| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 486 Registered: 7-2004  |
Stan, I'm with you on this one. Although, Melissa, I might still take some stabs at Rick Warren. But note that I haven't called Rick Warren a non-Christian or satanic cult leader. It appears to me that some of us are willing to quickly judge some SDA pastors who are preaching the message of unmeritted grace. I have done this at times in the past and over the past months have really had to examine my own behavior and motives in that regard. Do I know if God has called every grace-oriented pastor out of the SDA church? Do I know that God isn't using these pastors to reach the very people bound in chains of legalism that I would also like to reach? Do I know the heart and prayers of each of these pastors? I took years to process fully out of SDAism. Why should I expect that anyone else should be on the same or faster time frame than I was? Who is in control each step of the way? What is the overwhelming need to label SDAism a "cult"? Does it make our experiences less valid somehow if they aren't called a cult? Does it make their doctrine less troublesome? Their gospel and their prophet less false? Sometimes it seems that we apply different standards to anything SDA than we do to the rest of Christianity. If someone is using prooftexts verses out of context to manipulate people to follow their teaching we should call them on it equally whether SDA or not. If a group has questionable theology of the Trinity, or has added works-based salvation, we should be equally concerned whether they are SDA or the author of a current best selling Christian book. SDAism is deceptive. There is no one in a better position to expose those deceptions than those of us who have lived it. But when we apply double standards, when we present these in ways that seem to exaggerate the issues, when our tone and rhetoric overflows with hostility, how much credibility do we have? Not just with SDAs, but with those seeking to learn more about SDAism? My thoughts are scattered all over this evening, but I want to close by asking whether we are truly being supportive of those in the midst of a decision about SDAism, in the process of transitioning, or struggling with issues about their departure? Is the current rhetoric chasing away posters who need a place like this the most? | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 487 Registered: 7-2004 |
Do we really believe and practice Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; If we want to claim this passage for our own freedom, don't we have to apply the passage to those who observe a day as well? | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 191 Registered: 7-2005  |
I'm one who is currently struggling with issues about my departure. My entire being recoils from leaving adventist church, friends, and all my identity as an adventist. So, if there is some reason to remain in the SDA church and be a christian, I'll remain. If I can be an evangelical adventist, I want to be and remain in SDA. If I can keep both my identity as christian and remain an adventist, I will keep both. I want to be a channel of the gospel of grace for my adventists friends, why should I leave the church? After all, there are many evangelical pastors who are trying to change the SDA church from within. I believe that I can do the same. And if we encourage many members to stay in the church for improvement, one day, perhaps, the SDA church will embrace New Covenant, will renounce IJ, and Ellen White. This dialogue is taking place in my battle for leaving. It's like Sodomah, and Abraham pleading for her. If I'll found 10 men, it will be enough, to spare, and stay within the bounds of this church. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3890 Registered: 12-2003  |
I am completely at a loss. I feel as if I have been pushed into a corner I never wanted to be in. Am I DESIRING to label Adventism a cult? Frankly, no. Sometimes in the course of a discussion, however, it becomes necessary and instructive to mention the spiritual bond this church has on all of us who are and have been in it. Every time I mention "spirit" or "evil" or "cult" people get angry. Almost without exception, a few people quit posting. Others just get "mad"óone time a particularly angry person assaulted everyone he thought might have influence on us, including SDA churches in our area, by flooding their email boxes with inflammatory emails decrying Richard and me and this ministry. Only something with eternal stakesóonly something with a dark side that fears revelationówould react in this manner. Here's the reality: if Adventism really is not spiritually compromised, if it really does not have a spiritual claim upon its members, then we really have no reason for this ministry. If the Adventist church is really just a heterodox church that is slowly working on "getting its act together", then why are so many people leaving and suffering? If we really can stay and change it, none of us had any business leaving. I believe that most of us here experienced God calling us to leave. I also believe He has called us to this ministry so others don't have to suffer alone as so many have done in the past. If we cannot speak the truth about the reality of the evil that shapes the church, then we cannot actually minister healing to people who are confused by what they are experiencing. When I finally saw what I was dealing with in Adventism, it was shockingóand also a great relief. I finally understood what was wrong and why