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U2bsda
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Username: U2bsda

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A SDA (talking to other Christians of various beliefs) recently said this:

"others (myself included) believe that the Moral Law (10 Commandments) still stands as well as health laws (sexual purity, diet, etc."

I am a former SDA and while I believed that as well I am wondering the rationale behind picking and choosing which laws besides the 10 commandments are applicable today. Was it because EGW said a, b, and c are applicable but the rest aren't?
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 86
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi U2,

I've thought of that myself. When you really read the OT there are hundreds of laws there that if you really "obey the law" should be counted in...

Just this morning, I wondered how long America has clung to the 10 commandments on a cultural level (posted in courthouses and some schools) and if that might be part of the reason EGW took that idea and ran with it.

Or, was it a really lame attempt at becoming a Jew so you could be one of God's "chosen" people?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 4394
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting questions, U2b and Leigh Anne. As far as the cling-on Levitical laws in Adventism goóthose exist because Ellen White said they should. I think, Leigh Anne, that the idea that they were "spiritual Israel" was related to hanging on to some of those laws. They saw God replacing Israel as His people with Adventists.

I believe this "spiritual Israel" idea played heavily into their latching onto the Sabbath; it was the sign of israel's covenant with God; Adventists super-imposed themselves over Israel and claimed God's blessings for Old Covenant Israel for themselves.

As far as the 10 Commandments in everyday life goes, that notion derives from the Puritan tradition of Covenant Theology. They believed the Decalogue had a continuing purpose as a guide for moral living, and the early Adventists were merely using the law in a manner familiar with many Christians.

In reality, however, they probably used the law more accurately than the Puritans did, because they accurately kept the 4th commandment on Sabbath instead of on Sunday. The Puritans believed in "replacement" of Sunday for Saturdayóa concept never taught in the Bible.

Understanding the New Covenant as Galatians, Romans, Hebrews, and Colossians etc. explains it puts the law in its proper perspective as completely fulfilled in Christ. In fact, I've thought often that one of the things God is doing in awakening so many former Adventists to the gospel is He is equipping a growing number of Christ-followers who really understand the new covenant as Paul teaches it. They are able to contribute the clear understanding that the law was fulfilled in Christóeven the Sabbathóand our response to this miracle is to give up our lives into His control and to rest in Him every day, even when life is crazed.

Former Adventists do have something to offer Christianity that is akin to what converted Jews can offer: they see how Jesus was foreshadowed in the law, and they see how He has replaced the law as our guide, rule of faith and practice, and identity.

Further, the NT contains every bit of moral advice a person needs to live a God-honoring life.

As far as which "ceremonial" laws the Adventists keptóthat derives from Ellen!

Colleen

Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 115
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there some good EGW quotes on the keeping of the "ceremonial" laws?
Jwd
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Username: Jwd

Post Number: 230
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,

I always wondered how SADventists claim that the Cerimonial Law was nailed to the cross, yet they adhere to the Levital law pertaining to unclean meats! Some things (now) just don't even make good horse sense! :c)

Jwd
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Username: Jwd

Post Number: 231
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to open this old can of worms, BUT.......

Bonnie printed an article appearing on MSNBC.com yesterday under the headline: "Heart tip for those over 70 - drink up!"

The study came out of Chicago, of men and women age 70 to 79 found that those who downed one to seven alcholic drinks a week had significantly lower risk of heart problems or even death that thos who didn't imbibe.

The study involved 2,487 mena nd women without heart disease who were recruited for the study in 1997 and 1998. They followed them for five years with blood tests.

Light to moderate alcohol consumption is associated with a 26% reduced risk of all-cause mortality (did you get that?) and almost 30% reduced risk of cardiac events, compared to non-drinkers.

Light to moderate consumption was defined as one to seven drinks a week, with a "drink" being either one can of beer, a glass of wine or a mixed drink with one shot of liquor.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14013415/

Gal 5:1

Jess
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 559
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dang-it Jess what did I do with that bottle I hid back behind the cereal boxes??

Actually on second thought I have a long time still until I'm in that age range. :-)

Richard

rtruitt@mac.com


Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 2263
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was told recently that tattoos are a sin because to knowingly do anything to our bodies that is harmful is a sin and so tattoos is a sin. This applies to ear piercing, too. When I got my ears pierced around 17 years ago my son told me I would go to hell because I knowingly violated my body. This is the same son who made me and his youngest brother homeless. His little girl had her ears pierced at age two months so I just can't figure out how those people pick and choose the rules they want to call a sin and the rules they want to ignore. I have asked SDA's if those laws are still valid then how come they mix cloth and don't wear clothes with a blue fringe. They think I'm being way farout to wonder those things but those are also laws from the book of Lev.
Peperpat
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Username: Peperpat

Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 4:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen - I liked what you wrote concerning God awakening many Adventists. I am a little confused though, if the worship day was never changed in the NT from Saturday to Sunday, why do Christians go to church on Sunday? Are Sda correct then in saying the day was changed by Constantine? I know this must be very basic stuff to most of you, but I'm still studying :-) - Patti
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 88
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti,

I know that Colleen would be able to explain it better than I ever would, (and I'm a "never-been") but here's a link about Sunday. http://www.sdaoutreach.org/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx ...There are some great examples of early historical accounts of Christians gathering on Sunday.

:-) Leigh Anne
Peperpat
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Username: Peperpat

Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Leigh Anne, I have added that to my 'favorites'. My son sent me some dvds regarding the Sabbath and soon we will be discussing them....I need to know as much as possible so I dont sound uniformed. I am not the best when it comes to presenting my case! - Patti
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 89
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh man, you and me both Patti! I get so flustered and that leads to getting upset. I think the key is being able to anticipate the questions and having the answers quick enough that it sounds natural. Eventually it'll come naturally without having to even think about it.

In the past I've done some studying on Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and it amazes me how much I learn about the Bible. You look up a strange or unbiblical doctrine, and then have to go find out why it's wrong or contradicts the scriptures. What a faith builder!

In a way it just makes me so ashamed for my laziness...

:-) Leigh Anne
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1434
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne, I've thought the same thing....I took so much in the Bible for granted. If I had the do-overs, however, I would argue less about these things. I would present my case, and leave it. I used to try to 'convince' him of my perspective, and that lead to him thinking I was angry rather than just recognizing my passion for the topic. I thought I had so much to teach him....haha. But he didn't really 'want' to learn anything from me. At this stage, who knows what he wanted. So, if you can learn to present your beliefs from a practical standpoint, not an emotional standpoint, even if the words are the same, and then leave it, I think that's better than appearing argumentative and creating an unsurmountable wall.

My experience, in hindsight.
Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 116
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti, I can recomend reading the book "Sabbath in Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff, it pretty much looks at all things related to the Sabbath and how it relates to the Christian.

In the beginning the Jews did not worship on the Sabbath. And there are some heavy proofs that Christians did indeed worship on Sunday from very early on.

Anyways I know that I worship God all week around, he is just so awesome that I cant contain me to only one day. I do meet with other Christians as often that I can, and on Sunday its a little easier to find someones to worship, pray, and read the word with.

Patti I pray that God may teach you about the Sabbath and keep you from any lies about it.
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 90
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

I agree with you and appreciate what you mean. I struggle with my own passionate nature and wish wish wish my husband would just "get it". This is where the Holy Spirit reminds me "Just let me take care of this one." So I pray. And learn.

I'm sorry that your husband didn't get to feel the freedom in Christ that you have. You never know though, you may have planted some real important seeds...

Leigh Anne
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne, I hope so if only for my son. I think it's too late for anything else.

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