| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2002  |
It kind of reminds me, Aliza, about a truly Christ-centered friend in Adventism who is kind of like a spiritual parent to me. At one point in the period I described above, my friend suggested researching or searching out what place Ellen White should have in the church. My friend's intention was to likely come to some kind of reconciliation with EGW, or a kind of enlightenment on how much to use and to disregard. At the point it was suggested, though, I never responded to the question because I'd already left EGW behind (without really focusing on doing so, do you know what I mean?). I've wondered later what would've happened if I had searched it out and come to the conclusion that EGW had no place in the church. My friend is very honest and probably would've been hit hard by the shock. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2734 Registered: 3-2004  |
My processing out of the SDA church was very slow and started more than 30 years ago. The first thing I am aware of was I got very tired of hearing EGW quoted by the pastors instead of the Bible. God used my 12 step program to teach me how much God loves me. Those were things I did not learn in all my SDA schooling. After I quit going to church regularly after my divorce, I quit reading the Bible because everything I read in the OT really scared me. It was not until I got a computer and "accidentally" found the website about EGW by Dirk Anderson that I even began to wonder more about EGW. I remember reading some things there and then conveniently forgot about it. When I moved from VA to NV and finally got in my own house I clicked on the EGW website. At that time I had already spoken to the SDA pastor about being rebaptized(my name was taken off the church books after my divorce because of my sporadic attendance). That is when God brought my attention to the EGW site. I read every thing there and decided I could not go back to the SDA church. I went to all the links and read them also and even wrote to a couple of the former SDA pastors. They answered me so nicely and they answered all my questions. I like to say that my 12 step program cleared the SDA cobwebs out of my brain by teaching me how much God loves me. That cleared the way for everything I read on the website. God took a hold of my heart, mind, and soul and I am so happy and grateful. I am one of those people who does not have close family relatives who are still SDA. All my close family are unchurched SDA. They have not condemned me for leaving the SDA church. One of my brothers studied his way out of the SDA church and had his name taken off the books long before I learned about EGW. After all before I left I went dancing every weekend and did not keep the Sabbath, and neither does any of my family. The close SDA friends I have in VA have not condemned me and are happy that I am reading and studying the Bible. God has been so good to me and those I love. One thing I am so glad I learned about God is that He is so AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Freeindeed Registered user Username: Freeindeed Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2006 |
I first started questioning SDA beliefs after the loss of an immediate family member back in the mid 90's. After coming to terms with that I began to search for answers to other questions. 2001 was a big questioning year as I came across a few websites, but I felt guilty for questioning since I was employed by the church. During the past two years everything has been put on the table and tested. I don't have all of the answers, but praise God for the MANY different ways he got my attention over the past 13 or so years. As of this summer I am no longer employed by the church and will never go back. My family and I are free even though we are facing the attempted guilt and shame trips from friends and family. We are looking for a church and living in the freedom of the true Gospel. Already we can say it has been worth it. We know that God will take care of us, even though we're not sure how yet. Anyway, I just had to get on and let you all know. Freeindeed | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2005 |
For Brian3 and me, it started out trying to prove a former classmate wrong! Someone told me that Tesa and Arthur Beem had left ìtheî church and that Tesa had posted a letter on the internet explaining why. Tesa and Arthur were classmates from academy and college days. We'd never known anyone who ìleft ëtheí churchî. We knew some who might only go when their parents were in town or on special occasions, but none that officially left and actually had a reason for doing so. Naturally there had to be flaws in their reasoning, so I did a search for Tesa's letter and read it. Then I sent it on to Brian3. Separate from one another, we read the letter and started looking up the texts quoted within. Wow! She actually made sense. We had some of the same questions/issues that she did. Of course all this was done pretty much in secret from the other because we just knew we had to be wrong in our questioning. After all Ellen said this would happen in "end times". Finally we started talking to each other about what we were reading and studying and that made it easier because we weren't alone in our questioning. However, we were still going to the SDA church. Our son (G) was still in an SDA school. We were still very involved in the church and the school. As with many of you, it was our whole world ñ our very identity. The last straw was the first Sabbath of July 2005. We were in Sabbath School and