| Author | Message | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2005 |
This is campmeeting time and for the first time, the Sabbath campmeeting service was available via the internet to those who had a high-speed link. The church I attend got the hook-up and we listened to Terry Moreland, a real estate developer from sunny California. Terry has been to India (this seems to be THE place for SDA evangilism these days) and spent the worship hour recalling his experience as the speaker of an evangelistic crusade there. As he began his talk, he mentioned that he had nothing to say to those that said EGW did not have a prophetic gift. He was rather strong about this. He then read the following quote from 'Desire of Ages', pg 640: ------------------------------------------------ 'All may find something to do. "The poor always ye have with you," (John 12:8), Jesus said, and none need feel that there is no place where they can labor for Him. Millions upon millions of human souls ready to perish, bound in chains of ignorance and sin, have never so much as heard of Christ's love for them. Were our condition and theirs to be reversed, what would we desire them to do for us? All this, so far as lies in our power, we are under the most solemn obligation to do for them. Christ's rule of life, by which every one of us must stand or fall in the judgment, is, "Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." Matt. 7:12. {DA 640.3}' --------------------------------------------- I wonder if he has ever read this: ---------------------------------------------- "We have entered upon time when the most earnest gospel missionary work is to be done. But I have been given light, decided light, that the so-called medical missionary work in America has absorbed means and labor that were needed in other fields where a strong influence for the truth should be maintained. If we should all engage in the work that Dr. Kellogg has been doing for the lowest class of people, what would become of the work that is to be done in the places where the third angel's message, the truth upon the Sabbath and the second coming of our Lord, has never been proclaimed?" (Manuscript Releases, Volume Fourteen, page 158, paragraph 2.) "In your letter you speak of the rescue work in the poorer parts of the city. I am glad that you feel a burden to help the very ones who need help. Christ desires His work to become the light of the world. He Himself came to make known to all classes the gospel of salvation. But it is not your special duty to make great efforts among the worst classes of society. There may be associated with you some who should work among the unfortunate and the degraded, but you are especially fitted to labor for the higher classes. Your influence with them would be lessened should you be associated largely with the rescue work for those who are generally regarded as outcasts.--Letter 158, 1909, pp. 4, 5. (To Dr. D. H. Kress, November 18, 1909.) Released April 28, 1976." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Seven, page 329 paragraph 5-page 330 paragraph 0.) "I can see in the Lord's providence that the medical missionary work is to be a great entering wedge whereby the diseased soul may be reached. I think, Dr. Kellogg, that there should be no mistakes made now to devote our powers too largely to the lowest class. There is work to be done for the higher classes, that they shall exert an influence in that line and be laborers together with God. . . ." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Two, page 239, paragraph 4.) "We do not advise our people to open up a work in our cities, to the extent of erecting buildings to which they can invite the most depraved class of people to come and receive food and beds and treatment without money and without price. None are required to establish a work in any city which gives to an indiscriminate class an invitation to be supported by the charities of the Seventh-day Adventists people, whose special work is to bear an unpopular message to the world. The commission is given to bear the message to all nations.--Letter 90, 1900, p. 2. (To Elder and Mrs. S. N. Haskell, June 12, 1900.)" (Manuscript Releases, Volume Four, page 420, paragraph 2.) "We are to present the truth to those in the highways. This work has been neglected. We have a work to do for the higher classes, and this work needs all our capabilities. While we are in no case to neglect the poor and destitute we have neither men nor money for the work among the very lowest classes. We point our workers to a higher grade. All reasons for this I cannot explain now. The fields ripe for the harvest have been spread before me. We must work for the higher class of people. Then we shall have strength and ability with which to carry forward in the lines which God has pointed out.