| Author | Message | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 |
just a quick (and probably easy question) for those raised sda. why the big emphasis on nature (hiking, camping, nature books, etc)? i have always loved those things as well (it was one of the things that drew my husband and i together), but it seems in my husband's family that they are almost "required" of them (when i look back, they are the only kind of books,other than religious,that were given to my husband by his mom or dad).am i wrong? and is the health emphasis (no caffeine, meats, etc.) required as something that brings you closer to Christ? or separates you if you partake in the stuff? | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2005  |
Hi Nicole, My quick answer about nature would be that it is tied to the sabbath issue. What to do on Saturday with the family to "keep" the sabbath properly always seemed to involve nature. So my guess is that is the main reason for the emphasis on nature. As for diet - it comes from EGW books - tons of admonitions about diet. And the idea that if you take care of your body - you'll be better off spiritually - because after all, your body is the temple of God.  That's my quick answer. Others may have a different take on it. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3892 Registered: 12-2003  |
Absolutely, Lindaóand even further, Ellen White called nature "God's second book", stating that we learn about God in nature. Camping and outdoor "natural" activities always had an overtone of spiritual "appropriateness" about them. As for the meat issueóanother "Ellenism". The issue was keeping the mind alert and the body healthy so we could actually hear the Holy Spirit (as if He depends upon our physical heatlh to be able to communicate to us). There was also an unspoken but distinct "feeling" that the dietary restrcitons were part of our "separateness" from "apostate Protestantism" and from Catholic "Babylon". Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 689 Registered: 4-2000  |
Literature evangelists selling SDA health publications will often tell their prospects that "It's hard to be a Christian with a sour stomach." Actually, I presume it's hard to be an atheist or a Hindu with a sour stomach too. Their so-called "health message" creates an entering wedge for doctrinal books and studies. Their "health message" breaks down barriers to a very strange dogma. Sadly, their "health message" becomes a major contention in judging each other. The Adventist trek to perfection includes countless Ellenisms on health. One of my unique tasks of being a publishing leader was to accompany and train nurses, who were part-time colporteurs, in visiting prospective mothers-to-be. We would sell a unit of literature to expectant mothers (with a payment plan to be completed before the delivery date). The female nurse (often a pastor's wife) would encourage the expectant mother to ask questions about her pregnancy. We received lead cards from obstetric offices advertising the DEAR MOTHER-TO-BE program. Indeed, we had no shame in the number of ways we could empty wallets and deceive the public. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1027 Registered: 7-2004 |
Another reason for the stress on nature, knowing which plants are adible and which are not and so forth, is so that you will be prepared to care for yourself and your family during the time of trouble. If you know how to build shelters and find food in the wild places, you will be protected from the minions of antichrist looking to lop off your head. It all seems to boil down to some sort of paranoia or another. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1615 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dennis, We are in agreement again about something! (smiley) The "health message" is one of the biggest reasons historical SDA is false. Ellen even added to the three angels message of Revelation by saying the Health message was the right arm of the gospel--that is the false gospel. Stan | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2006  |
Just thought I'd weigh in here..... The health message is one of the few issues that I respect and have never disagreed with the Adventists on. In fact, it is also the one thing that I really miss by being in a different denomination. I'm referring here to teaching and providing sound health information, not rigid decrees about "clean" or "unclean." I agree that Adventists can be very legalistic and judgemental toward each other (and outsiders) regarding their health teachings. That, I think is where the mistake is made--just as with so many other issues--demanding slavish conformity to an endless list of seemingly non-sensical rules and regulations, rather than presenting sound medical as well as spiritual advice to teach us how to respect our creator as well as ourselves. I've always felt it rather sad that no other denomination seems to seriously address health concerns, considering that the Bible does teach us that our bodies are the temple of the Lord. I would think that might lead us to consider respect and care for our health to be important. I know that in the early history of the denomination that I am now involved in, health concerns were a part of their practice, including a vegetarian restaurant at the denomination headquarters (not that I'm saying that vegetarianism is necessary to good health--but it is one viable option). Perhaps it was merely the times, as my denomination also was developing around the time that SDAism was getting started. I know that there was a general "health craze" throughout the country during those years that many people became interested in. It was not just an Adventist thing. I do miss it though. I wish there was something similar offered by my church, and I am glad that I grew up learning a little more about health practices than perhaps the average person on the street. Luckily, my mother was a non-Adventist, so she was the voice of reason on many things that could have been presented to me in a more fanatical fashion, but thankfully were somewhat diluted by her non-Adventist viewpoint. Anyway, that's my two cents worth. But hey, what do I know?