| Author | Message | ||
| Pigeonite Registered user Username: Pigeonite Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 |
I have an important question that I have been pondering for some time. First let me explain....I have always been a really nice person. I have always been compassionate and considerate of other people's feelings. I am not an angry or argumentive person and have always felt people should treat each other the very best they can. In saying this, I tend to take it to the extreme by avoiding conflicts and being a bit of a push over in order to please others or dissolve situations. I have always been told growing up that by being a "nice" person will mean I will get pushed around. And this has been so true my entire life, even through adulthood. I try and think, what would Jesus do, and resort to the "turn the other cheek" ideology and continue to be nice. My question is fact, what would Jesus do? I have thought about trying to become more aggressive, but for some reason it doesn't feel right. As Christians are we supposed to always "turn the other cheek"? Does God expect us to always be nice and "love thy neighbor", or does he encourage assertiveness and conflict in insulting, cheated, or other types of situations? | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2005  |
Dear Pigeonite, I have dealt with this very issue myself and found that there are times when we must put our foot down and not allow others to have their way, even if we're perceived as not being nice. I have also discovered there are times when we forgive, but we still put boundaries on the one who hurt us. I learned all this over a period of many years and as a result of discovering that my son had been sexually abused by my former husband while we were still married. When one lives through a trauma like that, one learns that it is possible to be "too nice." When it came to protecting my children, I learned to become agressive toward my former husband, although it was really more like taking a stand for righteousness. I told him that because he had made his choices, he had forced me to make choices I never would have made otherwise. I chose to divorce him. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2006  |
Good example Honestwitness, Jesus as well got angry at times, like about the trading going on in the temple. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4183 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hoestwitness and Mwh, you are so right. The bottom line, Pigeonite, is the issue of TRUTH. Being nice to avoid conflict at the expense of truth and reality is wrong. A strong or aggressive or manipulative person tends to find someone who keeps the peace and gives in because in this environnment the agressor can get away with atrocities. The reality of confrontation and conflict can make some people physically ill, and they learn to tolerate all manner of things in order to stay "comfortable". The problem with this sort of passivity, however, is that it is not truthful; it is the opposite of integrity. God doesn't expect us to be destructive or raging in opposition to evilóbut he expects us to clearly state the truth and to refuse to tolerate evil. Mwh's example of Jesus in the temple is good, and remember also that Jesus said that whoever sins against a child would be better off with a millstone hung around his neck and thrown into the sea, because their angels always see the face of His Father. Jesus tolerated idignity for the sake of His Father and His mission, but He did not manipulate or conceal sin. Remember how he quietly revealed the truth to the men accusing Mary Magdalene of adultery? How he declared the Pharisees' hyprocisy to them? God even concealed Jesus when angry mobs were trying to stone Him. The abuse the Bible says we can expect is the abuse that comes naturally as a result of the gospel. But the Bible never tells us to allow evil to have a foothold in our lives or our children's lives. I strongly urge you, Pigeonite, to read Gary Inrig's book "Forgiveness". It is a detailed discussion about true Biblical forgiveness and the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. We are not expected to be reconciled with people who persist in evil or refuse to acknowledge evil they have perpetrated. We are expected to surrender our right to "get even" to God, but we are not expected to "turn the other cheek" toward a person using their personal intimacy with us as a cover for hidden abuse and violence and evil. You can read an expert from Gary's book in the January/February edition of Proclamation here: http://formeradvent.temp.powweb.com/Proclamation2006_JanFeb.pdf You can also purchase his book online through Amazon.com. We are obligated to ask God to show us reality and to ground us in Truth and to give us His wisdom and authority to defend truth in the face of personal evil. Jesus Himself is our strength, wisdom, knowledge, and authority. When we become willing to love others for Him, He gives us His authority to confront evil without being destructive ourselves. Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 541 Registered: 8-2004  |
Thanks for posting this question Pigionite! It sent me digging. I fully agree with Honestwitness, Mwh, and Colleen that this does NOT mean becoming doormats, but what DOES it mean? I plan to continue searching and studying on this topic for myself, but looky here what I found so far! Here is a sermon I found on the topic that I'm really glad I got to read! Here are a few quotes from it to whet your appetite!
