| Author | Message | ||
| Bobbylog Registered user Username: Bobbylog Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2006 |
I notice that many of us formers are living the fact of quitting the adventist church like a haunt, even after many years, it seems to be an unforgettable event in someone's life ...As , it's been a few months since I have formally left the church , I am wondering, is it going to be a haunting process that I must go though my life long ? like the sensation of feeling baptized , fears, getting call back , eventhough , I made some studies and don't believe in the sabbath anymore ... Well, I would like to understand how many of you feel right now .... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4267 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bobby, you've asked a very good question. For me, the process and feelings and the memories of leaving Adventism are very much the same as going through a divorce. Since I also was divorced many years ago, I know this comparison is accurate. (I've also heard other people compare the two!) It does get betteróand if you've come to know Jesus personally, the leaving and the anguish take on a new meaning and value. Leaving Adventism is not just leaving a churchóit's leaving your identity. Even if you haven't been an Adventist all your life, it defines you in a way few other things define you. It is normal to experience the "five stages of grief" in varying intensities for months and even for a couple of years or more. Those "stages" (which actually can come and go and overlap without any "order" to them!) include denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Some people experience one or two of these emotions much more intensely than any of the others, but just know that these emotions are normal, and they do abate with time. Here's just my personal advice: ask God to protect your heart, to keep you anchored in truth, and to be more real to you than the anger and sadness. The thing that really helped me the most in finally becoming free of the lingering feelings of fear and longing was when our family asked God to remove the spirit of Adventism from our hearts and to place His Holy Spirit in the place in our hearts where Adventism had been. That was a significant turning point for both Richard and me. Jesus is more powerful and more faithful than Adventismóand He is faithful to reveal Himself and to guard our hearts. Stay anchored to Himóand stay immersed in His word. That is the only place where you can be sure you are hearing truth and reality! That is where you will find comfort and your new identity in Jesus! Colleen | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 |
It has been 7 years for me. Most of the time now it is not much of an issue because I don't live near my family or former friends in the SDA church that I was raised in. But there is an emotional divide between my family and myself and at times when I see their dissapointment in my leaving the church anger resurfaces. And at times of further study I feel anger at being deceived. But then the anger subsides and I go on living in the freedom of Christ. I have grown so much spiritually since I left and know there is so much more to learn. At times I hesitate studying some issues deeply because of the emotions that sometimes go with it, but in the end it is well worth it. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2006  |
Colleen, I'm sitting alone in my living room reading your prayer and welling up with emotion. As I think about what the future holds for my husband and our family, I feel the fear of what he may have to go through in really transitioning out of Adventism. I hate the thought of him suffering, yet I've yearned for many years that he'd feel the joy and know the freedom that comes in Christ. Thank you for your beautiful prayers. I just prayed them myself. You all and this forum have become such a blessing, and truly an answer from God. Leigh Anne | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 219 Registered: 4-2005  |
I guess I'm addressing this to you all who have posted above. Like pieces in a picture puzzle, I find pieces of my temperament and experience relating to each of you in different ways or shapes. I just bowed my head and prayed for each of you. I've not posted much on the forum so we are strangers to each other, but all adopted kids of FATHER, and brothers and sisters of Jesus, our elder brother through God's election of grace. We are not like cookies from the same cookie cutter. Our temperaments are different as is our backgrounds. We have, as it were, had various impressions and teachings downloaded onto the screen of our consciousness, like software. Several "viruses" have impacted us so as to complicate the entire reality of where we are and what we are today. To clean out the virus effects of life-programming, and to remove the software of Adventism and parental influences, requires "different strokes for different folks." Only God's Spirit knows what is required for each of us. Remember, the Holy Spirit of Truth (Jesus) makes no mistakes; is never caught off-guard or surprised by unexpected events and the many twists and turns in our daily lives. He IS our Source and our Supply of all that is good and right for each one of us. Surely He who has the hairs of your head numbered, knows your secret thoughts, yearnings, fears and uncertainties. He wants you to daily turn over the reins to Him, so he can direct your course perfectly. A life silently lived "in Christ" has more impact and power than a thousand doctrinal discourses and arguments. The "fruits" born in our "branch life" (Jn 15) are the results of a healthy, living union / connection with Jesus, the True Vine. We are told to keep our eye of faith fixed upon Jesus, the "Author and Finisher." Our part is simply to "abide in Him." That's done by faith and a consistent devotional life of feeding upon His