--I actually LIKE all those "phoney-balonies"! I still eat some of them to this day. That is, when I'm not eating my ham sandwiches!! I certainly don't think it matters to God what we eat, but I do think God would like us to enjoy good health. Joyfully, Joyce | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2006 |
was there something to the year 2000 and sda. the reason i am asking is because my husband's mom and her spouse bought this high-tech, expensive camping stove along with some other things for y2k. thought it was just part of the craze that was going on with some people at the time, but come to think of it, a lot of his relatives did too. and joyce, i can understand missing the health message in sda religion. i can see why it makes the religion (along with the emphasis on the outdoors) very appealing to others who are looking for a religion to join and also have those interests. i thought sda-ism was just a very conservative protestant/evangelical religion with a strong health message, although i was very uncomfortable around them from the very beginning for some reason. then i started to read more and ask some questions...i feel my husband misses those things about his upbringing and still somehow ties them to his relationship with God and possibly his salvation. he has never said that, just a gut feeling. these are questions i've always had, and i appreciate all of your honest input. it has been very helpful. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3896 Registered: 12-2003 |
Nicole, the Y2K "thing" with Adventists was just part of the general paranoia, but it was accentuated among some of the more conservative Adventists. Our conservative Adventist family moved to Wiemar, the self-supporting health conditioning center at that time. They felt safer away from the large cities and liked being nestled half-hidden in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Your husband doubtless does have certain emotional and fear-based ties to the nature and food traditions of Adventism. They are taught as part of the salvation package and being fit for God. Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2005 |
Belvalew, your post cracked me up!! That's so true about the edible plants classes! They were offered in my Pathfinder group for a Pathfinder honor, it was also offered at the SDA summer camp I went to, and even at Loma Linda University I once saw a flyer for a class on edible plants. I ALMOST took the edible plants class (because I really thought this was a skill I needed to learn), but just never got around to doing it. Actually, my whole Adventist life, I was offered multiple opportunities to prepare for "the time of trouble". In highschool, I took a wilderness class so I could learn survival skills, just in case I needed them. You know, when I really think about my life as an Adventist, so much of it revolved around the "end of time". Not just the preparation for learning survival skills and which plants were safe to eat, but also preparing myself. My life as an Adventist was focused on preparing for my life as a persecuted Adventist. I had to build my character through perfect obedience and I had to follow the guidelines of proper health so that my mind and body would be able to withstand the pressures of the end of time. Even memorizing scripture was motivated by end time events. As an Adventist, I knew there would come a time when I would have to rely on the promises of God through memorized scripture when hiding in the caves. I can't help but shake my head at the absurdity of it all. A few months ago, I was telling someone about my previous end of time beliefs. I couldn't get through the description of it without laughing. Even though I had already begun processing out of Adventism, it didn't seem so wierd to me until I actually said it out loud. That was the first time I actually realized how paranoid, and conspiracy-theory-like it was. It's so interesting to me how things used to make so much sense, and now I say to myself, "What was I thinking?!" I praise God for His constant revelation of truth through His Spirit! And I'm thankful I don't have to ever find out what ferns taste like!! Grace | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2005  |
Colleen, Your comment about the focus on body and mind being kept alert to better hear the voice of the Holy Spirit is true. HOWEVER, I'm sure you recall the response the church gave to anyone saying the Holy Spirit was not impressing them to not wear jewelry, or telling them it was alright to eat a hamburger or do certain "questionable" activities on the Sabbath - - was a warning: Beware of listening to your "heart" (i.e., Holy Spirit???) because if it is different from what the church teaches then you know it is "another spirit" suggesting these things. It's best not to focus on "listening to the Holy Spirit" but stick to what the church tells you; or Egg White. I've heard that scores of times! It totally ignored Christ's admonishion in Jn 14:26. Jess | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 210 Registered: 4-2005 |