the discussion was on the fundamental beliefs of the church and the baptismal vows. The head pastor was actually in class that day. The teacher asked how many would be baptized now - as an adult - if they had to acknowledge belief and support of all the fundamental beliefs of the church beforehand. I think maybe two hands went up. One man actually said he was ìtrickedî into being baptized. The pastor said nothing! I donít even remember the rest of the discussion. My mind was already out the door. That was the last week we attended an SDA church. We had gotten to the point where we were living a lie. The things we no longer believed in or supported far outweighed the things we did believe in and support. It took us several months to actually request that our names be removed from the books Ö still havenít heard an answer on that yet Ö but in our hearts and minds we are removed and thatís what really matters. In some ways it has been a really long year. In other ways, I canít believe it has been only a year. G went to public school for the first time last year (5th grade). He went from a Pre-K to 12 school of about 300 students to a 5th/6th grade school with 800. That was interesting, but he thrived and not only thrived, witnessed! That was awesome!! Of course in all the 800 students, he had to discuss communion with one who happened to be an SDA and the SDA kid jumped all over him for participating in communion without being baptized! We have visited probably 25 churches (conservatively) in the last year. Several we left in mid service due to the atmosphere and/or and what was or was not being preached. Like many of you, our family and friends have pretty much disappeared. If they havenít disappeared entirely, the relationship is strained, to say the least. But through it all, God was there. He has been more real in our lives in the past two years than ever before. When I think of all the ways that I blasphemed His holy name in my ignorance of His true Word and my laziness in believing what was being spoon-fed me by the SDA church, it truly amazes me that He was not only waiting for me but pursuing me. To quote one of my favorite authors Ö ìGod is awesome!î Kim | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2298 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Ardyj and Aliza, It is good meeting you. I hope to learn more from you as time goes on. Kim, your story is very interesting. I too have been told that by leaving Adventism it is proof the EGW was a true prophit because she said at the end people who knew the truth would leave and turn on the SDA's. That is a really wharped teaching. Reminds me of a book I read around 30 years ago called, "Cathc 22". Interesting discussion here. I thought that to partisipate in communion one should already be a baptized Christian. In the Lutheran and the Epispapalian I believe that is the accepted understanding of communion. The past several weeks I have been attending an Epispalian church. I borrowed a Book of Common Prayer from the pastor so during the week I could get a bit more acquainted with the format of the service and the words. | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2005 |
Susan, It may be that it is routine for someone to be baptized before they participate in communion, but from my understanding the only requirement for either baptism or participating in communion is to acknowledge that salvation is through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. G understands that. He is wanting to be baptized. The only holdback has been that we really haven't had a church "home" where there are believers around him to love him, support him and hold him accountable. If he were too young to understand the concept and the meanings behind the symbols, we wouldn't let him participate. Kim | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2302 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kim, What are some of the various churches you've visited? What are your reasons for not staying with them? I recently attended a local Baptist church as it was on the marque (sp?) they were having a series on prayer. The first two lectures were great but I didn't go back after the 3rd because the minister giving the talks went on and on about how we should never address our prayers to Jesus or the Holy Spirit but that the only proper prayer format was to begin the prayer to "Our Father who art in heaven" then end the prayer, "In Jesus name, Amen". The preacher never even mentioned the Holy Spirit in prayer. I decided it was too far off track with my understanding so I did not return. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 |
Greetings everyone! I am new here and still trying to understand the thread/forum business. This topic totally amazes me, I wish every "Former" would answer this question and then publish a book with all the comments in it. The top SDA's scholars can debate theology forever, but they cannot say a word about our experiences. As a young new Elder, standing in the back of the church, patiently waiting to go up on the platform with the pastor, (Oct 2004) I said, "So, who are you going to vote for?" He looked at me with wide eyes and said, "I have never voted in my entire life!" His wife standing nearby said, "Why, I haven't either!" They gave me some EGW references and told me to study, that was the end of the conversation because it was time to go up front. When I got home I looked up FCE p.475, She says that when we vote, we become partakers in sin with those we put into office! This blew my mind. I was raised an SDA, 36 years old, and never heard