Word, the Living Bread of Life, and praying continually. It's called transcendent union. Jesus did not commission us to go and convince all others, especially our mates and family members, that our understanding of Scriptural interpretation is now the only right/correct/true one. He asked us to abide in Him; to remain "in Him" and then added, "you can't bear fruit unless you remain in me." (Jn 15:4). If you begin reading through tne New Testament together, out loud, taking turns reading if you like, there will be countless opportunities from the Bible itself, for discussion. You will be walking on a pathway made of nothing but pure Gospel stones. Your mates won't be able to read along very long before stubbing their toes on nothing but pure Gospel truths. Let the WORD speak for you. As for the pain of departure from Adventism and the mental and emotional trauma incurred; .... well I liken it to branding cattle. I once helped round up and brand cattle in Wyoming. They cried aloud, but quit once the brand was removed. However, the imprint of that "branding" remained with them as long as they lived. We will bear the brand of Adventism till Jesus comes. However it is not us. It is not to dominate our thoughts and our spirits; but be just one mark of life's experience we bear to the grave. Over time, the hair grows over it and the brand mark becomes less pronounced. So may it be with us.....through the grace of Christ Jesus our Lord and our FATHER. Colleen's counsel is wise and I believe true. The more we spend time in communion with Jesus, in reading about His life, His role in our salvation, the more we will come to experience His leading us "beside still waters," and the memory and pain of our past "branding" will fade "and the things of earth will grow strangely dim, in the light of His glory and grace." 1 Pet 4:1, admonishes us to arm ourselves with the same attitude of suffering for and with Jesus as He Himself had. Departing from Adventism, following the voice of the Shepherd as we hear His call to us, involves suffering for righteousness sake. Let it be for His glory. And let us trust Him with the care and enlightenment of our loved ones. Jess | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2004 |
Jess, Thank-you for that wonderful post. I am especially struck by your comment that "Jesus did not commission us to go and convince all others, especially our mates and family members, that our understanding of Scriptural interpretation is now the only right/correct/true one. He asks us to abide in Him; to remain in him, and then added,"you can't bare fruit unless you remain in me"(John 15:4) This is a challenge, as we of course feel we have Good News to share. Your comments remind me that if we remain close to Jesus, he will use us as He sees fit. It is not our job to convince but rather it is our job to reflect what Christ has done for us. Thank-you again Jess. Randy | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2005 |
I thank you also Jess. That was just what I needed to hear tonight. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2646 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jess, What you said about our commission from Jesus reminds me of something our preacher said two summers ago. It was, "before we can share good news, we have to be good news." I can only be good news when I let Jesus control me and dwell in me with the Holy Spirit. I do not have to do it myself. Thank God for that. Diana | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2005 |
Randy, Lynne, and Diana; (Not edited) I am blessed that you gained something worth while from my post. It also encourages me. In all honesty, I must admit a paradox within my own self. The more I discover of deeper levels of the authentic Gospel, the more I feel I know nothing and am but a simple learner.....for the first time. But the paradox between what I posted and what I often feel within, relates to what I picked up in Randy's post. I "still" often feel "driven" to attempt to share the "new" (which are so very old) things I am discovering and coming to understand at deeper levels. I want others to know the joy of absolute assurance and freedom in Christ Jesus. I almost want to tie them up and gag them, while I teach and preach and pound "my new truth" into them, until they are so overcome they melt in total surrender of full acceptance, understanding and uncontrolable joy. But it never takes place. Almost every time I try to "pour the good things I've learned onto someone else" ~ I'm terribly disappointed. It doesn't appear to make the slightest difference, and if anything may drive them away farther. I "think" ...or I "suspect" that I am coming to the point where I will say absolutely NOTHING, unless I am questioned. I may have been bursting in to take over the job of the Holy Spirit on many occasions. If the Holy Spirit wishes to speak through me, He surely can speak through me, in spite of and without the interference of my ego and my ideas of what they need to hear. One small bite of any delicious food, is a powerful motivation for wanting more. But no one enjoys being force-fed, I don't think, do you? I guess what I'm saying here is that while I expressed some of my convictions, I am not to the place where I practice what I preach with absolute consistency. I have to admit the possibility that if the real and whole truth be told, as only God knows it; my motivation for sharing the truth as it is in Jesus, may be more ego than pure desire to see them embracing Jesus and His truth themselves under the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit. Maybe I want them to rejoice in the gospel "I shared." Get my point? The ego is more contaminated and self-centered than any of us realize. So Diana's quote of being the good news before we can share the good news fits perfectly here, I think. Just trying to be honest here. But I do believe the principle wholly - that no