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Violet
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Username: Violet

Post Number: 408
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check this out--it sounds like to me that SDAs should not own stock in any business that has employees that work on Sabbath.


Business Ties With Sabbathbreakers.--There is need of a Sabbath reform among us, who profess to observe God's holy rest day. Some discuss their business matters and lay plans on the Sabbath, and God looks upon this in the same light as though they engaged in the actual transaction of business. {Ev 245.1}

Others who are well acquainted with the Bible evidences that the seventh day is the Sabbath, enter into partnership with men who have no respect for God's holy day. A Sabbathkeeper cannot allow men in his employ, paid by his money, to work on the Sabbath. If, for the sake of gain, he allows the business in which he has an interest to be carried on on the Sabbath by his unbelieving partner, he is equally guilty with the unbeliever; and it is his duty to dissolve the relation, however much he may lose by so doing. Men may think they cannot afford to obey God, but they cannot afford to disobey Him. Those who are careless in their observance of the Sabbath will suffer great loss.-- Review and Herald, March 18, 1884. {Ev 245.2}

Riverfonz
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Username: Riverfonz

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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violet,
I have been told that the SDA church has owned stock in tobacco companies, and many other dubious ventures--I doubt Sabbath-breaking would upset the SDA hierarchy when it comes to making money.

Stan
Flyinglady
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not want to misquote EGW, but I remember reading, when I was in SDA school, that SDAs should not deal in stocks. Maybe Jeremy can verify this.
Diana
Violet
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Username: Violet

Post Number: 411
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This refers to any SDA so even the hard working corporate family man that has money in a 401k would have an interest in the stock in that fund. This just leads to the impossability of "keeping" the 4th commandment in today's world. Also even a bank CD would not be allowed as the banks have tellers working on Sabbath and they take their excess funds and invest in various equity instruments.
Dennis
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ellen White was also against life insurance. While still an Adventist, I had a book by a SDA evangelist who wrote a whole chapter on the evils of life insurance. I likewise believed Ellen's prohibitions against life insurance.

However, one day while a student at Union College, I told one of my friends about the evils of life insurance. This friend told me that if it hadn't been for life insurance when his father died, he would not have been able to attend college. This was before the days when easy college loans were readily available. He is now a physician in southern California. Once again, Ellen was wrong.

Dennis Fischer
91steps
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Riverfonz, the GC has a woman who's job is to invest in the stock market for them. Who knows what they invest in, but I bet it isn't only with SDA owned companies.
Violet
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Post Number: 414
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would love to ask her how she could justify her job in light of Ellen's commands.
Jeremy
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Post Number: 1351
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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was taught growing up that investing in stocks was sin and gambling period.

Diana, here are some quotes from EGW on the subject of stocks:


quote:

"It is a serious thing to embezzle the Lord's goods, to practice robbery toward God; for in so doing the perceptions become perverted and the heart hardened. How barren is the religious experience, how clouded is the understanding, of one who loves not God with pure, unselfish love, and who fails, therefore, to love his neighbor as himself. Though precious opportunities are often presented, he does not accept them, and refuses to wear the yoke of Christ, to be a laborer together with God. Those who follow their selfish, natural inclination, do not make their hearts an abiding place for Christ. They fail to bless others with means that God has lent to them in trust, in order that they may be his almoners; and instead of dispensing it to the poor, like the slothful servant they bury it in lands or in stocks, or give it to their relatives, and the Lord receives neither interest nor principal. The last great day will reveal to them and to the whole universe what good might have been done, had they not followed their selfish inclinations, and thus robbed God in tithes and offerings. They might have placed their treasure in the bank of heaven, and preserved it in bags that wax not old; but instead of doing this, they expended it upon themselves and their children, and seemed to feel afraid that the Lord would get any of their money or their influence, and thus they met with eternal loss. Let them contemplate the consequence of withholding from God. The slothful servant, who puts not out his Lord's money to usury, loses an eternal inheritance in the kingdom of glory." (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 01-22-1895, "Followers of Christ Will Be Missionaries (Concluded)," paragraph 1.)

"Now we call upon all who will, to help us in the work. Of what use is it to lay up worldly treasure? Read the words of the apostle James, "Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your misery which shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days." We certainly do not want to be of the class who have heaped together treasure for the last days, to eat our flesh as it were fire. In that fearful time all men will understand their misuse of God's money. Those who have squandered His gifts will see how their means has been buried up in banks and stocks and mines and other enterprises where it could be of no benefit to the cause of God. They will see how their money might have been used to advance the cause of God and win souls for Him, and how through their misapplication of God's talent they have suffered eternal loss." ((Australasian) Union Conference Record, 01-01-1900, "An Appeal," paragraph 18.)