--Letter 164, 1901, p. 2. (To 'Dear Brother A. G. Daniells,' January 23, 1901.)" (Manuscript Releases, Volume Four, page 420 paragraph 3-page 421 paragraph 1.) ..."Satan will so mingle his deceptions with truth that side issues will be created to turn the attention of the people from the great issue, the test to be brought upon the people of God in these last days. From the light that God has given me, I know that the gospel message for this time is being turned aside for work among the lowest class of people. This work is being made the all-absorbing work for this time, but God does not make it thus. But it is a never-ending work, and if it is carried on as it has been in the past, all the powers of God's people will be required to balance it, and the work of preparing a people to stand amid the perils of the last days will never be done." (Manuscript Releases, Volume Fourteen, page 160, paragraph 2.) "A work is to be done in the Lord's vineyard which will testify to the genuineness and value of the truth, and will glorify God. We are to labor for those who when converted will be a help in the work, producers not consumers. But the work done for the lowest class of outcasts is a very uncertain matter. Those who spend their time and strength in work for those who will never do anything but hang upon them for help, disqualify themselves for the position God would have them fill in His army. Workers are greatly needed to labor for those who rightly handled will come to a knowledge of the truth, and will then do valuable service in the cause. But those who after being prayed with say, I am saved, have no real understanding of what it means to receive Christ. No man can say, I am saved, until he has endured test and trial, until he has shown that he can overcome temptation. Those who fail to do the work which God has said should be done soon lose the right perception of spiritual things, and become blinded as to the character of the truth. They are unfitted to do the work which would make them complete in Christ." (The Kress Collection, page 120, ---------------------------------------------- I wonder if this is an example of 'progressive revelation'? It seems strange to me that effort is spent to 'evangelize' (read 'indoctrinate') vast numbers of Indians that would seem, at least on the surface, to directly contradict what EGW wrote so many years ago about not spending effort on the 'lowest classes' since there is no 'return on investment'. I think it would be better to present the Gospel in its simplicity and then dig wells, build clinics, etc., rather than being proud of the fact that those Indians that accept the messages they hear ask for Saturday off and are having it granted. InSearchOf | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2005 |
amen ISO, this is one reason when I was active in the dorcas center it closed because the pastor and the board asked the question as to how many poor people did the center bring into the church and the answer was a very small number over the years,so they closed the doors,"NO SOUP FOR YOU" Also to the Saturday work issue. I know of someone's husband that was a "new convert" was working for Remmenant publications he was fired from there because they found out he was "moonlighting" elswhere on the Sabbath. he has a young family with a bay on the way. and then the young teacher in Berrien that was fired because the officials found out she was four months pregnant and she had only been married for 2 months. Oh the compassion abounds out of the SDA church(not) and yet it is all said and done with a smugness that makes me ill. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4071 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dawn, it's easy to see where the smugness originates. Those quotations from Ellen are horrifying. Those were not primarily quotes from her early years, either. As InSearchOf suggested, these quotes puts the idea of "progressive revelation" in some perspective! A couple of years before he died, my dad read Canright's book on the life of Ellen G. White. My dad had been the "truest blue" Adventist imaginable when I was growing up, but he had begun to realize in the 80s that she was not consistent or truthful, and he and my mom had begun reading the Bible alone and had finally left the SDA church. At the time he read Canright, he had had some small strokes that left him with some disability in the area of finding the right words when he wanted to speak. I remember stopping in to see them one day and finding Dad in his chair with "the book". He put it down when I came in and said clearly and consicely, "That Ellen White was one wicked woman!" That about summed it up. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2235 Registered: 11-2002 |
Those quotes mention Dr. Kellogg several times. This is getting off the subject of the thread a bit but i never have been able to figure out how Mr. Kellogg fit in with early Adventism. Could someone please explain? Also, Where is this campmeeting at? The campmeetings in California are usually in August. The kids will not even be out of school yet for summer vacation and campmeeting is going on. That seems a bit confusing to me. Also, I have had many, many SDA's tell me that when the SDA missionaries are in non-Christian countries the SDA missionaries work in agreement with missionaries of other Christian denominations, like they have joint orphanages and Bible schools, etc. It isn't until these non-Christians have bneen converted to the truth of Jesus that the SDA's tell them the Sabbath truth and their truuth of the state of the dead, and other unique SDA interpertations of the Bible. I have always wondered if that is really true. Also, even articles in the Review say the Indians are especially vunerable to SDA'ims because Indians already either don't eat pork as with the Moslems and Sikh's or are vegetarian as with the Hindu's. So, the SDA's use food as the gateway to spring Adventism on the Indians. Very interesting topic you brought up, Insearchof. | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2005 |