power dwells within me to win anyone to Christ or to Him as THE TRUTH and THE WAY. Only the Holy Spirit of Christ can perform this miracle. Jesus IS the Gospel. And this Gospel IS the power (dunamis) of God unto salvation. Rom 1:16. The hardest task before me and my ego, is to remember, I'm just a branch. All power and life comes into me from the Living VINE Himself. The point of connection is where my attention needs to be kept; not on the activity or lack-thereof, on the other end of myself (the branch). ALL Glory is to go to Jesus. None to me. I need to get out of the way SO THAT Christ and His power of Grace can work. He may choose to use me in this process. He may choose not to. It's the Potter's choice as to what to make of us. Perhaps He chooses to allow some of us to remain clumps of clay; and not beautiful vase at all. Maybe not even a humble tea cup. Am I willing to remain a lump only? OUch! That question hurts! :c) God bless you, Jess | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2648 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jess Wrote......"I want others to know the joy of absolute assurance and freedom in Christ Jesus. I almost want to tie them up and gag them, while I teach and preach and pound "my new truth" into them, until they are so overcome they melt in total surrender of full acceptance, understanding and uncontrolable joy." Oh Jess, I laughed when I read that "hog tying and gagging" because that is how I feel. I post on CARM and no matter what Bible quotes the formers use, they are only twisted to say the opposite. One person is trying to convince the IJ is Biblical. I finally told him that what I believe is between me and God, so leave it there. I have a sister and know several people I would like to hog tie and gag. But I just have to wait for God to do his work in his timing. Last time I looked, just a few seconds ago, I saw I was not God and I never will be. I am glad for that. So, I leave God's work to Him and have faith that He is doing it. All Glory does go to God and none to me. However He chooses to use me or not use me is up to Him and I am happy where ever. Every so often my human side kicks in and I ask God to hurry up. You asked yourself if you are willing to remain a lump of clay. I understand that ouch. Diana | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2005 |
Randy, Lynne, and Diana; (Not edited) I am blessed that you gained something worth while from my post. It also encourages me. In all honesty, I must admit a paradox within my own self. The more I discover deeper levels of the authentic Gospel, the more I feel I know nothing and am but a simple learner.....for the first time. But the paradox between what I posted and what I often feel within, relates to what I picked up in Randy's post. I "still" often feel "driven" to attempt to share this authentic Gospel truth along with the Reformation undergirding, with those ignorant of it. I want others to know the joy of absolute assurance and freedom in Christ Jesus. I almost want to tie them up and gag them, while I teach and preach and pound "my new truth" into them, until they are so overcome they melt in total surrender of full acceptance, understanding and uncontrolable joy. How happy that would make "me" feel. But it never takes place. Almost every time I try to "pour the good things I've learned onto someone else" ~ I'm terribly disappointed. It doesn't appear to make the slightest difference, and if anything may drive them farther away. I "think" ...or I "suspect" that I am coming to the point where I will say absolutely NOTHING, unless I am questioned first. I may have been busting in to take over the job of the Holy Spirit on many occasions. If the Holy Spirit wishes to use me, He surely can speak through me, in spite of and without the interference of my ego and my ideas of what they need to hear. One small bite of any delicious food, is a powerful motivation for wanting more. But no one enjoys being force-fed, I don't think, do you? I guess what I'm saying here is that while I expressed some of my convictions, I am not to the place where I practice what I preach with absolute consistency. I have to admit the possibility that if the real and whole truth be told, as only God knows it; my motivation for sharing the truth as it is in Jesus, may be more ego than pure desire to see them embracing Jesus and His truth themselves under the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit. Maybe I want them to rejoice in the gospel "I shared." Get my point? The ego is more contaminated and self-centered than any of us realize. So Diana's quote of being the good news before we can share the good news fits perfectly here. I think. Just trying to be honest here. But I do believe the principle wholly - that I am not a power to win anyone to Christ or to Him as THE TRUTH and THE WAY. Only the Holy Spirit of Christ can perform this miracle. Jesus IS the Gospel. And this Gospel IS the power (dunamis) of God unto salvation. Rom 1:16. The hardest task before me and my ego, is to remember, I'm just a branch. Nothing but a branch! All power and life comes into me from the Living VINE Himself. The point of connection is where my attention needs to be kept; not on the activity or lack-thereof, on the other end of myself (the branch). ALL Glory is to go to Jesus. None to me. I need to get out of the way SO THAT Christ and His power of Grace can work. He may choose to use me in this process. He may choose not to. It's the Potter's choice as to what to make of us. Perhaps He chooses to allow some of us to remain clumps of clay; and not a beautiful vase, which I dare say most of us would prefer to be. Maybe not even a humble tea cup. Am I willing to remain a lump only? OUch! That question hurts! :c) God bless you, Jess | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1858 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jess, I agree with most of the