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Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 343
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have any of you seen "V for Vendetta"? I'm not trying to promote the movie, but for myself it was pretty good and it had made way for me to ponder a few things.

During the movie, a character who is searching for truth, and who is being made aware of truth, asks this question:

"Dominic, I want to ask you something. I don't care if you answer. I just want to say this aloud. And I need to know that this question will not leave this office...If our own government was behind St. Mary's and Three Waters... If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost a hundred thousand people... Would you really want to know?"

Stephen and I were talking last night about some of our family. I have been corresponding with a person for a long time now...and finally got to the point where I realized that if we didn't deal with EGW then we were going to get nowhere. So I laid out 13 of the best contradictions to the Scriptures of hers. This was promptly dismissed. Akin to how on RS they were willing to debate everything under the sun even the nature of Christ...but when it got to Ellen - zip, that's enough, end of discussion.

I had a friend with me the day I stumbled across Dirk's site the first time. I shared with her what I had discovered, and she (granted at the time was dealing with alot of loss in her family) almost said those exact words to me. But the other way: "that even if it was true, she DIDN'T want to know". And another friend of mine is in that same camp. Don't tell her anything outside her paradigm because she really doesn't want to know.

So, I've just been wondering if any of you have come across this. I wonder if there are people who are just wired to "want to know" and those who "don't". Do any of you remember hearing the story, I think it might have been a sermon illustration, on how many of the regular German people lived very close to the camps during the war, and never really knew what was going on. I think that this would fall into the same area. It was probably easier to not know. And how many other atrocities happen when people turn a blind eye. All kinds of people get hurt and most of the time someone was close enough that they COULD HAVE known what was going on but didn't.

To take this a step further. Even in my own life there have been times when friends have been in a rough patch and I sensed it, but either didn't take the time to talk with them heart to heart. Now this may just be because they were having a bad day...but on a smaller plane...I'm the same because at the time I didn't really want to get involved.

Well, I don't know if this will make as much sense to you all...but in my head it seems to :-)
Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 144
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your post made me think, thanks.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 4469
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther, I have pondered exactly the same thing. Desiring or not desiring to know the truth seems to underly the overall direction people go in life. Not wanting to know the truth is a decision to live in denial, and denial takes one further and further from reality.

When a person doesn't want to knowówhether the Truth in question is, like you mentioned, the existence of war camps next door or a spouse's affair or a child's drug use or one's own emotional brokenness or the truth of the gospelówhatever the case, the "not knowing" actually creates a fantasy world. It never feels resolved; there's always anxiety and unnamed fears and even physical symptoms of deep distressóbut it's a fantasy world nonetheless.

The whole issue of "Adventism" is, similarly, a fantasy world. If a person ignores the cognitive dissonance and the spiritual darkness that emerges as one tries to make Adventism "work", one abandons himself to an illusion that he is "special", "right", spiritually (and morally and ethically) superior to other Christians, and ultimately condoned by God in a way superior to His love for others. One becomes in his own mind a "princess" or "prince" or a "victim" or an "authority" or whatever role suits him or her best.

I've often wondered why some people seem to have a fundamental desire to know what is true, and others don't. I've concluded that I can't answer that questions, but I can say that God is the One who places the awareness of truth before each person and awakens hearts to grapple with it. I believe that true "sanctification", growing in the Spirit after accepting Jesus, is closely related to submitting to knowing truth as the Holy Spirit reveals itótruth about God, truth about our own motives and warped views, truth about ouf defense mechanismsówhatever.

Conversely, growing in truth is also related to knowing when to become involved and when not to be. I can see why 1 Corinthians 2 says that the wisdom of men is foolishness to God, and true spiritual knowing is spiritually discernedónot discerned through feelings and pure cognition. Knowing how to embrace truth requires the awakening of the Holy Spirit.

Colleen

Jwd
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Username: Jwd

Post Number: 240
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So well put, Colleen.

Thomas Jefferson said:

"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."

Hearing the authentic Gospel truth is received with greater spontaneous joy by one who does not have to first deal with the collection of a life time of false teachings to be removed first. Some small bits remain, like dust, to cover the truth and thus tarnish it's brilliance, until totally cleared off, which takes time and effort.

I am deeply troubled over family and friends who, while embracing an intellectual belief in Christ as Saviour, give no evidence of His Lordship and exhibit no visible joy in their profession while the authentic Gospel truth shines bright for all who but look to "see." I am sadly reminded of Sir Isaac Newton's quote:

"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of TRUTH lay all undiscovered before me."

May God's Spirit of TRUTH, penetrate the darkened minds of all who honestly desire to see.

