| Author |
Message |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 376
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:28 am: |     |
Why did the church not buy the kid some shoes? Is that not the purpose of the church to take care of one another so that no one will go without? Acts 4: 32-35. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 717
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:20 pm: | |
Good point, Violet!
Dennis Fischer |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 379
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 7:00 am: | |
Dennis,
This story is a good example of how we can get so caught up in ceremony and regulation that we forget the purpose of life. To love one another. Don't get me wrong delayed gratification and sacrifice does not hurt one, but going without what is really needed may just put God in a bad light. One He has no desire to be in. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2212
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:01 pm: | |
I also have a story about shoes. I have a friend who had been living in a local cave for several years. Unfortunatelly her gas lantern got knocked over and her stuff caught on fire. She had to run out of the cave and to get out she actually had to run over the stuff that was on fire. Thus burning the soles of her feet really badly. Everything she owned was in the cave, she lost everything. When the forrest rangers found out about it she got a citation and now she can't be living in the cave anymore. Anyway, she mentioned to me that she grew up in Minnesota and had been raised Lutheran. She said she hadn't been to church in many years. The next Sunday I took her to church with me (Lutheran). She wore the only clothes she owned, the outfit she'd been wearing when she lost everything in the fire. She had on short shorts and a tank top. No shoes. Nothing else. Before she left the church she'd been given money with instructions to get to K-Mart and buy some shoes and she'd been given Script to various stores in the area so she could get herself some things she needed. Script is gift cirtificates that the churches and schools, Boy Scouts, etc. get a percentage of the proceeds from through the bunisesses. At one grocery store I believe it's 2%. Where I attend church the money goes to the youth outreach. It all adds up. Anyway, she went home from church with a lot of loot, well wishes and prayers. I was thankful I could be instramental in helping her get restarted in life. |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 380
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:24 pm: | |
This is religion
Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. James 1:27
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Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 718
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:49 pm: | |
Susan,
You are such a kind person to help that lady in desperate need. God sees the falling sparrow, and I am certain He notices our acts of mercy and kindness to others. This reminds me of how the early church had no poverty among their members--their Christian faith would not allow it. As Christ-followers, we are not a earthly people having a heavenly experience, but we are a heavenly people having a earthly experience--a short one at that.
His grace still amazes me,
Dennis Fischer |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2218
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 5:32 pm: | |
Dennis, I always like your wry sense of humor. I am referring to the SDA insurance company. You mentioned SDA farmers. Well, I grew up in an extremely rural area. There was a small SDA church in our town and those SDA's were/are very different than the city SDA's in the large city around 25 miles away. The farmer SDA's don't use any of the standard SDA hymmnals but rather a gosple country/western songbook and one man accompies songservice on his guitar. I occassionally got stuck with having to go to the large SDA church in the city and I had told an older lady at the city church where I was from. She had the nerve to tell me that she thought SDA's shouldn't be farmers or ranchers because a crop farmer might have an emergency with the weather and whatnot and might have to work in his fields over the Sabbath and for sure animal ranching was not a profession a Christian should be in because the cattle, chickens, and turkeys have to be fed and tended to over Sabbath and SDA's need to be in professions that are approved of by God so that they can keep Sabbath like thay are supposed to. I have been told so many loony things by SDA's I could write a book. It could be placed in the humor section of the bookstore. Didn't that lady buy groceries? Didn't her thought process go beyond her own food consumption to the folks who grew the food, packaged the food, marketted the food, and so on? Once again if I try to make logical sense of the things that come out of SDA's mouths I'd be banging my head on the wall.
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Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1302
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 10:21 pm: | |
It also makes no sense in light of all of the (Sabbath-keeping) Israelite farmers during Bible times.
Jeremy |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 185
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:45 pm: | |
Susan,
Another one I can't figure out is having to buy Sabbath meal tickets on friday to eat in the cafeteria at campmeeting (or SDA school) on Saturday. They pay the person at the door to collect the tickets, they pay the cooks, servers, and dishwashers for working on Sabbath. But somehow by using your cash-equivalent meal ticket instead of cash you are preserving the sanctity of the Sabbath. Talk about a legalistic mindset. I have to shake my head everytime I think about it.
Confounded yet again,
Randy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4046
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 12:16 am: | |
Chuckling, Randy...
I remember in the mid-70s or so hearing some California Adventists (yes, even though I was then in CA myself, they still seemed like a different breed to meóflirting with apostasy, you know...) discussing their plans to attend a concert which began on Sabbath. They had it all figured out, thoughóthey bought their tickets in advance.
I also remember hearing that a certain well-known and loved "California Adventist" preacher used to drive to a city about 45 miles away, wear sunglasses for partial ID cover up, and go to movies. Today that might not raise eyebrows as it did in the 70's and 80s. (For that matter, I remember a carload of us faculty members dressing up in costumes borrowed from the school's drama dept. to attend a movie when I was teaching at Gem State Academy...)