points you made. There seems to be a balance of sharing the gospel, and living the gospel. However, I cannot drink of the depths of God's wondrous sovereign grace, and not share these truths with others. Sometimes I don't do it in a very gracious way, but this doesn't mean we shouldn't try. When I read the great writings of the faith such as those of Charles Spurgeon, and John Piper, and so many others, we might get spiritually fat on these writings, but then we need to share what we have learned to others. I did a lot of things wrong when confronting my dad with the false teachings of Adventism, but when he saw the passion I had for truth, then he decided to investigate for himself, and the Holy Spirit did the work. I think I see the point you are making Jess, and that is we should not overly force our new found beliefs on others, but at the same time, even though God is totally sovereign in salvation, we are still commanded to preach and share the gospel. But Jess, it is great to see you back--those are great posts! Stan | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 785 Registered: 4-2000  |
Some of our Jewish friends declare that sharing the Gospel with them an "immoral" act. Increasingly, in the country of India, the Hindus are trying to circumvent Christian evangelism by establishing anti-conversion laws. Our Adventist friends insist that they don't need saving--they never knowingly sin anyway. Our SDA friends and relatives are likely to add, "Why don't you try to convert the heathen instead of bothering us?" Most people don't mind discussing elements of salvation as long as you don't ask them to make any changes their lives. The real truth, of course, is that Christians are missionaries. The Christian faith is far too exciting not to share it with others. The best things in life are shared. We cannot bear the thought of anyone else not having the joy and peace that we have found in Jesus Christ. Sharing our excitement about Jesus with our SDA friends and relatives is the most effective way to influence them. We are the only sermon heard, and only Bible read by many we come in contact with. May we never relinquish this noble calling! Let us pray to have an ever-increasing passion for reaching lost souls. All of heaven is astir and counting on us! Dennis Fischer | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hey Stan, I just wanted to let you know - I read the post you wrote about your Dad and loved it. It really gave me a lot of hope in dealing with/praying for my in-laws. Truly, anything is possible with Christ!  Thanks for sharing that, Leigh Anne | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1380 Registered: 10-2004  |
You posted some great points, Dennis. I think it is important for us to remember that we are called to share the Gospel, no matter what the results are. We have to just leave the results up to God. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 08, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4282 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jess, I understand what you are saying. I am finding that God brings opportunities to speakóI don't have to manufacture themóand He also gives words and insight. I think, for me, "evangelizing" has changed from my past in that I no longer feel guilt-driven to "say something". I'm finding that it's quite spontaneous to speak up in many situations, and I no longer feel the embarassment I used to feel. Now that I know Jesus and experience Him, it's much easier to speak of Him. Sometimes, however, it's clear that I'm not to speak. At those times, I don'tóand there's no guilt. Richard has told me that over the years, in his work at LLU, there were tikmes he was prepared to say something to people, but he sensed God just keeping him from speaking. He learned to recognize when God was giving him openings to speak, and when he was just to be still. But Dennis, you're right about it being our God-given responsibility to speak for and of Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1861 Registered: 3-2005 |
Leigh Anne, Thanks for the kind words. Yes, my dad's transformation is truly a miracle of grace. I still can't believe he is going to a Sunday church these days, because he was sure all those who went to church on Sunday had the mark of the beast. Praise God for His faithfulness! Stan | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2006  |
What a blessing to read this thread! Here's a short devotional for those like myself who don't always want to wait on the Lord and would instead seize the day and make 'em listen! http://ww2.intouch.org/site/c.7nKFISNvEqG/b.1014819/k.8FC6/InTouch_Today.htm Bob | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 222 Registered: 4-2005 |
Colleen, I think you have clarified my attempt to explain my point. When Phillip asked the Ethiopian if he understood what he was reading the Ethiopian's response was one of openness with a willingness to listen. When a person shows no interest by words and/or body language, based on my personal experience, I now question whether the great commission mandates that I press forward to continue making my points. Primarily the experiences I have been involved in are not those where the person has never heard the gospel; but one of endeavoring to convince the person of points of truth which I suspect he has never heard or had presented clearly. Most often the person's response is defensive and argumentative. I pray continually about these situations, especially where friends and family are involved. So far I am not convinced that I should continue to attempt to press my points home, which in most instances is interpreted as my trying to convince them to think as I think, to believe as I believe. It has felt to me as if I have cast my pearls before someone who cannot see them as pearls (to paraphrase the more harsh biblical statement). I no longer feel I am neglecting to witness for