Susan, Kellogg ran the Battle Creek Sanitarium. He was also instumental in changing the way that Americans eat breakfast (a bowl of corn flakes or granola, anyone?). He and EGW ended up on the outs. She claimed he was into pantheism (God is in everything) after he wrote the book 'Living Temple'. I can't say that I know Dr. K was a pantheist since I never read the book. He, on the other hand, knew that her testimonies were not inspired since she had testimonies concerning him that were not true (for instance that he had purchased buildings in Chicago which he had not). The campmeeting was the KY-TN campmeeting. It runs all this week. Your comments regarding SDA missionaries are interesting. It may be that we do work with other faiths in orphanages, schools, etc. I know several folks that have gone to India for these evangelistic crusades. I believe that much of this is put together by Maranatha or some other group. The presentation stuck me in a particular way since I had recently read the comments by EGW regarding work for the 'lowest classes' and her counsel that time and money should not be expended for those who would be a drain on resources and not an asset to the work. InSearchOf | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan, If you want a bit of a look into the life of Kellogg, rent "The Road to Wellville". It was a movie back in the 90's with Matthew Broderick and Bridgett Fonda. It is really a spoof on his quirks and his sanitarium, his adopted kids, his unorthodox treatments. It is really quite amusing. He apparently was obsessed with the bowels. Oh, and Anthony Hopkins plays him. Bb | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 474 Registered: 7-2004  |
Now that's an attitude I'm very familiar with. | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2006 |
i have a cousin who is a missionary (has been for many years, mainly in the middle east). he said that many missionary groups (baptists, evangelicals, etc) do not like working with sda because they will try to convert the new christian converts to sda'ism. they (the non-sda missionaries) do not necessarily channel them into a particular church, but rather teach them simply the gospel and life of Christ, and help them with basic necessities, then move on. the sda missionaries often will come in after and teach their unique beliefs, build a church, school, health center (very impressive and needed things) . | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4078 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've heard the same thing, Nicole, from non-SDA Christians. A few years ago a woman who had been in a Mission Aviation Fellowship outpost in an underdeveloped country told us that she would man the radio for incoming mission planes. They periodically had Adventist pilots who landed at their station for fuel, etc. She was aware of some of the surface restrictions of Adventists, but she told us with a chuckle that whenever an Adentist pilot radioed his approach, she would tell him that she had ham sandwiches ready for him and his co-pilot. Of course, she did give them food they would eat, but it was her little joke. Colleen | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 141 Registered: 2-2006 |
Nicole, My sister, who goes overseas a lot--mostly to African nations the most-- says the same thing. The other missionary denominations or established churches for nationals call it 'Stealing Sheep'. Cathy | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2005 |
"No man can say, I am saved, until he has endured test and trial, until he has shown that he can overcome temptation." Sounds like pure, unadulterated false gospel to me... Thank you, Lord Jesus, for showing the heresy of that statement to us. Please, please continue to use us as your vessels, to continue your work of exposing the errors of Adventism! In Jesus, Patria | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2005 |
I worked in the Security Dept at the GC for about 6 years full time, and 1 1/2 years part time, week-end shift, prior to that. It baffled me that I was told it was okay to work at the GC, performing Security, on the Sabbath, but not at my full time job. I ended up leaving two good jobs because they wanted me to work a few Sabbaths during inventory, maybe two Sabbaths. When I wanted to get back into Law Enforcement I had two "elders" at the church I attended tell me it was okay to work at the GC on Sabbth because wink wink, nod nod, "You are protecting the head quarters of God's church". But I would break the 4th commandment if I became a Police Officer again and worked on the Sabbath. Neither of these two "elders" should have been in office according to the church manual, but they were niiiiiiiiiice to everyone, said what was needed