| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1323 Registered: 10-2004  |
Let me know what you all think of the following link, which gives several accounts of people who have gone to hell--and come back to tell about it: http://www.emjc3.com/helland.htm These accounts are from a book called To Hell and Back, by Dr. Maurice S. Rawlings, a cardiologist. I find it amazing how the descriptions of hell match so well with the descriptions given by Jesus in the Bible, considering the fact that I was taught growing up SDA that Jesus' descriptions (in Luke 16 anyway) were just a myth. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 02, 2006) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1722 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Thanks for posting that link. I believe these NDE's have a medical and psychological explanation. The brain reacts in a lot of bizarre ways when it is exposed to lack of oxygen. If someone has been taught the Bible as a child, and they are taught the doctrine of hell as jesus taught it, then at near death, they may have flashbacks to those learned experiences. It may be possible that this is a way that God gets their attention. I believe the emphasis should be on good Biblical teaching about hell. The gospel should be proclaimed clearly. There is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. Sometimes these experiences are sensationalized. I would tend to not put too much credence in these stories. Stan | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 735 Registered: 4-2000  |
Jeremy, Thank you for sharing the link. On this one, I agree with Stan. It would seem very plausible that the brain would undergo various flashbacks or strange pictures with an interrupted oxygen supply. Even under various types of anethesia, patients give away all the family secrets, etc. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2005 |
This is interesting. I have a question regarding how you feel about NDEs. Remember that I am not that far removed from Adventism (still practicing after a sort), so perhaps this is foolish. How do you feel about NDEs that report a bright light (which I guess one would expect to be heaven) and the sense of peace, seeing loved ones, etc? Are these NDEs suspect because the person reporting the NDE saw hell or are all NDEs suspect? Admittedly, as an SDA, I just blew off NDEs as a tool of the devil to confuse and confound the doctrine of soul-sleep. I am not dogmatic regarding soul-sleep, but I will admit that I have not given a lot of time to studying the issue of 'what happens when we die' since I began questioning my long-held beliefs. I will get to it, it just happens to be somewhere down the list for me at the moment. InSearchOf | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1035 Registered: 7-2004 |
I know nothing of NDEs, but experienced an OBE (out of body experience) myself when I was 12. It was during a moment of extreme fear, and I was in my body one moment, and hovering over said body at what seemed like about 15 feet in the air the next. I remember looking at my very upset and aggitated self and feeling a slight sense of pity coming from a deep sense of peace. There is no way I can say how long this experience lasted, because I lost track of the sense of time. I was me, I was hovering over me, then I was me again. I will not say there is any real spiritual aspect to that experience. I had never heard of such a thing at the time so I doubt that I had any expectations or fantacies about such an event, it confused the daylights out of me, and I refused to speak of it to anyone for decades. I still don't really know what to make of it other than it is one of the more "real" experiences of my whole life. To deny it, or say it was a delusion would be a lie--it really happened to me. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4094 Registered: 12-2003  |
Belva, I tend to think your experience was a type of dissociation. Extreme fear, danger, terror, etc. that one cannot escape does precipitate various types of dissociation, especially in children. I'm not an expert in this, but your story does not really surprise me after some of the things I've heard from others who found dissocation to be an effective way, as children, of avoiding serious danger they could not escape. InSearchOf, I don't think the experiences of "seeing" hell are any more suspect than those of "seeing" heaven. I put all of them in the same category. I'm convinced that God can use any experience for His purposes, but I'm not convinced that these "sightings" are necessarily really heaven or hell. Colleen | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2005 |
I've come close to "buying the farm" several times and never had any weird experiences. Funny thing about people dying, has anyone ever heard at a funeral "so and so was a rotten SOB, they are roasting in hell now"? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4100 Registered: 12-2003 |
91 Stepsóhave you ever been to a Christian funeral, where the person who died knew Jesus, and the participants knew the departed one was safe with Jesus? I cannot believe how different a Christian funeral is from an Adventist one. It is actually a celebration of the person's life and a rejoicing in the faithfulness of God. If the dead person was not known to be saved, a Christian funeral would not presume to say he/she was in heaven. But, at least at our church, even this type of funeral would be an opportunity to invite those present to accept Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 456 Registered: 7-2000 |
I was a Respiratory therapist for 20 years--E.R., Cardiac surg., ICU, Shift supervisor and I've never found an NDE---and I asked. I've been very near death as well and I had no NDE. | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2005  |
Colleen, to be perfectly honest with you, I can not recall being to a non-SDA funeral where I knew the deceased was a good Christian. My late paternal Grandfather died about 8 years ago, I can not remember the last time he set foot in a church. Yet the Pastor my Uncle got to conduct the memorial said "Jim is up in heaven right now watching us". That Pastor never set eyes on my Pop-Pop in his life, yet he said the "right" thing, to comfort the family. I have been to several SDA funerals, each one was very nice, and it was more a memorial service then a funeral. The floor was opened for members to say what they wanted about the deceased, and that was very nice to see. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4136 Registered: 12-2003 |
91stepsóI understand. I agree that the pastor of your grandfather's funeral was just speaking words to make people feel better. A "true" Christian funeral, however, is more truthful than that and will not assume someone is "in heaven" if the deceased was not a believer. If a true Christian dies, however, a truly Christian funeral will be quite an amazing celebration of the security of eternal life and of the person's life in Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2596 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have to tell all of you about my Grandfather's funeral(my Dad's Dad). He did not go to any church. He was not liked by the older members of the family and was quite a stinker and I am using nice words, so you get what I mean. When he died, my 4 brothers and 2 cousins, my Dad's brother's boys, were the pall bearers. They knew what Grandpa was like. My Dad's sister arranged the funeral and told the SDA pastor what to say about Grandpa, which was all untrue. There in front sat my brothers and cousins and when the pastor started telling how good Grandpa was, their shoulders started shaking, because they did not want to burst out laughing loudly. Our aunt got after them after the funeral. I was not there at the time. I would like to have been. Just reminded me of his funeral and how things can be twisted. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1044 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've only attended two funerals that were not SDA affairs. One for my husband's grandmother (Mormon), and one for his aunt (Born-again Christian). The Adventist funerals were, as has already been stated, memorials of the deceased, nice, but non-committal, because no one could really presume to say anything about the deceased's status with God. I don't recall a whole lot of what was said about my husband's grandmother, only that she was said to be wearing the garment that all good Mormons wear. Otherwise it was confusing. Now, regarding his aunt -- that was a joyous affair. There was no doubt that all of her friends and family, who already sorely missed her, were celebrating her entry into eternity with her Savior. I'd never been in the presence of such certainty before in my life, and I liked it. It so happened that this coincided with my processing out of Adventism, and the event left me with plenty of food for thought. | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2005 |
I am reminded of a joke I heard many years ago. A Mafia Don dies and the preacher is on the pulpit just saying how wonderful Luigi was and how he is sitting in heaven now looking down at everyone in attendence. A voice at the back of the church hollers out "You didn't know him very well did you?" |