Christ, nor the need to press in where I am not welcome; but retreat to daily prayer for these individuals. One such person is our own daughter. There is not an instance where I am with such individuals that I am not praying for the Lord to open a door through which I can step to share some seed of truth, IF it is God's will. I simply no longer feel it is God's will for me to do it every single time. And like Colleen, I no longer feel guilty for not "witnessing." Stan, your father's response is wonderful indeed and I rejoice with you over his reaction to your "passion." However I am inclined to believe such an experience is the exception not the rule, unfortunately. Whenever anyone forces me to listen to them when I have clearly indicated I am not interested my response is tension, impatience and even anger on occasions. "What is it about 'No!' you don't understand?" is what I think or have said. Lest I be misunderstood, let me say that I am not suggesting there is only one right way or answer to this problem. I have simply found that being forceful and ignoring their coldness or request to not talk religion anymore in pursuing the idea that I "must witness to them no matter what their attitude," is both impolite, discourteous and bull headed on my part. My way of continuing to attempt to witness to such people is to include a Bible text or a quote from time to time; or to mention some blessing I received from reading a certain Scripture that morning, etc. So far not one has ever responded in anyway or acknowledged any such statements. Until they ask a question, want clarification or reply in some way specifically addressing the "seed thought" I sent them, or mentioned in conversation; I do not feel like pushing further to have dialog where there IS NO DIALOG. Enough. Jess | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 223 Registered: 4-2005 |
Colleen, I think you have clarified my attempt to explain my point. When Phillip asked the Ethiopian if he understood what he was reading the Ethiopian's response was one of openness with a willingness to listen. When a person shows no interest by words and/or body language, based on my personal experience, I now question whether the great commission mandates that I press forward to continue making my points. Primarily the experiences I have been involved in are not those where the person has never heard the gospel; but one of endeavoring to convince the person of points of truth which I suspect he has never heard clearly. Most often the person's response is defensive and argumentative. I pray continually about these situations, especially where friends and family are involved. So far I am clear that I should continue to attempt to press my points home, which in most instances is interpreted as my trying to convince them to think as I think, to believe as I believe. It has felt to me as if I have cast my pearls before someone who cannot see them as pearls (to paraphrase the more harsh biblical statement). I no longer feel I am neglecting to witness for Christ, nor the need to press in where I am not welcome; but retreat to daily prayer for these individuals. One such person is our own daughter. There is not an instance where I am with such individuals that I am not praying for the Lord to open a door through which I can step to share some seed of truth, IF it is God's will. I simply no longer feel it is God's will for me to do it every single time. And like Colleen, I no longer feel guilty for not "witnessing." Stan, your father's response is wonderful indeed and I rejoice with you over his reaction to your "passion." However I am inclined to believe such an experience is the exception not the rule, unfortunately. Whenever anyone forces me to listen to them when I have clearly indicated I am not interested my response is tension, impatience and even anger on occasions. "What is it about 'No!' you don't understand?" is what I think or have said. Lest I be misunderstood, let me say that I am not suggesting there is only one right way or answer to this problem. I have simply found that being forceful and ignoring their coldness or request to not talk religion anymore in pursuing the idea that I "must witness to them no matter what their attitude," is both impolite, discourteous and bull headed on my part. My way of continuing to attempt to witness to such people is to include a Bible text or a quote from time to time; or to mention some blessing I received from reading a certain Scripture that morning, etc. So far not one has ever responded in anyway or acknowledged any such statements. Until they ask a question, want clarification or reply in some way specifically addressing the "seed thought" I sent them, or mentioned in conversation; I do not feel like pushing further to begin a dialog where there IS NO DIALOG. Enough. Jess | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2005 |
One more thought. Acknowledging the great commission.....over and above that, I do not find any Biblical mandate for me to convince others to believe my personal theology. I do find a primary Biblical mandate, which is to love. Jess | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4291 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree, Jessówe're never asked to convince others of theology. We're asked only to witness of Christ and Him crucifiedóand to love with the love of Christ. While there are times when we must expose certain falsehoods (i.e. our Adventist "stuff"), still even this must be in the context of revealing the true reality of Jesus and the gospel. Theology without experience and subjective effects is just one more philosophy. The reality is found in Christóand He changes our heartsónot only our minds! Colleen | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2006 |
Hi Friends The link to In Touch devotionals is good, but the devotional changes daily. The sidebar has info for reading previous messages. Bob |