and didn't make waves. I stopped attending this church well over a year ago, to date I have not received one call or letter from ANYONE there asking about my health, etc. So it is quite apparent that I am one of the little fish and not worthy of being checked on. Up until 2 weeks ago I was still employed at the GC in the Security Dept as an on call Officer. But due to my job with the Govt I have to be extremely careful with coming in contact with foriegn nationals, which the GC is full of. There are many foriegners employed at the GC who are NOT US Citizens and WILL NOT become one. Several of the VP's as well as the Pres are not US citizens. And many of these employees hold allegience to the church higher then the United States. Anyhow, I am in the process of drafting up my letter to my former church requesting my name be taken off the books. I also and going to inform them to not bother to contact me since my mind is made up and I can not continue to belong to a church who's beliefs are now contrary to what I have learned and who has members that are not loyal to the US. The church has a strong hold on my wife, I can not even get her to attend the Messianiac Jewish Congregation I attend on Sabbath, she has been given so many offices that she is always doing something for the church. I can only pray for her delieverence from their hold on her. The "Sister White Says" issue has always bothered me. There were members of the church we joined that spoke more of her then God, Jesus or the Bible!!!! That really made me feel uncomfortable and now that I severing my membership I feel like a new man. Sorry to have rambled on, the stories I could tell from my years at the GC would curl your hair. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1036 Registered: 7-2004 |
91Steps, you should never apologize for sharing. I have a dear friend who has "Sister White says" as the beginning of nearly every sentence or paragraph out of her mouth. Her father was a conference official, and she has been a teacher in the Adventist system for over 35 years, so she is deeply buried in the SOP. I agonize over her in prayer, and must leave her to Christ because she views me as a poor soul who has betrayed my true calling in Adventism. I'm sure she prays for me, too. It is a form of mind control, and when they get together and share all of their "Sister White says" phrases it just buries them deeper. It is truly hypnotic! | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2005 |
Belvalew, I don't apologize for my opinions, I could go on and on about the stuff I saw at the GC. There was one elder at the church I used to attend, the Personal Ministeries Leader, who would talk on and on about Sister White. We had some non SDA visitors ask the Pastor who Sister White was so they could meet her. I had someone call the GC one time asking to speak to Sister White, that threw me for a loop!!!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2576 Registered: 3-2004  |
91steps, I can imagine you could write a book about the GC that could cause them all kinds of embarrassement. And when I graduated from LLU I wanted to work for the denomination and was disappointed that I did not. I am glad now, that I did not. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1324 Registered: 10-2004  |
91steps, how can they be loyal to a nation which they proclaim to be "the beast of Revelation 13"? The unpatriotic nature of the SDA church has always bothered me. And it's not ok to protect others on Sabbath, only the sacred GC headquarters? That really gets me, too. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 04, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4105 Registered: 12-2003 |
91Steps, you have seen Adventism from a perspective many of us have only heard of, if that. The double standards are amazing. Praise God that He leads us to Himself. With prayers for you and your wife, Colleen | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2005 |
What sickened me the most was that there were 3-4 American Flags displayed in the entire GC. But there were over 8 UN Flags!!! I decided I could not serve two masters and work for the GC. I lost some good friends in defense of our great nation and it makes me ill how allot of SDA's wrap themselves in the Flag, when it suits them. Maybe someday I will write a book on my "sentence" at the GC. There are double and triple standards there, if the rank and file SDA's saw what I did they would leave so fast it wouldn't be funny. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1325 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think you should write a "tell-all" book. People need to know how corrupt the SDA church really is. Jeremy | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2006  |
91steps, after 37 years in law enforcement I'm glad I was never an Adventist. I enjoyed my career but I probably would have been looked down on? I know I worked many more Sabbaths than I ever had off. And having worked much of it on graveyard shifts arresting drunk drivers and such I wonder now why it seems more happens on Friday nights than on Saturday nights. Many of my partners and I have remarked over the years that Fri is generally worse than Sat. CW |
