| Author | Message | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 370 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'm not trying to cause controversy. I just found some interesting reading I wanted to pass along. Is the Seventh-day Adventist church a cult? http://experts.about.com/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/cult-1.htm?zIr=5#r Here is a portion of a thought provoking article about sects called "THE PERSISTENCE OF SECTS by Bryan R. Wilson at All Souls College, Oxford. (This article is from 1993). Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church then no longer a sect? Is it a denomination? Not really. This judgement can be made, because strong and distinctive ideological constraints impede that development. The lifestyle of the movement is still distinctive, and the devices for social insulation - the seventh-day Sabbath and the dietary taboos (tobacco, alcohol, tea, and coffee) mark off believers from other people. These are conspicuous devices of boundary-maintenance, but there are also theological differences which make Adventists unacceptable to other denominations. The concept of Christ entering a heavenly sanctuary - an idea derived from Old Testament priesthood - and more especially of his conducting an investigative judgement, and acting to blot out the sins of true Christians, are concepts which radically depart from the beliefs of the Protestant fundamentalists who would otherwise be the natural associates of the Adventists. The sanctuary doctrine departs from the Protestant principle of justification by faith since sanctification and perfectionism are now added to justification as requirements for salvation. Thus, Adventists appear not to regard Christ's death on the cross as sufficient for salvation. They rely on the imparted righteousness of Christ through his spirit rather than on righteousness imputed through his sacrifice. The implication, with its adjunctive demands for obedience to Old Testament law, is that only true and faithful Adventist really have a prospect of salvation. All of this amounts to an ideological preservative - organizational characteristics notwithstanding - of Adventist sectarianism. So six million Adventists constitute a sect that would be, yet cannot be, a denomination. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3887 Registered: 12-2003  |
So interesting, Lynne. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1028 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow! That sort of boils it all down to one neat paragraph! | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2006  |
I've waited for a proper place to ask this question and this seems to be it. Does SDA have a teaching or common feeling about serving in the military? CW | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3895 Registered: 12-2003 |
Adventists are non-combatants. When Adventists are drafted during wars, they serve (in gneral) as medics. They consider bearing arms with the intent to kill the enemy to be violating the sixth commandment. Probably for similar reasons, Adventists almost never go into law enforcement. They would have to bear arms, and that would not be acceptable. Colleen | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2006 |
Unbelievable. I am a retired CHP officer with 37 plus years of service and a Viet Nam era Vet. How much more incompatible does my daughter and her SDA boyfriend get? I've drawn heat now for being a part of this forum but thank you for being there to honestly answer these questions. CW | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 494 Registered: 8-2004  |
SDAs are also discouraged from military service because of the complications of Sabbathkeeping. There are stories of SDAs who did join the military refusing to work on Saturday and being punished for it. | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2006 |
Great, I was also a drill instructor in the Army. Troops "refusing" was not an option. CW | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2508 Registered: 3-2004  |
When my son learned how to read well, he started reading about history and WW2. He fell in love with WW2 aircraft, especially the P51 Mustang. He asked me a number of times, why God gave him these interests, being an SDA. My answer was not SDA. It was, Talk to God about it. Well he talked to God about it and fulfilled his dream from the age of 12, to become an Air Force officer. Even though he is listed as being SDA, he does not believe their doctrine and does not attend the SD church. He has had no problem with being SDA and being in the military and carrying a gun. All the crew on the C130s carry a weapon of some kind. I am praying that he find a church for himself and family and eventually have his name taken off the church books. But that is between him and God. My son also taught me how to use a gun. My son tells me I am good shot. My son would not have liked to be a medic. I also have 4 nephews that are police officers. I am proud of my son and nephews. Diana | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 495 Registered: 8-2004 |
Rather than just take our word for it, here are some links to SDA resources on Military service that you can check out for yourself if interested. I start off with the Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries. An article in 'The Adventist Review' (which gives a fairly decent synopsis of the history Adventist positions on the Military): Between Patriotism and Pacifism From the point of view of: Adventist Peace Fellowship And for a study paper I found personally thought provoking early in my search for answers to inconsistancies between SDAism and the Bible click on this link and then choose Ron Lawson's article on SDA's and military service around the world. Blessings, Mary | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2006 |
Thanks Diana and Mary. And I will go to those sites. But for info, I have no problem "taking your word for it". It's more honest and informed than I get from my other sources. CW | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1228 Registered: 7-2003  |
Hey CW, As an ex-military man here's an article from the March 2005 issue of Christianity Today Magazine that will probably make your blood boil.
