Also at Ariel http://ariel.org/ffruit.htm msb176 is a complete verse by verse walk throught the Bible on the Sabbath. it's also very good! | ||
| Artman29 Registered user Username: Artman29 Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2006 |
Tanya, I just read that soundofgrace site and it was terrific! Andy | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thank you everyone for your suggestions! There are some great useable tings here. My printer is going to stay busy for a while, and I may pick up a few of the books. Thanks for all the suggestions... and please pray fro this woman and her husband who are studying this. I think God is calling their hearts. -tanya- | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 129 Registered: 2-2006 |
It was in Vine's Greek/English Expository Dictionary where I found the word 'rest' as 'Sabbotismos', in Hebrews 4:9 as 'Perpetual Rest'. This is a verse which SDA's prove that the NT supports Sabbath-keeping; but reading the entire chapter in context,it does not. It speaks to our daily, perpetual rest in Christ because of his finished work; which Hebrews speaks of, as well. It was finished, once for all. (which refutes the Sanctuary/IJ doctrine) We rest in his finshed work for us, so we can go do loving, good works for others in his name, in his strength. Desmond Ford's Roman's series on tape helped me understand that. I am sure they are still available, but I don't know a link to give you. God bless you and your friend. Cathy | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2005 |
Even the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary understands this point. We find this explanation for Hebrews 4:9 on page 423: Certainly, in writing to Jews, the author of Hebrews would not consider it necessary to prove to them that Sabbathkeeping "remaineth." If the conclusion of the extended argument beginning with ch. 3:7 is that Sabbathkeeping remains for the people of God, it would seem that the writer of Hebrews is guilty of a non sequitur, for the conclusion does not follow logically from the argument. There would have been no point in so labored an effort to persuade the Jews to do what they were already doing -- observing the seventh- day Sabbath.... What relationship a protracted argument designed to prove that Sabbath observance remains an obligation to the Christian church might have to the declared theme of chs. 3 and 4 -- the ministry of Christ as our great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary -- is obscure indeed. (copied from http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/sabbath/hebrews4.9.htm ) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1569 Registered: 3-2005 |
For those who liked the Reisinger web site, there is a most fascinating letter written by Reisinger to RC Sproul that I posted on a different thread. But this is a great example of how to reason with an Old Covenant or Covenant theology type who insists on Sunday Sabbatarianism and tithing. I have the greatest respect for Sproul, but I think he just doesn't see the New Covenant properly. Reisinger reasons with him very well in this open letter www.soundofgrace.com/jgr/index074.htm Stan | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2005  |
I would like to obtain a copy of Greg Taylor's book on the New Covenant. Does anyone know the exact price? Is it ordered through Life Assurance Ministries? Thanks, jess | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3814 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes it is, Jess--www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.org I'm not actually sure of the priceósomewhere between $10 and $15? It's listed online. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2005  |
I'm currently reading Taylor's book and I agree it's easy to understand. The overall tone is very non-judgemental and yet points out the inconsistencies between Adventist doctrine and the Bible. I'm also listening to the cassette tapes by Sam Pestes, "The Stonecutter's Bride.". These are delightfully entertaining, while being very instructive in New Covenant Theology. I'm immersing myself in all these wonderful resources, including "Sabbath in Christ" by Ratzlaff and "Adventism Renounced" by Canright. I feel like I'm making up for lost time. Diana's right. He is awesome! | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 226 Registered: 6-2005 |
I have a couple copies of Greg's book available to anyone who wants one from the Atlanta area. I would be happy to deliver. I would also be happy to mail one, if someone would like a copy--no charge, they were given to me. Lori 4excape@bellsouth.net | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2004 |
Lori, I'd be very interested in one of his books... I am not in Atlanta, however. I am in WA state. Perhaps i could pay shipping, if you are still wlling to part with a copy? -tanya- | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 315 Registered: 5-2004 |
I made copies of many of the articles suggested here, and gave copies to the woman who had shown interest. She thanked me and wondered if she could keep them indefinitely, or if I needed them back. I said she could have them, and she said "good, it'll take us a while to go through them." So I'l just pray that God can use the info however He sees fit. -tanya- |