I was so conflicted. I finally could pray about what was really going on. I finally knew what God was asking me to acknowledge and surrender to Him. Frankly, calling Adventism a cult and pointing out the spiritual battle involved is supportive to those leaving. Unless we can identify the source of the intense grief, loss, shunning, and suffocating pain, we are walking in denial without allowing the Holy Spirit to shine the light of healing truth on the darkness of our heritage. My experience has been that even the most gentle mention of a "spirit of Adventism" or of the church being a "cult" results in defensive outcries that far outweigh the original comments. If Adventism is merely heterodox, we don't need to be here. If it is truly a spiritual deception, we must call it what it is. Of course we must grant people who worship on Saturday the same freedom we grant ourselves for our freedom. That freedom is not the issue. I know from experienceónot theoreticallyóthe spiritual claim the Sabbath has on anyone who has believed the day is related to salvation. They have to risk giving it to Jesus before they can hope to worship on that day without spiritual strings attached. I do not believe any of these decisions can be forced or rushed. God leads each person in His own time. But we MUST NOT negate the seriousness of the spiritual hold of this church on its members. A cult cannot be reformed. I am by nature a "smooth-the-waters" type of person. But I cannot back down from the truth just because it is unpopular. I pray continually for God to be present here and to minister to us all. Colleen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 278 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jackob: None of us can say whether or not you can remain Adventist and Grace-oriented for sure. I know I could not live with the choice between constant pseudo-deceptions (i.e. hiding much of what I knew to be True) and sharing the Truth because that would alienate me from the very people who called me 'friend'. If God can use you inside Adventism, though, He will make it clear to you. I will be praying intensely for His will to be made clearly manifest to you. Colleen: I believe that you hit the nail on the head. You said this: "We MUST NOT negate the seriousness of the spiritual hold of this church on it's members. A cult cannot be reformed." This past week, our friends in Ohio called to notify us of a Latvian baby that desperately needs adopting. He is currently living in a home with 3 families plus all those family's children and no one has the money to feed another mouth. My husband and I quickly agreed to jump into the process of adopting and were sincerely ready to take on whatever challenges would face us. I called the Adventist organization who has the baby and had a wonderful conversation. It was looking positive indeed. I was thrilled. Then she asked if we were Adventist. I said 'no' but we are definitely Christians and love our Lord Jesus very much. She said, 'then there is no need to go further.' I felt like I'd been punched in the gut? Here, facing me square in the face, ONCE AGAIN, is the reality of the hold of this church on it's people. To seriously consider that a child would be better off half-starving than with non-Adventist parents is at the very least cult-ish. What other word is there? That has nothing to do directly with a false Gospel quite frankly. Then to top it off, our very dear friends who called us with this consideration, brushed it off as if it was totally normal for someone to only adopt to an Adventist. This IS NOT normal behavior for a Christian. I am convinced that what holds our friends, and the organization I spoke with, captive is fear. Fear that if they do not keep the Sabbath, they will go to hell...period. That is not only a false Gospel, but it is, by our society's definition, a cult. I would also say that this is a very difficult post for me to write. My natural desire is to smooth the waters...say something 'funny' or change the subject with a diverting question. But here's the thing. Whether you want to label Adventism as a cult or not is really irrelevant. If you believe they are teaching a false Gospel, and I doubt many would disagree, then our calling is the same. I am not, as I suspect the others here who would also call SDA a cult, suggesting that the Lord cannot work within Adventism. Obviously He does. He called us out...thank You Jesus! But, the reality is that the organization--please hear me--the organization itself is cultic in nature. It has a grip on it's people like any other cult. Whether the way that people within the organization get to that point is the same as JW, CS or LDS, is irrelevant. The mind control is the same. Can any of us here say...'hey' it was walk in the park to leave Adventism? I haven't lost a single friend, colleague or family member. I am just as much a part of the 'group' as before? No one has suggested that I've lost my salvation? For me, anyway, the answer is a resounding 'no'. This journey hasn't been just a little bit difficult. My husband and I haven't just experienced a little ostracizing, we have experienced outright persecution of a psychological nature. AND WE WERE PART OF WHAT WE'D CALL A GRACE-ORIENTED SDA CHURCH. We had no idea the hostility we would face by those people who touted GRACE ALONE! Of course there are those within that have remained our friends. And we haven't even been treated as badly as many others who have left. But the assumptions that are made about us, constantly astound