| Author | Message | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 656 Registered: 8-2004  |
Caught a TV program called 'Stop Chasing Shadows' this evening. It was such a joy to be reminded of the Substance that the old covanent shadows point to! The transcript is here and worth reading, though I liked watching it even better. Blessings, Mary | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks for sharing Mary! I enjoyed reading that. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2098 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Mary for posting that. On the same subject, J. Vernon Mcgee preached his Sunday sermon today on the same topic--it was great. It can be listened to here: http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Thru_the_Bible_Sunday_Sermon/archives.asp?bcd=2006-10-1 He blamed the Seventh-Day Baptists for the doctrine of the Sabbath rather than SDAs. Stan | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 657 Registered: 8-2004 |
 That's interesting Stan. Seventh Day Adventists got the sabbath doctrine from the Seventh Day Baptists. If I recall correctly Rachel Preston Oaks was the SDB believer who confronted Joseph Bates the Adventist about it. | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2000 |
Here is a great sermon from J. Vernon McGee entitled "Law and Grace" It's very good. He addresses Adventism and defines Reformed Theology in a clear definitive manner which helps put things in perspective. Listen to the sermon whether or not you subscribe to Reformed Theology. http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Thru_the_Bible_Sunday_Sermon/archives.asp?bcd=2006-9-17 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4696 Registered: 12-2003  |
Mary, thank you so much for posting the link to that sermon transcript. It is so interesting. I was especially sturck by the five signs of legalistic contrasted with Grace-based congregations: Legalism-based 1. Judgmental, critical 2. Maintain appearances 3. Inter-personal distance 4. External righteousness 5. Underlying depression Grace-based 1. Acceptance, desire to help 2. Honesty, transparency 3. Inter-personal closeness 4. Christ's righteousness 5. Release, liberty, joy A really good sermon! Bmorgan, thanks for that link to McGee's sermon on law and grace. I've listened to it, and it is very interesting. McGee is so clear in his explanations and insights. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2855 Registered: 3-2004  |
Mary, Thank you so much for that link. I took the time to read it tonight and I see myself as I used to be. Used to be are the operative words, because I am not that way any more. It was very good. Diana | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2099 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Bmorgan. I think McGee is a Calvinist if I remember correctly, at least he is a five pointer on TULIP, but I will have to listen to that sermon. Stan | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2006  |
This is very cool. Our church is doing a series right now called "Orthodoxy on Fire" Same idea, it focuses on the original gospel and shows how Christianity changed it over the years. I think this movement is a lot bigger than we can imagine. It gives a whole new meaning to "Come out of her my People..." Doesn't it? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 817 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ok...this is weird. Mary...the address at the bottom of the transcript is Tyler, Texas. I have a little story for you. I have SDA relatives in TylerÖand we visited them not long ago and my brother-in-law (who is a sweet person) was visiting churches with his SDA pastor because they know something is wrong with the SDA church but instead facing the truth, they are rationalizing it away and hoping to change it from within. So they are visiting the ìSunday churchesî to see what they are doing right and hoping to incorporate it into the SDA church. (I hate to burst their bubble but until the SDA preach the GospelÖit ainít gonna happen!) Anyway, they visit some church and a pastor nails a bible to the cross in the service and says the Law was nailed to the crossÖand he said some people in town (alluding to the SDA) are still preaching that the Law is still in effect, etc. Oh! The SDA were offended big time. Anyway, I am sure this was the same church! Praise God for opening someones eyes to the dangers of SDAism! It is really refreshing because in my own family, just a few weeks ago, my brother (SDA) and his wife (non-SDA) are arguing over what day to go to church. So my s-i-l calls both the Sunday pastor, and the SDA pastor to ask what she should do. Of course the SDA pastor hasn't the time to return her call but the Sunday pastor tells her she should go with her husband. Obviously this pastor has no idea what he is telling her. He is basically saying she should dump her security in Christ and put her faith in a day all for her husband! So she tells my brother...well, I'll rest on Saturday, but I won't go to church...the commandment says only to rest! So she hasn't done a darn thing on Saturday since then...she said she is waiting for him to get tired of it...she has stayed in bed all day! But back to my point...I am sure these are the same people and the SDA are up in arms there in Tyler, Texas. I sent them a note of encouragement and I will see what I get back from them!!!! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 212 Registered: 6-2006  |