Chris | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2006 |
Thanks Chris. Yes, I have strong feelings about defending my country. All my brothers served and I'm named after two uncles that were fighting in WW2 when I was born. You folks have been having discussions on this forum long before I found it so you have probably covered this. But as I understand my Bible, God instructs us as individuals to not murder or otherwise take justice into our own hands. However, in speaking to governments he demands justice be served. Same applies to Armies or police. The common mistake about "thou shalt not kill" is in not making the effort to understanding which audience God is addressing. I'll bet SDA is happy that we did not have an all SDA military in the 1940's. And it obviously would not be a good idea for us to have an entire population of pacifists in this day and age. CW | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 492 Registered: 1-2003  |
<smile> I think this is one discussion I better not say much about, since I'm already in trouble enough here.  For the record I served a tour of duty in Nam as a medic and was under fire numerous times taking care of the wounded. I was stationed about 9 miles from the DMZ. Yes I was there as a CO. ducking, Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1229 Registered: 7-2003 |
CW, I agree with your assessment. In context, the word "rasah" in the Decalogue means "murder" not the more general "kill" used in the KJV. In this context it is the premeditated taking of innocent life. So the NASB rendering of "You shall not murder" is more accurate. "Rasah" cannot mean "kill" in general here because within the same Mosaic Law God clearly commanded the Israelites to put people to death for various crimes and infractions. In addition, God ordered the Israelites into war at various times. I also believe that God sets up governments to restain evil, maintain order, and bring justice. Most would agree that in the sinful world we live in, armed Police Officers are valuable and necessary members of society. Without their service society as a whole, individuals within that society, and justice in generanl would suffer. It is sometimes puzzling to me why some would agree that it is right and just for a police officer to use force to stop a murder, a rape, or a theft, but then argue that it is not acceptable to use force to stop such evil actions that are being perpetrated on a grander international scale. Rightly used, our police force protects us, retrains, evil, and serves justice domestically and rightly used, our military force protects us, restrains evil, and serves justice internationally. I am not suggesting that every war is just anymore than I am suggesting that every police action is just. I am just suggesting that there is a God ordained role for government and that part of that role includes the wielding of the sword and the punishment of evil.
Chris | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2006 |
Richard, I don't know how you have been in trouble here in the past but don't hesitate if you have something to say here please. You took more fire in Nam than I did because I wasn't there. I was careful to say that I am a Viet Nam ERA vet and I respect all who serve in any capacity. Not everyone has to carry an M16. I was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas for all of my 3 years except for Basic Training and was a DI there. Things had just started escalating when I was nearing discharge. Many of my buddies were ordered to Nam along with many of those I trained and the only reason I wasn't is because I was too short for a full tour. For the others "short" means short-timer, not stature. I certainly had the MOS for it-Mechanized Infantry-but I simply never got the orders and was not inclined to re-up. And thanks Chris for the confirmation. I agree that not all wars are just and sometimes it's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys. CW_ | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 494 Registered: 1-2003 |
<smile> I was short but not a "short-timer" when I went over. I do not remember with any fondness the heat and dirt and the rat that snuggled in against me one night. There are still things i do not share often. (I can still see the guy with both legs and one arm blown off. Reaching out to take his hand as he asked if he would be ok . . . He died 2 days later with some of my blood in him. He took more than 45 units of blood) I'm sure my parents wondered about me when I first came back. I would get up and leave the room when the news was reporting on Nam when I first came back. That first Christmas i made my own Christmas cards. On the front was a picture of some of our troops firing four deuce mortors with the smoke around them and their hands over their ears. Under the picture I started the quote from, Isaiah 9:6: "And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." I guess I was still hurting more than I realized. A few years later I remember walking through the old FedCo in San Bernardino and glancing at the evening news to see the retreat that was going on in the final days of the war. There was the "obligitory" shot of the last GI running for the last hellocopter from a base. I realized it was the base i was stationed at and on second look I could see the actual "hotch" (hut made of plywood and screen, tin roof) that I had lived in for that year. The configuration of our "compound" was very distintive so I was positive of what I was seeing. I left and went out to my car and sat there and sobbed for about 15 min. I couldn't stop. Visiting the Vietnam Memorial was also emotional since I knew some of the names chiseled into the memoral. Even more emotional was seeing a sculpture on a low rise overlooking the memorial with the figures of some men being helped to safety by medics. Well enough about something many here were not even alive for yet. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3904 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, my goodnes, Richardówhat deep scars those experiences made. I'm so sorryóbut thank you for sharing these with us. Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2005  |
I salute you, Richard ! I served prior to Nam under President Kennedy. Yours will be an extra special reunion in heaven when you are re-united with former buddies whose first allegiance was to the banner of the Cross. I'm sure there will be those of God's elect who surrendered to His Majesty, King Jesus, during their last moments in a fire-fight. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2510 Registered: 3-2004 |
Richard, I salute you also. My middle younger brother was a medic in the army and went to Vietnam, This was about 1968. He has never talked about his experience there. The oldest and youngest of my 3 younger brothers were all medics in army. The youngest stayed in Alabama and the oldest in Colorado, if my memory serves me correctly. And I salute Cw and Jwd for serving. Thank you so much. You are appreciated very much. Diana |