of this. My entire life I had swayed back and forth from legalism to libralism and back to legalism, but thought I had finally found the "balance" in all the EGW legal requirements. But this for some reason broke the scale. Since I have been voting all my adult life I figured once again my salvation was in check. For the next month I cried out ot God and begged him to either let me go, or give me assurance that I am his. What happened then you can only believe if you've experienced it. I read the new testement with passion, underlining and highlighting anything and everything that gave me a morsel of hope in salvation. At the end of about a month, I realized that my theology had changed. I realized that there was a new covenant and the old had passed away. I realized ceremonial and dietary laws were a shadow of things to come and the reality is found in Christ! I realized that The Bible did not distinguish between parts of the law. It Stood as one, and it was fulfilled as one. I realized that there was a severe problem with the prophet that I was raised to believe spoke for God. At this point I decided to get online to see if anyone out there had the same impression. Man, was I surprised! I was not alone! I read for months straight. Lots of other issues that I thought I would eventually understand were addressed. Like wine is really just grape juice. Jewelry. God tricking the 1844 movement just to test them. I could write a whole book on this one. But to make a long story short, within about a years time I had left the SDA church and joined a local Non denominational church who boldly teaches that our salvation can be found in only Christ and Christ alone! Praise God! My wife has a strong testimony here http://www.ellenwhite.org/testimonycs.htm | ||
| Fbasten Registered user Username: Fbasten Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 |
For me, 1979 was a pivotal year. I was at the time, a literature evangelist of eight years experience, an avid Bible student. I also read widely, with some of my favourites being the journals and sermons of John Wesley (especially his ì44 Sermonsî ñ taught me the gospel so thoroughly, before I read ìSteps to Christî), the writings of Luther on Romans and Galatians and St. Augustine ìOn the Trinity.î It was during this time I began to question the traditional SDA view of things. My mind was blown out when it hit me that Rev.3:10 referred to the early Christians experiencing the last day events of Rev13-18 in their own day, and seeing it through to the second coming. That text laid the ground in my mind for articles in the Review by Don Neufeld who suggested that the 2300 days could have had another application outside of 1844 if things were shaping up for the Second Coming to occur in the times of the early church. ìGreat,î I thought, ìthere are others who are thinking along the same lines as I am, and they are in places of influence in the church.î Then came the tapes from Des Ford on the AAF meeting which started the whole train of events down to Glacier View. Again, it was great to see other minds ploughing the same field I was pottering around in. But it came to a rude surprise to me that there was a concerted opposition to this type of thinking. But time has exposed the strength of that dedication in SDA circles against that type of thinking illustrated in the writings of Neufeld, Ford, and my thoughts on Revelation 3:10. So I just kept pottering in the field. But my position only got stronger the more I worked on it, re-examining my ideas. Eventually, my position on Revelation 3:10 seemed so correct, I put it down on paper, did some additional research on it, and convinced me of the correctness of my position. That paper, found at http://www.2300days.com/Revelation3_10.html outlines my thoughts, and it shows how absolutely pivotal this text is for the demise of SDA explanation of Old and New Testament prophecies. This paper taught me the only way to gain a correct understanding of the prophecies was to see what they would have meant to the first audience, whom Jesus says, were to experience the Second Coming in their day. But this view is utterly intolerable to the SDA view, as is documented at that page. This then opened up a whole new area of the unknown. Instead of having prophetic understanding neatly wrapped and boxed, they suddenly became new again. What did they mean to the original audience?? And so the journey began. Many years down from 1979, I feel as though I am always just beginning, no matter how many advances I make. But that is to be expected. | ||
| Fbasten Registered user Username: Fbasten Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 |
Susan Wrote to Kim, It may be that it is routine for someone to be baptized before they participate in communion, but from my understanding the only requirement for either baptism or participating in communion is to acknowledge that salvation is through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. G understands that. He is wanting to be baptized. The only holdback has been that we really haven't had a church "home" where there are believers around him to love him, support him and hold him accountable. If he were too young to understand the concept and the meanings behind the symbols, we wouldn't let him participate. Kim Could I offer another view? The command in Matthew 28 to preach the gospel to the world and baptise the believers is a command that Jesus gave to his disciples. Who is a disciple? An ordained minister or a believer? If if means an ordained minister, then the gospel commission only applies to ordained ministers. If it means a believer then the gospel commission applies to all believers. This means that all believers have the authority to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. So if you believe the gospel commission applies to believers, then you have the authority to baptize your own son!! Think about it. what a lovely thing to do!! Make it a special occasion with friends and family etc. Do it on a camping weekend perhaps. It will be a baptism that he will remember forever. And he cannot confuse it as a baptism into a church, as many churches use it. It is a baptism into Christ and Christ alone. Something to ponder Frank Basten | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4499 Registered: 12-2003  |