Pheeki, the nailing the law to the cross sermon - that's amazing! And especially on the day the SDA's were visiting. Sounds like a message to me! While it seems harsh, it sure gets the point across. I hope that your relatives got stirred up enough to question the pastor and spend some time studying about it. The Lord works in mysterious ways, doesn't he?? Mary, thanks for sharing that sermon with us! I love that kind of stuff. It helps me especially with equipping our kids, and hopefully hubby too. Leigh Anne | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2102 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pheeki, We were members of the Tyler, Texas SDA church in the late 1950's--thanks for the interesting insight. Stan | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 818 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am sure it hasn't changed much. Same little church!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2857 Registered: 3-2004 |
Pheeki, That is a wonderful story about the Tyler, TX SDA church and the sunday church. I am sitting here smiling at the dear pastor's action and the response of the SDAs, when the pastor nailed the Bible to the cross. You are so right, it is not what is done during the church service, it is not what one does, but who one knows and that one is Jesus. About your SIL, God bless her soul. She is resting every 7th day. I will pray for them. God is surely awesome. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 819 Registered: 1-2003 |
ok. I sent that article to my s-i-l yesterday and my brother called me up and screamed at me this morning. I felt terrible. I think it was misplaced rage at his situation but still...I guess I overstepped my bounds. I felt that my s-i-l was being confused by SDA teaching and when I saw that article, I thought it was timely and probably meant for her. But WOW! I got totally attacked. However, when asked if I believed what was in that article...I didn't back down. I was told by my brother that it was from Satan...then after discussing it he did say he thought it was 98% true but that 2% was lies so it made the whole thing a lie and his church was not a legalistic church, even though he admitted overall the SDA church fit the description. It was terrible. I ended up apologizing to him and telling him I wouldn't ever do that again and he said..."Oh now we have to discuss it...it's out of the box!" So he will be forcing me to have bible studies with him and his wife, which could be a good thing but sometimes he acts so crazy...I don't really feel the need to be screamed at. I said, "Can't you guys discuss different views openly in your house?" And I said, "if your church is as you say, it should stand up to scrutiny." Basically, I was the scapegoat for problems he and his wife have been having. He feels he is being persecuted by her for his sabbath keeping. I tried to tell him that I didn't have an issue with keeping the Sabbath, what I had an issue with is telling others in Christ that they were taking the mark of the beast if they didn't! I feel terrible. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 266 Registered: 12-2004 |
Pheeki, I don't know all the details and complexities of your situation, however I can fully appreciate how you feel. Often times they shoot the messenger when they don't want to hear or deal with the message. Although you sustained the barrage of that reaction, your witness will have to make them think. I would avoid any confrontational Bible study as it is fruitless and will only antagonize your relationship further. My motto is "You share good news, you don't argue about it". If a Bible study cannot be done in an environment of civility and respect, I don't think the Holy Spirit has finished His job of preparing their minds. Please remember it is not your job to convict, convert or convince, that is the work of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to witness to others what God has done for us. I am sorry you got caught in the crossfire, but obviously there is more going on behind the scene, and yes the Lord does work in mysteries ways. Peace and Courage, Randy PS. In our house, a quiet corner and a chocolate bar sometimes helps. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 820 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks for the encouraging words. I actually felt a real sense of dispair after I hung up with him...I thought...what does it all matter anyway? Sometimes I think it would be easier to be nothing! But I cannot give up my belief in God so I guess I will be labeled a "Sunday Keeper". The devil has really done a number on a lot of Christians. My brother tried to tell me I was trying to divide his family...Once again, misplaced blame...he can blame Ellen White and SDAism for that! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 658 Registered: 8-2004 |
Oh Pheeki your brother's reaction sounds so familiar!! Hang in there. Praying, Mary | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2006  |