Talk about rationalizing and cognitive dissonance!
Colleen |
Justdodie
Registered user
Username: Justdodie
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 7:01 am: | |
I love to tell such stories about my younger SDA days to people who have never encountered such curious and convoluted thinking. Just out of high school I went to work at an Adventist hospital, and employees could charge their Sabbath meals and have them deducted from their paychecks. I don't know what the families and visitors of patients did because when I first started, money simply wasn't handled in the cafeteria on the Sabbath. Later on, they did change to accomodate the people who weren't employees, or employees like me who loved to go through the line and boldly 'buy and sell' on the Sabbath! I was such a rebel, even back then.
I remember as a child, going to public school. On Wednesdays we had ham and beans for lunch and I enjoyed it so much! I knew very well that was 'unclean' meat, but I smacked my lips and enjoyed it anyway. Even then, I was apostasy, just waiting to happen!
I also remember the shock I felt when I saw for the first time my father, while 300 miles away from home, blatantly break the Sabbath. I used to go every year to visit my brother and we would go see the Ice Capades in Kansas City. Well, one year my father decided he wanted to go. We got there, and to my horror, I found out that my sister-in-law had been unable to buy tickets for Saturday night, so she bought matinee tickets---for Saturday afternoon!!! I was horrified! I knew she knew better, although I shouldn't have been surprised. After all, she is the same sister-in-law who fed my father bacon-cheddar cheese without telling him and then took great delight in telling him what it was. (He fed the rest of it to my dog!) Grace is not overly fond of the SDAs or the way they screwed up her dear husband (my brother)! So anyway, I was thinking, 'Okay, my father will have to stay home all alone while we go off to have fun, and the ticket will be wasted and he will be so disappointed.' Ha! He proceeded to get right in the car with us without a word, and then walk right into Kemper Arena in broad daylight and proceed to thoroughly enjoy the show! You can bet he did NOT tell the whole story to his fellow SDAs when he got home from that trip!
So, I guess it's okay if you're 'forced' into it, and there are no other SDAs there to see you 'sin'.
Then there was the time when my cousin got married, and my mother and I watched in amazement as her devout SDA parents got up and danced!
Gradually, I've begun to realize that we're all just human beings, and these little oddities and 'indiscretions' no longer trouble me as they once did. But believe me, after all the railing against the evils of the world, and how much better we were as SDAs, it was really hard on me to see some of these people go against all their avowed beliefs. It's the rigidity, the narrowness, the smugness that make it so difficult. People claiming to be one thing, then doing another. It took me a long time to realize that's normal. 'Regular' people do it---SDAs do it too. Surprise! Surprise! Only, not nearly as much surprises me any more. And I can now chuckle at some of the sillier stuff, and go on.
Joyce |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 187
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 10:07 am: | |
Joyce,
Thank-you for sharing those experiences. I think we all have many such stories and it sure lightens the mood to hear some of them.
Again, think of all those millions of man-years of guilt that have borne by those who have been misled by legalism all under the name of spirituality and religion.
As per usual my disclaimer...(Again this is not SDA or EGW bashing, as these stories can be told by many brought up in other fundamentalist legalist churches.)
We speak to our experiences in Adventism specifically because this is what we know.
Joyce, thank-you for hanging around.
Randy |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2223
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 11:04 am: | |
I guess this is story telling time. This, friends is a true story. My son was always my dads boy. You know, grandpa's boy. They loved each other so very much. My son is now 31 years old and he misses my dad, like we all do, with much passion. Anyway, my son was in the state prison doing a year-and-a-half sentence. My dad even though he was very old having great difficulty getting around made sure to be at the prison every Sunday afternoon to visit "his boy". On the first visit to the prison we were sitting at the table visiting and my dad leans over to my son and tells him something like this, "I know in this place you probably don't get to order special meals. You probably have to take whatever is put in front of you." My son told his grandpa that yes, that was the way it is. So my dad then told him, "You don't eat the pork, do you?" My son said, "Oh no, Grandpa. You know I'd never do anything that bad. I try to trade it to one of the other inmates for something I can eat." Bless his heart, my dad was so proud of my son that he shinned knowing his precious grandson would never do anything as bad as eat pork. Remember, this is a young man who was in prison for what? BREAKING THE LAW! That issue never came up. By the way, this particular son is out of prison, has been for a long time now, has a good job that he likes alot and we are about to throw his "I'm finily off parole party". PRAISE GOD!!!!!! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4050
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 3:06 pm: | |
I lover your phrase, Randy, about our collective "man-years of guilt"! And you're right; we speak of these things because it is what we know.
It's sort of like the stories I've heard of soldiers sharing fox-holes, or of the missionaries I knew who had survived the revolution in Ethiopia years ago. Somehow sharing unique imprinting bonds people together with a sort of emotional super-glue!
Colleen |
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