Frank and Tim, thank you for sharing your stories. Tim, your experience with the non-voting pastor who spurred you on to the study of the New Testament is amazing. God SO deals with each person individually! He knows what would tip the scales for each one of us, and He makes sure that what needs to happenóhappens. How amazing! I'm also overwhelmed by your reading the NT and discovering, on your own, that there is a new covenant that replaced the old, that the food law are obsolete and the "split law" theory is bunk. God is so faithful! Frank, what an amazing journey for you, also, to go from literature evangelist to a reader of the writings of the historic faith heroes. I've come to believe that God deals with us each individually not only because we are different from each other but also because the way He brings us to Himself is part of our preparation for the work He gives us to do. He is amazing. Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2006 |
Colleen, Your welcome, I would like to add that the study I did was lead entirely by the Holy Spirit. I don't know why he lead me out but I just know he did. I asked our (non-voting) pastor about the covenants and he said he would answer those questions after he received the info he ordered from the conference. I asked him, "You can't just use your Bible and a concordance?" He said he could but he didn't have time for that. Once he got his stuff from the conference he told me I was wrong and nobody believed in the covenants this way. If I wanted to pursue these beliefs I would have to start my own church! Well that gave me incentive to see what other churches taught. So that Sunday, I went to a non-denominational church and after worship they had a new class that was starting that day, and the topic was THE COVENANTS!!! I soon learned that the SDA's were the unique ones and all the other churches simply understand it the way it is written. All I can say is Praise God!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2749 Registered: 3-2004 |
Welcome Frank and Tim, I am always amazed at how God leads each individual. He knows just where you need the help to understand Him and His word, not that we will ever understand Him, but at least we can learn what salvation is. Welcome to FAF. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4501 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have been amazed over and over again at how God personally teaches people using only the Bible and a concordance, and they all come up with essentially the same thing: the biblical gospel! I had a phone call about two or three weeks ago from a man on the East coast who did not have internet access. He was a generational Adventist, and for years he had been struggling with Adventism. He had no idea of the growing numbers of people out here who have left Adventism or of the resources available. He said that about three years ago he heard a woman on the radio who was former Jehovah's Witness who had a counter-cult ministry. He remembered that she listed Adventism among the Christian cults, but he couldn't remember her name. He told me that two remarkable things happened. First, not too long ago, he had been praying, struggling with issues of Adventism, and he said as he prayed, he had a very clear and powerful thought: "Come unto Me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." On the tail of that verse came a brand new thought he had never heard anywhere before: My rest is in Jesus, not in a day. I told him that all of us who had left SDAism for the sake of Jesus had also come to that same realization. He said that hearing me say that was electrifying: he felt God had confirmed his understandingóand he had never known before that other people had that same understanding. Then he said that a few days before calling us, he had prayed and asked God to allow him to hear that former JW again. He wanted to hear and know more of what she had to say. He said that three days later, he heard her on the same stationófor the first time in several years. He said this time she did not speak of Adventism at all, but when the broadcast was over, he called the station. They gave him her name and phone number (which he also gave me). He called the lady and told her his background and struggle. She gave him our number and told him to call us. She told him, "They will help you." Now, we do not know this lady and have never heard of her. How she got our number, we're not sureóprobably the internet. Further, this lady told him (and I'm using HER label of "cult"): "Adventism is the worst of the cults. It is the hardest to leave because it has so much truth mixed with error." So, he called us, and we put him in touch with Dale Ratzlaff from whom he ordered books, and we're putting him on the Proclamation mailing listó I say all this to illustrate the continually amazing fact that God teaches unrelated people the same Bible truths when we submit ourselves to what the Word teaches without trying to "control" it. He also brings about connections and help and support in just the way and at just the time when it is needed. Colleen | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 346 Registered: 5-2004 |