me. Truly it is a work of the Lord that we do not become angry and bitter. Again, please hear me--I am not saying these things out of anger or bitterness, but simply observing the evidence....no strike that...I have LIVED the evidence. Frankly, WHO CARES if Walter Martin or anyone else calls it a cult! (Sorry...I know that's strong) We KNOW the serious nature of the problems in Adventism. We have a calling to call it what it is. Call it a false gospel, call it a cult, it really doesn't matter in the end. We MUST stay united in our purpose to free those within Adventism who are held in bondage. I am pleading with this group to not let this divide us! Remember Jesus' prime concern is unity of Believers. Let's stay that way, OK? please?? OK--I guess I'll end it there and pray that I am still a friend here. As I said, this is very difficult to post... Thankful, Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 279 Registered: 3-2005 |
editing note: Jesus' prime concern for Believers is unity!  Patria | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 488 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone back down on pointing out the deceptive nature of SDAism. We should use our experience and knowledge of the SDA church to do that every opportunity that we can. Nor am I suggesting that people who understand the depth and severity of the errors should stay as a way of reaching others. It is easy to use excuses like that to avoid the backlash that will come with leaving. But we must be aware as well that God calls His followers as He sees fit. I am perfectly willing to believe that God can choose to be using an SDA pastor right where he is right now. Do some pastors who understand the Gospel stay for wrong reasons, probably. But I find the blanket judgments against every SDA pastor unwarranted. Rather than obsess with the word "cult", why not specifically discuss the ways in which SDAism creates a bondage for its members. Why do people look for excuses to stay when they know the serious doctrinal problems? Regardless of the label applied, there are real issues in this bondage. Consider for instance the isolated community that rises up in some SDA settings. Work for an SDA organization, send your kids to an SDA school, attend an SDA church, sometimes even living in the same sub-divisions. This isolates members from outside influences. And makes leaving that much harder because it impacts every aspect of a person's life. There are real issues. These issues should not be downplayed one bit. But pointing out these issues does not need to result in casting judgment on individual people. There are serious issues. Those of us who have lived it are in a better position than anyone else to point those out. But when we apply a different standard to SDAism than we apply to other churches we lose our credibility in pointing those out. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 372 Registered: 2-2001 |
Colleen, This site is doing great work for Jesus. These open discussions are what seekers need to see. That you can disagree on points, but still be part of the whole. Satan only attacks what threatens him. V | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 447 Registered: 7-2004  |
It didn't take convincing me the SDA church is a cult to get me to leave it. It took the Holy Spirit revealing truth to me, and seeing the facts that the SDA church has no intention of renouncing its beginnings. It took realizing EGW is a false prophet, and how can any true Christian remain in a church founded on the teachings of a false prophet. When a church is founded on teachings of a false prophet instead of on Jesus alone, of course it can't be reformed. While I do see both sides to the issue and can understand why many formers wish to label the SDA church as a cult (particularly those who receive the most persecutory treatment for leaving), it seems too inflammatory and unproductive to call it a "Satanic cult." Calling it a "spiritual deception," a "false gospel" or illustrating that EGW is a false prophet are accurate descriptors that are far less debatable or emotion-laden. Hopefully, no one is suggesting that reluctance of former SDA's to use inflammatory language against the SDA church, indicates SDAism still has a hold on them. Patriar, I am sorry for your rejection as potential adoptive parents. How frustrating that it is over religious discrimination against you! Of course you're a friend here (as I would consider all the posters), and your posts are an encouragement. (Message edited by Raven on May 04, 2006) | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2004 |
By the way, I didn't mean to imply that people who remain in the SDA church can't be true Christians. As has been stated before, there is a processing time which often takes literally years. Would anyone say, for example, that Greg Taylor wasn't a true Christian until the moment he decided to leave the SDA church? All I am saying is that in my mind, I came to the point where it was clear to me that a true Christian doesn't belong in a church founded on a false prophet. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 373 Registered: 2-2001 |
Raven, For me it came to the point of frustration. To stay somewhere where you are continually preached things that do not line up with God's work, made my soul restless. I thirsted for the Word of God only, and I could not find that in the SDA orginization. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 280 Registered: 3-2005 |
