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Peperpat
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Username: Peperpat

Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Arriving home from shopping today my husband and I found a glossy color magazine curled in our door handle. We didnt think much of it at first since we have recently moved into a new development and get lots of companies asking to sell us something or provide some service. Surprisingly, it was of a religious nature, but throughout its 31 pages I could not see what church/org it is affiliated with. My only clue was it contained an article written by Ellen White...at the bottom it described her only as "..a Christian educator, speaker, and author whose inspirational writings have been translated into 100 languages." Now perplexed I am assuming maybe a member from the SDA church I attended with my son (last month while he was visiting from out of state) brought it over...but, why not leave at least a card attached telling me who they were or where they were from? By the way the magazine is called 'Last Generation".
Helovesme2
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Post Number: 582
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last Generation is a magazine published last I knew by Hartland, a conservative (as in, it's usually looked on more favorably by the self-supporting movement in sdaism than say, the 'conference schools') Adventist Institute that includes a College, Sanitarium, and publishing business located in Virginia. If I recall correctly various of it's staff members used to publish articles in 'Our Firm Foundation' a number of years ago. No idea if they still do.

I received that magazine as a young teen, and dreamed of attending there. The Lord had other plans. :-)

Why hide the connection with SDAs indeed. Usually if affiliations must be hidden there is shame involved some way. Or deceit.

Blessings,

Mary
Peperpat
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Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's my feeling Mary, that anyone or any group that will not be open and honest about who they are are trying to deceive. I suppose they have a 'good reason' for the practice.

I attended 12 years of Catholic schooling, and had my own dreams, (as a pre-teen) of becoming a nun. Thankfully, the Lord had other plans for me as well! :-) -Patti
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 92
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess they've never read this passage:

2 Corinthians 4:2
"Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God"

Secrets = RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG!!

:-)

Raven
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Post Number: 523
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Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, secrecy and deceit is standard procedure for nearly all, if not all, SDA witnessing activities - whether it's the mainstream SDA's or the fringe, ultra-conservative groups.

At our Bible Study group last night, someone who was never an SDA showed us a magazine she and many others were given at a recent Women of Faith conference. There was absolutely no indication of what church it was affiliated with. However, the entire magazine was various excerpts from The Great Controversy and included the 2300 day prophecy chart. It did say it was taken from a book written by Ellen White, and I think they might have named the book. But that was the extent of the identification.

I've heard so much about these secret ways and I know the SDA church is not ashamed to say it's absolutely necessary so people won't be turned off too quickly to "the Truth", but this was my first exposure to actually holding it in my hands, and it was rather shocking.
Peperpat
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good reference Grace alone! - I must admit that even if I hadn't been studying SDA and learning so much, that this magazine alone would cause me some serious questions.

Raven, it reminds me of the answer my son gave me when I questioned about EGW: that I shouldnt worry about her too much now, that will come later. I know he is very sincere and wants to evangelize. (And I pray to God that this will not be a wedge between us.) There were other questions I asked of him as well that I did not think I was getting a true response, such as, did he believe other people were saved that were not SDA. Knowing as a mom how honest, intelligent and sincere he is as a man, it upsets me that this type of 'thinking' has won him over. - Patti

Pegg
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Username: Pegg

Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Raven!

I think I received the magazine you're talking about. It was a first for me, too. I recognized it immediately and searched and searched to find out where it came from. I was so disturbed that I kept it because I knew I should "do" something about it. I only just threw it out. I realized I don't know what to "do" and it was upsetting me to see it.

Yup! - I'm Still Searching!

Pegg
Jeremiah
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Post Number: 126
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I spent around 3 years living at Hartland, part of that time as a student. I know the people involved with LG magazine. I even handed it out door to door once!

They are very serious, dedicated people at Hartland... I enjoyed my time there. I'm REALLY glad I know what I know now, though, and would never go back!

I don't have anything personal against the people of Hartland, but they can't approve of where I stand now, and my conscience won't allow me to agree with their position.

Jeremiah
Peperpat
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Post Number: 21
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just went onto the Hartland website and found out something funny......it is located about 15 miles from my home. Perhaps the students go door to door......We moved from another state recently and had no idea this place even existed!
Jeremiah
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh then I probably am rather familiar with the area where you live. :-)

Yes that is the obvious explanation as to how you got a copy of LG magazine... Too bad you weren't there to meet them when they brought it. They would put you on their prayer list if they knew your story. :-)

Jeremiah
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 4399
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary, you completely summarized the Adventists' need to hide: "Usually if affiliations must be hidden there is shame involved some way. Or deceit."

The hiding is so deep and pervasive, that Adventists actually BELIEVE that it's a good thingóit's actually necessary to deceive people so they won't be turned off to truth before they have a chance to hear it. The interesting thing to me, from this perspective, is that they NEVER ask themselves why truth would be necessary to hide. It's an oxymoron.