Jess
Belvalew
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Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 4:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There were times when I rather liked living in my SDA coccoon. Yet there were others when I was almost itching to see things from a different angle, just to see if that would confirm the facet I'd been living with.

I don't know, Jess, I think learning the real Gospel came at me like a rush -- a rush of joy, a rush of relief, gratitude, and agony knowing how much time I'd wasted living in my little coccoon. I do agree with you about being troubled about friends and family who seem so content to live with an intellectual knowledge of the Savior, and no real drive to dig any deeper. I think that stems from EGW saying that we will be held accountable for every bit of truth we have had made available to us and have not used. That is the sadness of living in a me-centered religion. I was content with staying in the shallows until the true Gospel came my way. I want to drink deep, dive deep, wash in the deep pure waters of grace. None of that is frightening of threatening any more because my Savior is with me through it all.
Insearchof
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Username: Insearchof

Post Number: 83
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 7:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Esther,

I think I understand what you mean. To be brutally honest, sometimes I wish I had never begun to question my long-held SDA beliefs. I am still struggling to find my way and I feel certain that this will last for some time.

In so many ways it would have been easier if I had never started down this path. On the other hand, the Bible is a totally new book to me. It reads so differently now. My wife and I are, in some ways at least, meeting a Jesus we never knew.

Here is another thing I am discovering, also...Christians at those 'Sunday-keeping' churches are just as sincere and desirous to know Jesus and live thier lives to his honor and glory as any SDA I ever met. This is totally different than what we were led to believe as Adventists!

By the way...I thought 'V for Vendetta' was a most excellent movie!

InSearchOf
Jwd
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Username: Jwd

Post Number: 241
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like beautiful fresh fruit, with it's symetry and color and individual Creator-designed shape and texture; the Bible is so fresh and beautiful, UNTIL we press it through the colander of Ellen White and 28 "official" proof-texting fundamental interpretations. Then it becomes mush, having lost it's beauty, lustre, shape, color; it is canned, a label is attached showing 3 angels, and it becomes Adventist mush! No wonder once we return to the fresh fruit of God's Word by itself, it shows a fresh beauty we've been away from so long, that we forgot what it looked like and tasted like, and it comes to our consciousness as brand new Miracle Food; aka, the Bread of Life.

We are God's elect, justified by God Himself with no one to condemn because Christ was condemned for us. Rom 8:33,34.

"Praise Him, Praise Him, Jesus our blessed Redeemer"
Esther
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Username: Esther

Post Number: 344
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

InSearchOf, You said:

Here is another thing I am discovering, also...Christians at those 'Sunday-keeping' churches are just as sincere and desirous to know Jesus and live thier lives to his honor and glory as any SDA I ever met. This is totally different than what we were led to believe as Adventists!

I keep getting comments from family members about how great the SDA church is, how beautiful it's teachings, and how perfect the people...how committed they are, and so on and so forth. I remember having those same realizations that the "Christian" world was just as reliable and committed as the Adventist world I was leaving.
When I bring this up though, it's only met with disbelieve. Why wouldn't I want to stay connected to the greatest church on the planet? :-)

I also had those moments of wishing I never knew. Those have slowly melted away along with the "ellen tapes", and fear of doing anything on the Sabbath. Amazingly, God has replaced those fears with assurance in Him. Keep up the searching...it's well worth it :-)
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 4479
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So very true, Esther and Jess. It's well worth itóPraise Him, our Blessed Redeemer!

Colleen
Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 46
Registered: 1-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Esther, for starting this thread and to all of you who have responded. What a blessing to read your comments and praises! For many years I was just incredibly hungry spiritually. There was no inner peace, no rest, and I grew quite accustomed to the feeling. I never praised God because, quite honestly, I didn't feel like it. After a spiritual detour that lasted many years, the Lord led me to come clean over serious theological flaws which prevented me from trusting Him fully. It meant leaving the church I loved, but I was dying slowly, and it was absolutely miserable.

I thank God for His patience. I can tell you that I never expected the peace that has come into my life. Now, I find myself praising God in my silent prayers throughout the day. Something has really changed at a level that is totally beyond my comprehension.
It's good to just trust the Lord. Truth is a Person!
Thanks again for the great thread!
Bob

Helovesme2
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Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 625
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob wrote:
"Truth is a Person."

What an awesome reality this is!!! How wonderful to realise that we get to live in relationship to Jesus, not just in an objectively intellectual or subjectively emotional 'truth'.

What a mighty God we serve!!!!

Blessings,

Mary
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 4534
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Bob, for that powerful reminder: "Truth is a Person!"

All we believe and experience must be subjected to this One Truth.

Colleen

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