Raven and Rick: Thanks! Yes, I agree. It didn't take knowing Adventism was a cult for me to leave it. In fact, I didn't read Dale's book for quite some time because of the word 'cultic' on the book cover. So I definitely see your points. It is counterproductive to suggest to a current Adventist that they are involved in a cult (though I honestly believe they are). What I'm suggesting is that those of us on the outside just need to be aware of the nature of the mind control that is happening there. You guys are absolutely right! The most important thing is that we are united in the need to present the True Gospel. I think it just helps to be fully aware of what we're dealing with (or more specifically what God is dealing with). In Him, Patria | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 477 Registered: 5-2002 |
The debate over whether or not the dreaded "C" word applies to the Seventh-day Adventist church reminds me of how the man born blind answered the Pharisees' question of whether or not Jesus was a sinner. He said, "Whether He be a sinner or not, I know not. One thing I know, whereas I was blind, now I see." John 9:25 Whether Seventh-day Adventism be a cult or not, I know not. One thing I know, whereas I was in bondage, now I am free! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1373 Registered: 7-2003 |
I understand the point that it didn't need to be called a cult to get you out, but if it is called a cult, would it keep people from being sucked in? That's more where I use the label, not for those inside, but for those who are outside and may or may not encounter a temptation to join them. Many on the outside have such a benign view of it, it would be "no big deal" for someone to join them. They don't understand the negatives which are significant. We have a lazy culture that just doesn't study things as good as it should perhaps. Look at all the responses Cw's daughter got when she asked people, even other pastors. I got the same exact thing before i started dating B. But if someone would have said they're a cult, even if they didn't understand why, perhaps it would have been enough of a red flag. To me, if you're not teaching the gospel (and the religion's position is certainly a grace + works, regardless of various individual teachers), it's a false gospel. Whether it's one step over the line or one mile over the line, it's over the line. So how far over it is is almost a moot point to me. But I'd also sure like to see others avoid my history. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 192 Registered: 7-2005 |
I had written in a rush with an eye on the watch, preparing to live in a hurry to my job. What I forget to say is that if I believe that SDA is not a cult, I will stay in it. But I believe that it is, and this settles my decision to leave. Sorry Patria, I had given a false impression, I agree completely with Collen and you. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2005 |
Let's find a a common point: for all of us labeling SDA as a cult is very important. It's very important for those who call SDA a cult, and also for those who disagree. From what I read here on FAF, this is not a subject that will die naturally, or something which can be evaded in our interaction here. Trying to be silent on this topic seems to be an impossibility. I will try to analyze the situation from the view of someone who at the beginning of the dialogue believed that SDA church is in a better condition that LDS or JW. This was and is the basic motive for not labeling SDA church a cult, beacuse if someone believe that SDA is in a better condition than JW, using the label cult will do a great injustice to the truth of the situation. I asked myself the following question: is SDA a spiritually dead church, or is a spiritually alive church? Before starting to answer, let's repeat the question: Is SDA spiritually alive or dead? The answer is of paramount importance: in a dead corpse there is nothing alive. but if someone has a fatal sickness, which affects almost entirely his body, he still lives, because his vital organs are functioning. Even with great pains, but the vital organs are still functioning. If not, he will be dead. Now, returning to the problem of church. being dead or alive is a huge difference. A cult is a dead church, nothing could be worse than a cult like nothing could be worse than a dead body. But, if we say that SDA is better than a cult, this emans that SDA church is alive, her vital organs still function, she still has live in her, and can function. From what I saw here, the difference is between those who believe that the church is sick, of course, with many flaws, spiritual deception, but with some spiritual life in it, and those who believe that there is no spiritual life in the church, she is dead. Now, think again: if you say that SDA is spiritually alive, this means that the vital organs are still functioning. Of course, not like in a normal situation, with great pains, with many heartaches or fallings, but the church is still alive. But what is vital is still good, and this is a huge difference, comparing with a dead body. This means that this church still can give and impart spiritual life. And even if it will never be a healthy church, it's not like JW or LDS. There is hope for SDA church. Personally I believe that there is no hope for the SDA church, it's spiritually dead, bankrupt, it's in the worst condition possible. This is why I believe that using the word cult is appropiate. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3891 Registered: 12-2003 |