And again:
Here's a link that I wish could be more clearly 'sourced'. For now I'd just put it in the 'hearsay' catagory. If proveable it makes an interesting point. Then again it may just be somebody's wishful thinking. And here's a link to another forum's discussion on the topic. I look forward to the blessing of persuing truth in this area as well. God is such an awesome teacher! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 542 Registered: 8-2004 |
Oh, and here's Saddleback's response to the question of turning the other cheek, for those who might be interested. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 417 Registered: 2-2001 |
Excellent posts before me. The way I like to look at it is that we are commanded to love. When you love someone you have their best interest at heart. This sometimes means we have to be firm and stand our ground. Think of a mother and a two year old trying to cross the street by himself. She has to say no to protect the child. In the same way sometimes we have to stand up to bullies or they may go on the more dangerous grounds and really get themselves hurt. Picking on someone who is not as kind as you are. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2618 Registered: 3-2004  |
The way I see this is that God wants us to love those that hurt and revile us, but not place ourselves in that person's path where we can be stepped on again. We are not to retaliate or try to get even. Just leave those persons to God. This is very personal to me as I have a sister that has not been nice to me, another sister and a brother. So I just stay out of her way and leave her to God. Thank God she does not live near me. God is so awesome and He knows best how to convince and convict those people. Diana | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2006  |
Phil 4:5 says "Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near". This is one of my most used memory verses-actually from verses 4 thru 9-not because I am a gentle person by nature, but because I am not. A pastor and very good friend once told me the following story in trying to help me to be a more loving person: A very large and strong man got on the same elevator at the same time every morning. A small weakling of a man got on at the same time every morning and every morning the small man looked up at the large man and spit in his face. The large man would pull out his handkerchief and wipe off the spital, never say a word and then simply get off the elevator at his floor. This went on for years. Finally another frequent rider who had witnessed this many times asked "why don't you just squash that little wimp like a bug?" The large man replied "Hey, I'm not the one with the problem." I understood what my pastor was trying to tell me but I also added "okay, but I would certainly start taking a different elevator." Pigeonite, it might be as hard for a passive person to make himself/herself aggressive as it is for an aggressive person to mellow out. Though I'm sure a lot of our personality is built in to us through our DNA-and Stan could probably speak more intelligently to that-a lot is also a product of our environment. I was extremely quiet and introverted as a child and young adult but a career in law enforcement tends to change that. Some of it I'm thankful for. But now I often pray for a gentler spirit. However, I'm not sure "being nice" should be confused with being assertive. I hope you don't start being un-nice even if you learn to be a little more agressive. CW | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 157 Registered: 2-2006 |
Great question and posts! I relate to Honestwitness becasue my son was sexually abused, too, when he was 3 y/o. I was learning about boundaries, as a Chriatian, around that time, 16 years ago. It changed my life. Boundaries are necessary in life, but can be given in a loving and gentle way. They do not have to be aggresive, but should be assertative and firm. If the other person reacts in an ugly way, then that is their choice and personal responsibility, not ours. I have a family memeber, who batters boundaries of many kinds, and it takes a '2x4' to make them stop. Many people dont need the 2x4's, just a tactful, quiet word or two. "A gentle word can break a bone [of contention]." Proverbs. God led me to the verse, above, when a work collegue was gossiping lies about me, out of jealousy (I became assitant manager; she did not), once. It sent me into all kinds of turmoil and sleepless nights; which with having baby at home on top of it all, created havoc in my life. I couldn't allow her words to do that to me. After that verse and prayer, God helped me gently talk to her, letting her know that I knew what she up to, w/o out aggresion, and telling her that if she had a problem with me, to please, come to me and talk about it. We ended up good co-workers together. Back then, I was a very unassertative person and it scared me to do this, but getting through it made me stronger and more trusting in God to help me, when people were doing wrong. Now, the thing is, to not become a scary person to others, since I learned assertiveness. That is not the point of boundaries and setting limits on insults and/or abuse. As CW quoted, "Let your gentleness be evident to all" has been a special verse to me, for a long time. I desire gentleness towards myself; I desire to give it to others. Most people are surprised by gentleness, nowadays. Any kindness and the simple, old-fashioned courtesies. I've seen them change just from giving those things. "Would you like a cup of coffee. Let's talk.?" Always smile. Setting limits is not unscriptural. Jesus set some pretty serious boundaires in the Temple, twice.  Sometimes, we do turn the other cheek and let things go for the sake of peace and/or the Gospel. We are secure in Christ, his love, his identity, his strength to get through; the other person, who insults, may not be and we must take this into compassionate consideration, even as our feelings are hurt and angered (We can always release our feelings to God and a close friend). We can choose to let things go and choose our battles (I learned that with 2 teens!) I have found that Christ enables me to choose peace ("Seek peace and pursue it"), most of the time, and when I do need to set a boundary, he enables me to do it with his grace (I've stumbled on that a few times in anger, but God helped me make amends and take responsibility for myself, too). Recently, I read this bit of simple wisdom (most true wisdom is pretty simple): 'Hurt people....hurt people'. If I keep that in mind, it keeps me in Christ, more so, and his perspective. We do not know other people's stories; what is behind their ugliness or flak to us. It is probably deep, deep pain and woundedness; and they never had a chance to heal. By our words and actions, we might begin to give them a glimpse of light, love, hope and Life in Jesus. Never know. "Overcome evil with good". That includes setting limits or telling another person that they hurt you. If we do not, then many people never learn that their words and behaviour is harmful and/or inappropriate, and they will continue to leave the wounded in their path; sometimes, their own children. We can teach by example; what Christ grows us up to, in Himself, in time. All in love and grace, even firmness. Cathy |