Pheeki: I can relate to that, that your brother is letting his anger out on you, I have experienced something similar when exposing SDA to some of their members. Remember they are influenced by doctrines of Demons. "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3. Don't be afraid, you are safe in Jesus, praying for your brother, that God may work in him and show him the truth about SDA and rescue him from that organization. Jesus is the Sabbath, Life, Truth and the Way! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 821 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks to everyone. I have since spoken to his wife and she was very grateful for the article. She talked to me for a long time and she said, at first when they got married that he was like, "Sabbath, no big deal...I can go to church anywhere." Now he is starting to try to impose Sabbath rules on their house hold. He says he recently got re-convicted of the Sabbath. I say it was coming all along! The old bait and switch. It happened here at work to a nurse I know who married an SDA...first it was like, no big deal...and she went to church with him and when she didn't convert (in fact she told him she wanted nothing to do with the church- coincidentally, it's the same church my brother attends here in Arlington, Texas that is supposed to be so different from "other" SDA churches!)it did matter to him after all! My s-i-l told me that my brother has a book called "What Adventist believe" and she tried to read it when they first got married and he wouldn't let her. He said, "A lot of that stuff is crazy." Why is he so ashamed? Interesting, isn't it. I believe it is a demonic stronghold...the anger that comes out when it is challenged is incredible. Same when I was processing out...my husband too would get sooooo angry if we discussed soul sleep or the sabbath...it was terrible. We simply don't talk about it now. I feel for mixed marriages...I'm in one! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1486 Registered: 7-2003 |
Mixed divorces aren't much better as the kids still have to battle the conflict. Bryant also got 'reconvicted' after a 5 day seminar at his church on 'defending' the sabbath last fall. Prior to that, he wouldn't go on a Sunday, but he wasn't quite as condemning of me for going. It's an interesting thing to watch the tap dance around other 'sins'. As long as one keeps the sabbath, it's almost like they're no big deal. | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2006 |
i am thankful that i made my stance known on the sda thing before getting married. i knew my husband for years prior to getting married and he never was devout or a practicing adventist in any way. it was just the network of friends that kept him in touch with the whole culture of it. that, and his devout family. but i did sense the strong hold and eerie doctrines of the church and how it encompassed his life growing up and his family today. even though i didn't really understand it until now, i knew i wanted no part of that, and told him so. i just pray he doesn't get sucked back in to it. i feel for you melissa. i can't imagine my young children being exposed to that by one of their own parents. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 822 Registered: 1-2003 |
The bad part is...when I tell my husband that I got yelled at for defending our freedom in Christ...I sense smirking. I think he agrees with my brother...though he doesn't live the SDA way. I was the Sabbath enforcer. I was the worship enforcer. I was the vegetarian enforcer. He just went along with it...and now that he has the chance to be the enforcer...he doesn't really care. I have never voluntarily seen my SDA husband open a bible...to have any kind of personal bible study. He does write Spiritual music, I guess you can count that...but that is infrequent. He has no testimony to give about being saved...I didn't either until I was liberated in August 2002! The Holy Spirit lifted the veil quite abruptly! All I can do is pray. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4712 Registered: 12-2003 |
Pheeki, I'm so sorry. I'm sure the startling hostility of your B-I-L was compounded becuase of the spiritual disunity in your own home. Praying now for your husband... Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2002  |
Pheeki, I'm praying for you & your whole family. The "smirk" reminds me of how I used to feel when I was an Adventist and I saw Christians who were passionately in love with Jesus. During my years around CUC in Maryland, I went through a long struggle with philosophy and faith, with merely believing. During that time the Jesus freaks seemed the most ignorant and annoying people alive --- they didn't even have the Sabbath! They didn't even have the truth! Nevermind that I couldn't even believe in God for myself, at least I knew the truth. During that time it was easy to debate about "truth/s", but to actually surrender your life to God and surrender to His love... that was a much, much bigger deal. Debating "truth/s" was easy and amateurish. I could do that. But I could do that because it really didn't mean anything to me. Nothing was staked on it... you can argue to no end about which type of rope is the best, but matters will be different when that rope is going to be your lifeline as you hang from a cliff. Now that I'm no longer Adventist, yeah, I can see the demonic spiritual stronghold in this. It is offended by faith in God, and it is offended by passion for Jesus. Arguing about "truth/s" may not offend it because anyone can argue about "truth/s" in the hypothetical realm when it actually means very little to you. Of course, the more you stake on "being right" about your position, you will make your position mean something. Because of pride, because of not wanting to be wrong or to lose, many people escalate arguments even though initially the point/question meant nothing to them. Anyway, praying for your husband & in-laws. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 823 Registered: 1-2003 |
Blessings to you all! I appreciate it. |