Rick, I agree that we cannot judge current Adventist pastors. We can evaluate what we actually hear them say, and we can also know what the constraints are that bind them in their public messages. Again, Greg Taylor is a prime example of an Adventist pastor whom God was using and calling for years before He finally led him all the way out. What I object to is using the example of Adventist pastors preaching "the gospel" to support the notion that Adventism isn't really evil at the core. Of course God is using many Adventist pastors, and He is also calling many out of Adventism on His own timetable. But the fact that God is working through Adventist pastors is not proof of anything concerning the nature of the church. Further, the fact that God is using them doesn't change the fact that their "gospel" must of necessity be stated carefully and subtlely and never fully. The fact that Greg Taylor found himself increasingly unable to "preach" the Sabbath as an Adventist does not mean that simultaneously he was able to preach its fulfillment in Jesus. He was not able to preach it, but he was not able to preach the new covenant reality, either. This is what I mean when I say Adventist pastors are limited and even hamstrung in their freedom to really preach the gospel. I am NOT judging them. I KNOW God is calling them and is actively using many to awaken people to the fact that typical Adventism is wanting. But at the same time, they are not able to lead people out of the Galatian heresy into freedom and still keep their jobs. I do not believe in using the "C" word when speaking to Adventists. It's totally unproductive and inflammatory. But on this forum I am primarily speaking to those who are processing their pain and fear. I believe it is a cult, and knowing that fact helps explain a great many experiences we have as we question and leave. And if Adventists read this forum, that really is their choice. I personally know true-blue Adventists who refuse to look here. Those who do read are asking at least some kinds of questions of their ownóeven if those questions are, at first, mere curiosity. And since the intended audience is former and questioning Adventists, what I say is shaped for them. Rick, I so admire the active work you and Raven are doing in your local Bible study and outreach. God has gifted you and called you to that work. I thank Him for blessing you and giving you the stamina and insight to do what you're doing. My disagreement with you on this issue in no way lessens my support of you and my gratitude to God for what He is doing through you. Further, I agree with you that the talk I do here would never be appropriate in an Adventist setting. But here--I have to say these things, and I have to say again that because Adventism is what it is, the most sincere Adventist preachers are still muzzled. And some Adventist preachers are eager to appear evangelical and only pretend to preach the gospel. The pastors, like the lay members, are "all over the board" theologically and spiritually. Patria, I am so sorry for you and your husband. And I am sorry that child didn't get to have the two of you as parents! Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3894 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jackob, I just saw your last post. What a vivid metaphor you used. Thank you for sharing the way you thought about this subject. It is helpful to me. Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1614 Registered: 3-2005 |
Greetings all from the Colorado River where it is 100 degrees plus and too hot to be out at the pool, so I couldn't resist coming back! This has truly presented an interesting and challenging discussion. This whole thing, as some of you might know from my upbringing, is very difficult for me. I have been processing a lot of different emotions. I can't believe I have even modified slightly with my position, since I was brought up on the cultic, and not evangelical side of Adventism. Does it help in this discussion to do what I believe Walter Martin would do if he were here today and the evaluation I saw John MacArthur make on the link I posted above? At least MacArthur rightly recognizes that there is a section of Adventism which rightly belongs labeled with the cults. I wonder if anyone caught one of my posts above where I acknowledged that Historic Adventism represented by the hard core folks on Revival Sermons should be labeled as a cult. Either cult or false gospel doesn't matter Biblically speaking. Historic Adventism preaches a different gospel that Paul speaks about so clearly in Galatians 1:8,9. Is there any stronger word than ANATHEMA in the Greek? I am told by scholars there is not. So why not acknowledge this clearly false group of SDAs, that a scholar no less than MacArthur would recognize? I was reading MacArthur last night on the Catholic-Evangelical controversy, and he said that any group that denies Justification by faith alone deserves Paul's label in Galatians 1. But, now, what do we do with the significant branch of Adventism which at least call themselves SDAs and Evangelical?