"It is God who gives men power to get wealth, and He has bestowed this ability, not as a means of gratifying self, but as a means of returning to God His own. With this object it is not a sin to acquire means. Money is to be earned by labor. Every youth should be trained to habits of industry. The Bible condemns no man for being rich if he has acquired his riches honestly. It is the selfish love of money wrongfully employed that is the root of all evil. Wealth will prove a blessing if we regard it as the Lord's, to be received with thankfulness and with thankfulness returned to the Giver.
But of what value is untold wealth if it is hoarded in expensive mansions or in bank stocks? What do these weigh in comparison with the salvation of one soul for whom the Son of the infinite God has died?" (Testimonies for the Church, Volume Six, page 452, paragraph 4-page 453, paragraph 1.)

"As a faithful watchman, you are to warn the souls that are in peril through worldliness, of their danger. Supposing it is no sin for those whom God has not called to minister in word and doctrine, to engage in real-estate business and mining stocks, would it not be altogether another matter for you, a watchman upon the walls of Zion, to do so? Your mind should be on altogether different themes." (Testimonies on the Case of Elder E. P. Daniels, page 32.)

"Dealing in mining stocks is a snare to any of our brethren who invest in them. And buying and selling city lots, selling the lots at figures far above their real value, is another species of robbery. It is not lawful business. It may meet the world's standard, but it cannot meet the standard of an impartial God. These are Satan's traps, laid to catch souls. Our safeguard in all business transactions is the love and fear of God. " (Manuscript Releases, Volume Fifteen, page 68, paragraph 1.)

"I was shown that there is no lack of means among Sabbathkeeping Adventists. At present their greatest danger is in their accumulations of property. Some are continually increasing their cares and labors; they are overcharged. The result is, God and the wants of His cause are nearly forgotten by them; they are spiritually dead. They are required to make a sacrifice to God, an offering. A sacrifice does not increase, but decreases and consumes."
My view of this matter of means was that there should be "a sacrifice to God, an offering;" and I never received any other idea. But if the principal is to be held good by stockholders, and they are to draw a certain per cent, where is the decrease, or the consuming sacrifice? And how are the dangers of those Sabbathkeepers who are accumulating property decreased by the present plan of holding stock in the Institute? Their dangers are only increased. And here is an additional excuse for their covetousness. In investing in stock in the Institute, held as a matter of sale and purchase like any other property, they do not sacrifice. As a large per cent is held out as an inducement, the spirit of gain, not sacrifice, leads them to invest so largely in the stock of the Institute that they have but little if anything to give to sustain other and still more important branches of the work. God requires of these close, covetous, worldly persons a sacrifice for suffering humanity. He calls on them to let their worldly possessions decrease for the sake of the afflicted ones who believe in Jesus and the present truth." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume One, page 636, paragraph 2.)

"The friends of humanity, of truth and holiness, should act in reference to the Institute on the plan of sacrifice and liberality. I have five hundred dollars in stock in the Institute, which I wish to donate, and if my husband succeeds with his anticipated book, he will give five hundred dollars more. Will those who approve this plan please address us at Greenville, Montcalm County, Michigan, and state the sums they wish to donate, or to invest in stock to be held as the stock in the Publishing Association is held." (Testimonies for the Church, Volume One, page 639, paragraph 2.)

"Those who have assigned to the charitable uses of the Institute the interest, or dividend, of their stock, have done a noble thing, which will meet its reward. All those who have not made an assignment, who are able to do so, should, at their first opportunity, assign all, or a part, as most of the stockholders have done. And as the growing interest and usefulness of this institution demands it, all, especially those who have not, should continue to take stock in it." (The Health Reform and the Health Institute, page 28, paragraph 2.)

"The Lord calls upon His people to arouse and to show their faith by their works. In times past, when our numbers were few, when those who were able felt it their duty to take stock in our publishing house, their prayers and their alms, the fruit of persevering, self-denying effort, came before God as a sweet savor. Our brethren and sisters who have received the precious bread of life brought to them in our publications should be even more willing to give of their means to support the cause than were those who loved the truth in former years." (The Publishing Ministry, page 118, page 3.)




Jeremy
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

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Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correction: that last quote should say, "page 118, paragraph 3."

Notice how in that first quote EGW twists Christ's parable of the slothful servant to say the opposite of what it says! Christ commends the servants who invested their money and condemns the one who did not invest!

Jeremy
Violet
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Username: Violet

Post Number: 418
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stan,
Help me on this one. White says it breaks the Sabbath, but they do it anyway. Do they not really believe that they will go to hell if they break the Sabbath? Then if that is so are they committing fraud on the membership? Telling the membership that White's writtings are inspired, but they do not go by them and threatening the average SDA with hell?

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