All these stories have just brought tears to my eyes and goose bumps to my arms  It is amazing how God brings each of us to Him in just the right way for us. Praise Him for His goodness! | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 700 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow! What a wonderful half hour all of you have given me on this thread. God is so good. He gives a small taste of Heaven knowing there will be many more "stories" to share and hear there. Is there any question how much praising we will give Him in eternity! Through your sharing, He wraps His arms around me and gives me richness and assurance that money could never buy. I am right in the middle of sending out our "Dear SDA church" letter. Your stories give me pause to give Him thanks for my SDA background. My background of bondage gives God's amazing grace a clarity that redeems all the years of darkness. Give me Jesus! Denise | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2004 |
Denise, May God guide you as you write your letter. Your letter will bring a peace of mind that comes from following as the Holy Spirit leads you. Knowing you through this forum, I trust that God will use you, and your letter as a witness to His glory and to those who receive it. Please do not be discouraged if some do not, or will not understand. I will pray for them as I pray for you and yours during this time of courage, witness, and opportunity. Thank-you for being a willing vessel for truth and understanding and may those in your influence continue to see the love of Christ through you. Courage and Grace, Randy | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 281 Registered: 10-2002 |
The former JW lady said, "Adventism is the worst of the cults. It is the hardest to leave because it has so much truth mixed with error." Wow. It really makes me cry inside to hear this and understand it, because I know it's true. If there were no truth in Adventism, it would be easier to leave. The great mixture makes it so much harder. I feel God's heart weeping about this. | ||
| Jman24540 Registered user Username: Jman24540 Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2006  |
Hi my name is Josh, while I try to avoid labels as much as is possible, I am a former SDA by about 2 years. I was an ordained elder in the organization and was the associate pastor for about 2 years before leaving the church. I'm a 2nd generation, K-Sophmore year at Southern Adv. Univ in Adventist education. I preached in many SDA churches, but I always knew something was missing. There was something of the life of God missing from not only my life, but my Church. My wife and I began having marital problems, and because my church had no one qualified, a previous SDA pastor of my church recommended one of his friends who was a pastor of a non-denominational church for counseling, I decided by what I now know to be the leadin of the Holy Spirit to attend a church service on Sunday before meeting this pastor face to face. When i walked into the church I was awe struck. Having been in SDA church all my life, I was dumbfounded, there was the most beautiful praise service going on, people were raising their hands, tears streaming down almost every face it seemed. Little prayer circles around the room, the pastor speaking words as if he knew I were there and why I had come. It was most amazing! How in the world could these people be so close to God and yet so far from the truth? (or what I thought was truth)....Thus began a journey of study and prayer, and then Baptism in the Holy Spirit at a men's retreat, and life has never been the same again. I spend a great deal of time on the SDA forum on myspace.com trying to talk to other SDAs, while most of them ridicule me and attack me, I have made several contacts on the side of people struggling with the same issues I did. I just minister the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his sufficient grace to them in the power of the Holy Spirit and pray for divine appointments! | ||
| Jman24540 Registered user Username: Jman24540 Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2006 |
Sorry, still figuring out this forum and how it works...I posted before I was finished typing...so anyways, my marriage found healing, I found victory over things in my life, and I wondered how could this feel so much like God if it is a counterfeit, so I began to study more and pray more, and it's amazing how when you read the NT with a simple prayer for Spirit-led understanding, how alive the Bible comes! How I began to see who I am in Christ... Praise the Lord!...How Jesus is my all in all, how it's not about trying but about trusting. It's not about doing but about what He has done! How the work is complete! How my salvation is secure, How I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit and not the Sabbath, how the remnant is the Church of grace, not the SDA church..How all of this became so clear.. Now it is amazing the liberty that I've found, I didn't plumit into a life of Godlessness after leaving the SDA church and many said would happen. I'm crucified with Christ, and now I no longer live at all, but Christ lives in me! Thank you Lord! I only wish I knew of others closer to me that have experienced this.. How can you find local Formers to talk with? |