--an oxymoron, I would admit. But, as Rick said, the reality is there. Since I went to an SDA church in Riverside for an extended period of time and heard Smuts Van Rooyen preach, I will attest for absolutely certainty that he was not preaching a false gospel. Does Des Ford, still an SDA preach a false gospel? These are the very people who's teaching and preaching brought my Dad and I out of Adventism. Does anyone here really want to blanketly anathematize Ford and VanRooyen? By referring to Adventism as a Satanic Cult, you by definition say these people who are leading so many to the real gospel of Christ are anathema by the Biblical definition in Gal. 1:8,9. There are many other true SDAs who could be mentioned. This is why, folks, that John MacArthur, and the leading evangelical pastors that we look up to are so very cautious. It is a very serious thing to broadbrush a group where in so many instances, it can be shown that the Holy Spirit is working. This is why Martin, Ken Samples, MacArthur, et al are so careful. Yes, many stories that I read here on this web site are from the section of Adventism, which is very much like the JW's or LDS. And, Patria, I know that even in churches who claim to be evangelical, you will find some sorry examples. I have even come to see some abusive churches in other areas of "evangelicalism" which might be called cults. I will say, that many other churches have no idea of the heart of the gospel message and that is Justification by Faith alone. We need to evangelize RCC, SDAs, Fundamentalists and anyone else who denies the true gospel. At least Des Ford and Van Rooyen know the Reformation gospel, which people like Rick Warren (oops! there I go again) are extremely fuzzy on, and he even denies the Reformation was important. But I , along with Rick have never called Warren a false teacher. We have to be extremely careful about our labels and be sure they are accurate. Oh well, does this clarification make it better or worse? (smiley) I think I will try to go run and hide back to the pool (smiley) Stan PS My advice to you Jackob is to run, not walk out of the SDA church based on what I have read of your situation. You are definitely in cultic Adventism where you are! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 488 Registered: 1-2003  |
<tired smile> I'm starting one of those posts which as you start your not sure if you will even push the "post message" key or not. I am saddened when I see the "struggle" over words and labels. Our words should continually point others to Christ Jesus and no one else. I will speak only for myself when I say that the words and attitudes of some here could very easily make me leave and miss out on the fellowship of others I have enjoyed. I hope that each of us, myself formost amoung all, will examine our motives in all that we say. Down deep does it make us feel special to know that "they" are all members of a cult whereas I'm beyond that and have greater light. Telling someone they are members of a Satanic Cult does not open the doors of communication between you and those you say you want to reach. If in fact that is your reason for being here. I am much more drawn to a person who by their life demonstrates the indwelling spirit of Christ in all they do and in all they say. Chris's sister Cherry is one of those. She is just as convinced of the error in SDA doctrines as any of you posting here. BUT she comes in a spirit of love and compassion and literal tears of a hurting heart as she seeks to share what God has revealed to her through Scripture and the Holy Spirit. I can NOT in any way read the hearts of those on this discussion forum, but the words spoken (by some) do not convey that spirit when a person comes here to read and learn. Being right, even dead right, even righteously right does not release us from a carefull consideration of what we say and how we say it. If you want to be here to warn those who are not SDA from becoming SDAs then calling them a Satanic Cult may have a purpose (though I question even that) but if you want to reach those who have felt the pull of the Holy Spirit on their hearts and need support and love to work through it all, then I feel it is very counter productive. I've been very moved as some of you have shared how God has convicted you about the spirit of some of your posts. I know that those on both sides are honestly seeking Gods direction in their lives. My prayers are with each person here and ask His blessing on each of you. I know that personally I have felt both great support and also hurt at times on this forum. I have met some wonderful people who I value deeply as friends and hope that the bonds of friendship will only deepen in the future. I have chosen to not respond in most cases when I feel hurt because i realize that one of the purposes of this forum is to give people a place to safely express feelings etc. In the past week or two I left a post telling of a meeting at our church where we were going to be prayerfully examining the foundational truths of the SDA church. I asked for your prayers and support. NOT ONE response was given on line amid all the debate of Cult vs: non Cult. It made me wonder about the priorities we each have. Is labeling most important or is support of people searching and exploring God's Word for truth most important. I am fairly certain that my post fell through the cracks and was missed by many but it did make me very aware of how my attention toward other people, or lack of, can be both positive and negative. I doubt if what I'm writing will sway one side or the other but I needed to say what i needed to say. Let us all remember that the main thing is the main thing, . . . . He is risen! ! ! Quietly resting in the arms of my risen Lord and Savior, richard PS: none of what I've said is ment to belittle the opinions or beliefs of anyone here, in fact I hope that with the Holy Spirit preparing the way people might be open to God's truth as they see it here. rtruitt@mac.com |