Colleen
Snaggle
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Post Number: 5
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the topic of 'hiding', the Church that I attend is about to run a two night parenting seminar. Whilst the content is interesting and relevant to the community, the intent is somewhat misleading. I quote from the flyer sent to members of the Church...

"But one of the most important aspects of inviting people to a church event like this, is that the people who come, have the opportunity to meet and talk to people like us from our church. Ö So, I am urging you to attend, even if you know everything there is to know about parenting, for the express purpose of intentionally meeting and talking to some of the 200 people from our community that will attend these two nights. And as a bonus I think you'll learn something very useful as well. I'm looking forward to meeting some new people, and I hope you will be there too and enjoy some great conversations. Remember that this may be the first time a person has come into a church building, or they may have just come a few times to our previous parenting seminars. Whatever the situation we want to make it a positive and memorable experience for those who come!"

I have always felt uncomfortable with the adventist church running community seminars like this for the sole purpose of snaring another soul to the flock. Of course on the surface the Church appears normal, inviting, friendly, and Jesus-centric. It's not until months down the track that the various doctrines and EGW issue is gradually and carefully brought to the surface.

- Mike



Violet
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Post Number: 473
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are right they do think they are doing the right thing by deceiving the public. I was once there. Leo Scriven was one who would tell you that because the public has a bad idea about SDAs then you must not tell who you are. But now I clearly that God would never have anyone lie to tell His truth.
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 104
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violet you're absolutely right. I just found another one - Jesus was open and honest about what he taught.

John 18:19-21 19 Meanwhile, the high priest questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching.
20"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. 21Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said."

Neither Jesus or the disciples tried to "trick" anyone into coming to hear them. That would be a pretty sad let alone desperate way to get people to come to your church don't you think? And there's no question about it being devious!

Psalm 26:4
I do not sit with deceitful men,Nor will I go with pretenders.

Leigh Anne
Kbandrews
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a page right out of the old Amway (Scamway) manual. Get people to a meeting by any means necessary, and don't drag out the Amway name too early or risk scaring them off!

Amway finally got smart and changed their name to Quixtar. Maybe the SDA church can rehabilitate its image with a name makeover?
Jackob
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Username: Jackob

Post Number: 288
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Kbandrews,

The comparision with AMWAY is excellent. I don't expect SDA to change it's name, they protect people from knowing who they are by using health facilities as front-institutions to make contact and influence people. By them people are unknowingly brought in contact and under the influence of SDA church. Basing on the capital of trust gained in this way, the information is given one bit at a time, a clever tactic for manipulating people to agreeing with which they certainly will reject if presented from start.

Kbandrews, have you beein involved with Amway? You may have an experience which will be precious to share, coming from a group who practiced deception as SDA.
Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 587
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 6:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the board Kbandrews. I look forward to hearing more from you here on the forum!

Blessings,

Mary
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 1450
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember the first time someone gave me an amway presentation. Once I found out the name of the group, I was irritated they'd wasted my time. It was an acquaintance from graduate school who said she wanted to come talk to me about something, and the second time I talked to her about it when I mentioned I had asked my friends about amway, they became quite irritated because they have a 'professional' presentation based upon facts, and you can't trust someone else's opinion.

Interestingly enough, B fell for the amway scam because someone took him to his house who had lots of money selling the stuff. But he also believed a mobile home would appreciate in value.
Javagirl
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Post Number: 275
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The flip side to this:

My church sponsored a huge consignment sale this weekend at the civic center. (The sale web site and media ads mentioned our church, and that the sale would raise money for missions and the Barnabus fund.)

I signed up for the prayer team. We stationed ourselves at the exit and simply asked people if they would like prayer for themselves or a loved one. I was so blessed by the whole experience. God delivered boldness, and words to pray, I wasn't the least bit shy praying for strangers. Thats a miracle in itself from a former "reluctant public prayer". (Thanks Richard, for the marketplace evangelism DVD's. They helped inspire me too)

A while into it, I realized we weren't handing out any literature or inviting people to our church or outreach programs. I asked about that, and was told, "no, we are just praying for the people in our community". No bait and switch, no attempt to get others to come to our church, no donation requests, no hidden agenda. I was astounded by this. Just being His hands and feet and Love to these people. Just praying into their needs and requests. It was refreshing!

Lori
4excape@bellsouth.net
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 2727
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Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lori,
That sounds so exciting. Praying for pefect strangers and not having second thoughts about it. I would like to have been there with you.
God surely is awesome.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 4427
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Kbandrews! We're looking forward to hearing your story.

Jackob, you're right about Adventists hiding behind health careóthere's no need for them to alter their identity. That's a really good point. And Lori, I love the praying intitiative. Up front, out in the openóand I know what you mean about how surprising it is to be able to do this sort of thing after years of being embarassed by praying or talking about Jesus.

Colleen

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