As to the restrictions on coffee, tea, and of course we could get into the Bible's clear message that all things are clean and what we take in by the mouth does not contaminate.....but I keep asking: Where did tea leaves and coffee beans come from anyway? Did science make them? Why would God create such things which are now shown by modern medical studies, to be very healthy in moderation, and then say, "Don't drink that!" ??? Makes me shake my head and smile at how rediculous unbalanced fundamentalism can be! ESPECIALLY when backed up by writings - said to be from God - whose author ate unclean foods, wore jewelry, etc. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 490 Registered: 7-2004  |
Nothing wrong with promoting good health. Considering physical health a part of the "gospel message" is a problem. And tying this concept to the Biblical teaching that our body is a temple of God seriously takes this verse out of context. Let's look at that verse and the one before it. A passage about sexual sins is turned into a teaching about diet. Now we know that Ellen thought that these two things were closely related--the underlying reason for all of her dietary reform was to minimze "animal passions"--but that doesn't allow us to take this verse and apply it however we would like. Paul says that teaching people to abstain from foods that God has blessed is teaching a doctrine of demons. The kingdom of heaven isn't about food and drink, and I am convinced that those who focus so much on this are distracting others from the true kingdom. The true Gospel is about eternal life not a longer earthly life. Learning about and engaging in healthy behaviors is a good thing, but it isn't a Spiritual or salvation one. (Message edited by ric_b on May 05, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3902 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great point, Rick. And Jess, I do remember hearing exactly the argument you mention! You might be hearing "the wrong spirit"... Praise God that Jesus said He would never trick us; He will always give the Holy Spirit to those who are truly seeking Him. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2000 |
THE SECRETS OF SEITAN What is seitan? Seitan (pronounced "say-tahn") is a low-fat, high protein, firm-textured food derived from wheat gluten. Seitan is the Japanese version (also known as "fu"); it is called Kofu in China and "wheat meat" and "gluten" here in the United States. Interestingly, it is believed by some that gluten is a "Buddha food," developed by vegetarian Buddhist monks as a meat substitute many centuries ago. So, next time your host or hostess, serves you phoney baloney or choplets, you may be more correct to just say, "Please pass the Buddha meat." After all this fun-filled humor, you may be surprised to learn that Sylvia and I consider "Buddha food" very tasty (grin). Being a very versatile food, it blends well with other protein-rich goodies like chicken, salmon, or tuna. Bon appetite! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hello everyone, I certainly wasn't meaning to connect "sexual sin" or salvation with diet. I was just saying that healthy living and respecting ourselves seems like a good practice, and it's too bad that more churches don't talk a bit about such things once in a while. And I really wasn't intending to quote any verses in particular. I was just stating that we are "temples of the Lord" and as such, it made sense to me to respect that. Sorry if I implied anything more. I guess I tend to forget that not everyone on this forum is as non-literal as I am when it comes to the Bible. I don't mean for everything I say to be taken as a "command" just because I might refer to a Biblical idea. Sorry, Joyce | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1378 Registered: 7-2003 |
This whole conversation just bring back warm memories of many volatile arguments on why the passaage on the temple of God was in relation to sexual sin and not diet. And B is absolutely convinced I listen to the "wrong spirit". He didn't give a rip about the sexual sin portion, but it was an absolute about diet. And he carried the edible plants book in his car. It was in my house even for a while. Of course, I really made him mad when I referred to it as his "time of trouble training book". Sometimes I just can't help myself. During yesterday's tyraids, I actually called EGW "egg white". It just slipped out...and he promptly left. I have such a smooth way of influencing my "friends". ha! If life weren't so complex otherwise, I'd probably be worried about it, instead, I'm just enjoying the perspective of how absolutely ridiculous it is to worry about some of the food arguments we've had through the years. I'm thankful for what God provides and sorry some seem to waste so much time now to gain a few years (allegedly) in the back side. Not worth it! Don't worry...be happy. Life's too short. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3905 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melissa, I'm grinning. I especially like your satisfying, alliterative "time of trouble training book"! That's a great title! Colleen |
