| Author | Message | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 333 Registered: 5-2004 |
I've been gone for a few weeks as I've been trying to get settled here at home and am finally back online. Even though I don't always post, I can't tell you all how much I've missed being able to check in daily to the conversations. You all have been on my mind and in my prayers! I haven't had time to catch up on all the threads, but in case you haven't seen this yet, here's the link to the new AToday and the articles on the new quarterly. http://www.atoday.com/index.php I found it kind of interesting...and now that I have more time on my hands, might try to find a copy of one so that I can discuss it with my family. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 432 Registered: 2-2001 |
Earlier this week on Bott Radio David Jerimah was preaching on the 2nd comming and used the Millerite movement as a what not to do. Dr. Jerimah's facts were a little different that what I had been taught, but his point was clear that no one knows the time or day of Christ's return. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4236 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good to see you, Esther! I checked out the AToday site yesterdayóinteresting! Violetówhat a switch to hear William Miller referred to in a sermon as a NEGATIVE example! Colleen | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2006  |
4th of july question if I may? I am always hesitant to start a new thread for questions that probably are old-hat to you all. So I will insert it here if that's okay. My church puts on a very large 4th of July program each year to which thousands are drawn. It is performed on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th of July each year in a large local park and includes the Gospel message, although in a way that won't drive unbelievers away. Anyway, as far as I know my daughter has never invited her SDA boyfriend to attend this. She would not invite him to sit with us anyway because she avoids bringing him around me. My question is: Does SDA feel about things such as 4th of July celebrations the way JW does? If he refused to stand for our National Anthem or recite the Pledge of Allegiance with the rest of us I'm afraid the fire works display would start a little early. I get accused of being "black and white" on many issues and I'm the first to admit it. Issues such as welcoming false doctrines into my family are definately black and white. Patriotism is also black and white. Is it because D knows that J and I can never be good buddies that she doesn't invite him to our Singing Flag or is it that SDA would frown on it? As far as my being black and white--isn't SDA doctrine black and white on many issues? It seems I get criticised for being unyielding in my believes while J gets praised for being unyielding in his. This last question is more rhetorical since you have already answered my "double standard" question in the past. Hope you all have a blessed 4th of July and thank you for being there to answer this non-former's questions. CW | ||
| Freeofe Registered user Username: Freeofe Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 |
CW~ I suspect her reluctance to bring him to the 4th of July celebration has more to do with the relationship issues instead of doctrinal beliefs. Adventists as a whole aren't against celebrating holidays or birthdays the way JW are. I have JW family and the difference is pretty striking. Some of the fringe Adventist groups don't celeberate holidays, but that's not the norm. I grew up in a fairly conservating Adventist church and if 4th of July fell on Sabbath, there would always be a patriotic acknowledgement for our military and freedom we enjoy in this country. In fact, we'll be celebrating 4th of July with my SIL/BIL who LOVE 4th of July and are an Adventist pastoral couple. Happy 4th of July to you as well! | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 460 Registered: 10-2005 |
CW, I don't think you can at all compare the Adventists to the JWs on this. I've known some Adventists that were in the military and loyal Americans. I've attended more than one church service where the Pledge of Allegiance was done and the American Flag was raised. I've never known Adventists to be anti-American. Perhaps I've seen some get a little fearful of Republicans... And by the way, speaking of JWs, a nice young JW came to my door inviting me to a JW convention downtown. I declined and told her I was a Christian. And she said in a nice sweet way, the Jehovah Witness religion is a Christian religion. She is in my prayers. Most Adventists that I've known wouldn't have any problems with attending such an event, provided it wasn't on the Sabbath (that wouldn't be an issue for all Adventists either I don't think). Also, I don't think the patriotic part of it would be frowned upon by most Adventists. I think the part of it that is worldly might be more frowned upon. I was always more comfortable in churches that were more conservative, not wasteful in a worldly sort of way. So if they back off from such an event, it might perhaps have more to do with it being somewhat worldy. I think that extremism in Adventism is brushed under the carpet. I'm not saying there isn't rigidity and fear. And like any thing that is covered, it is difficult to keep it from coming to light - like a lot of EGW stuff. But as far as being anti-American, I think you would find that in the break away groups, like the Adventist Reform Movement. They broke away from the Adventist church over the issue of war in the past. The Adventist Reform Movement broke away from the Adventist church because they upheld all of the 10 Commandments, including not killing. But the Adventist Church supports our military, but I'm sure with issues, of course. The more legalism there is, the more complicated a religion can be. With the Sabbath having such high regard in this religion, sooner or later, many of us who were Adventist couldn't help but see Jesus as more of a friend, not so much a Saviour. The Sabbath became something of a Saviour to me, in order to keep my friendship with Jesus and to eventually be Saved. Jesus isn't thrown out, just misunderstood. James 1 (NKJV) 2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. Lynne | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1366 Registered: 10-2004  |
CW, I think the reason a lot of SDAs might frown on it or be uncomfortable with it would probably be primarily due to the fact that it is a Christian ("Babylonian") event, coupled with the "worldiness/big display" that Lynne mentioned; and then throw in the fact that it is a display of patriotism which a lot of SDAs seem to be uncomfortable with--and you have an event they would pretty much want to avoid probably. Additionally, they might be afraid of the "joining together" of "church and state"--especially since the "church" in this case is one of those feared "Sunday churches" which is going to enact the Sunday Law and persecute the SDAs. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 30, 2006) | ||
| Cw Registered user Username: Cw Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2006 |
Thanks freeofe, Lynne and Jeremy. What a source you all are! And thank you Lynne for the James 2:1-8 reference. I keep a list of "to-be-memorized" scripture and it has been pretty well depleted-that's a good thing. So I was just praying this morning that God would start helping me with a new list and this is the first of that answered prayer. CW | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 570 Registered: 7-2004  |
Jeremy, I think you make a good point. Although many SDAs have no issues with celebrating the 4th of July, the mixing of a patriotic event with a church event could be difficult for some to swallow. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4243 Registered: 12-2003 |
I second Jeremy and Rick. I believe the mixture would be the problem. Even so, I believe that D's reluctance is probably more relational than "Adventist". I can't say for sureóperhaps her boyfriend doesn't want to be around her family. It could be that his reluctance is more of a driving force than even you know. If he can saprate her from you, the "alpha male" in her life before now, he has more of a chance to win her to his side. Just a guess. Colleen | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 433 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm a litle late on the discussion but I agree that patriotism is not an issue. As Pathfinders our leader was x-military and we learned proper treatment of the flag and always pledged allegence it the American flag the Christian flag and to the Bible at all meetings. |
