| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2858 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have been out of adventism since January 2004. I have read so much about the SDA church and its false doctrines on the various websites. I have read the NT, I forget how many times, since January 2004. I feel like my head is oversaturated and at times I just want to not hear or read anything. It is not that I do not want to learn or hear about what Jesus has done for us. I just cannot take it all in and remember what I read and that frustrates me. Maybe it is just me, as I have very high standards for myself and I expect me to remember everything I read from the Bible. I do not want to leave God. I am just tired of what I do not know. Can any of you identify with this? I am not even sure I am expressing what is going on in my head at this time. Diana | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 192 Registered: 3-2005 |
Diana, I don't know if what I've felt is the same - but it sounds similar. I always wanted to know and understand EVERYTHING! I still do, but I'm learning to be more patient with myself. There was so much to know when I was SDA and I never could figure it all out - I didn't realize it wasn't even possible to make sense of it! Now I am finding more contenment in just BEING - knowing that I don't need to know everything, that the Gospel is so EASY to understand. I don't need anything else but Jesus. All the theological discussions and reading material is interesting and sometime I find myself drawn into it again. But I still get frustrated and then just remember that I can rest in Jesus. That is such a new concept for me that sometimes I fel guilty, like I'm burrowing my head in the sand. But I think it is just a need I have right now to stay grounded in the SIMPLE truth and not feel tossed arond by various theological viewpoints that are secondary to the central one - JESUS. Does that make sense to you? Another part of this is my Fibromyalgia Fog, and the frustration I have of retaining much of anything these days! It forces me to "KISS" ("Keep It Simple Stupid")! And that's not all bad! tisha | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4700 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dear Diana, I do understand what you're explaining, I believe, although my experience isn't identical. You know, at the times when I have feelings of almost restnement or annoyance at being overwhelmed or "tired of it all" or overloaded, there are a couple of things I usually have to do. First, at those times I have to choose to prayóand the praying is usually to ask God to help me know His will and to keep me planted in truth and reality. Another prayer I often pray is to ask Jesus to be all I need. it's often tempting to me to just give in to feeling sad or zoned out when thing seem overwhelming. Sometimes I feel like just ignoring everything that demands my attention and pretending it doesn't exist. (Very mature, huh?!) At those times I have to consciously choose to ask Jesus to be my all-in-all and to teach me His will and keep me faithful. I have a suggestion for the overwhelm with Bible reading and devotional reading. This may or may not address your paticular frustration, but it's something I've found to be helpful. Try picking a passageóperhaps from the Psalms or from a favorite NT bookóand instead of just reading it and trying to concentrate and understand, copy it word for word in a notebook or journal. Just do a very short passage at a time if you feel overhwelmed. Ask God to teach you with His Spirit as you read and write, and don't worry about trying ot do more or remember more. Just start with a couple or a few verses and copy them. It is amazing how the meanings of the words become clear in new ways when you actually focus on each one long enough to write it. Somehow copying Bible texts getrs them closer to youóit makes them open up in ways merely reading doesn't. And you don't have to worry aobut doing any more. Just copy and ask God to teach you what He wants you to know right then. Praying for you, Diana, Colleen | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2006 |
Diana, I am finding similar feelings lately. I did a study this past weekend on the new covenent that pastor Clay Peck has on his website at Grace Place church in CO. It felt so right to finally really understand the rest I now have in Jesus. Then to mess it up I feel I better study the Sabbath issue from the more traditional Adventist perspective. I read the text that was on the It Is Written website for proof of the Sabbath. I also read Ten Commandments Twice Removed. Then I get confused again and frustrated (which is how I was for 39 or my 43 years in Adventism). Do any of you do this to yourselves? Is this what you are talking about in any way? I agree that maybe it would be better for me at this time to invite the Holy Spirit to lead me (which I do) and study just the bible. Frustrated at times too, Alan | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2006  |
Alan, Your frustration is well understood here. When studying a serious issue like this, you are not looking at it like entertainment. It is more like life and death. You need to make it clear in your mind that you have made the right decision before you can find peace. Just don't rush yourself, remember you are in Gods hands and in his time. My wife and I have to remind each other now and then to take a break. We are used to knowing all the answers but when you realize for the first time that God cannot be pinned down, it can be rather disturbing. One suggestion I would have is if you liked Clay Pecks study, you would love Sydney Clevelandís book, "White Washed" he logically and clearly brings out some of the most twisted points in SDAism, I guess you could say he "Untwist" them. This book was real jewel to me. It helped put my mind at ease and made me realize there was no need to panic about my religious paradox. You can find it here.. http://www.ratzlaf.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1001721445 After I left SDAism, I actually saw a shrink for the first time because of my anxiety attacks. He put me on some meds (which I only took a few of) but the point is these chains of bondage are real. This Spiritual battle is real. We have ventured out into the rest of Christ and the enemy is not happy. Diana, that would be my suggestion to you as well, if you are feeling overwhelmed, oversaturated or whatever take a break, slow down, we are in Gods hands now. We no longer have to know all the answers. ìBy faith we are saved.î ìIt is not of ourselves.î Jesus said ìI will give you rest.î Accept it and enjoy, life is good. Blessings to all in Christ! Tim | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2004 |
Diana, I think I went through something similar. As a former it was really hard to come to terms with not knowing and not being settled about all the issues I had questions with. It was overwhelming. Bible study helped answer all the questions I had about the basics. It was helpful to me to just stop searching at that point and rest in my newfound knowledge of Jesus and just enjoy Him. Then as the years passed the answers to other nagging questions began to be answered. I am still learning and don't think there will ever be an end to it. It was very helpful for me to come to terms with being unsettled about issues. For instance, when I first left Adventism I was still confused about the state of the dead. I let that issue sit on the back burner. As time past I learned more and more about the spirit/soul/body and everything clicked into place. If in your heart you understand salvation and what Jesus has done I would just rest on that for awhile and let the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4704 Registered: 12-2003 |
Alan, I completely understand your dillemma. In fact, I talked with another person not too long ago about this very issue of the confusion and the reveiwing of Adventist teaching after studying New Covenant explanations. There's a couple of things that you have to think about. First, Adventism and New Covenant theology can't both be right. Adventism clearly teaches an incomplete atonementóor, in the cases of the more liberal or post-modern Adventists, it teaches something pretty close to universalism. Neither of these beliefs is biblical. The deception and power of Adventism does not come from Godóbecause God cannot lie, and there is no darkness at all in Him. He is completely faithful, trustworthy, and consistent. He does not "bait and switch" or hold His hand over mistakes to make us think one thing (like the predicted 1843 return) so we'll "get ready" and be waiting when the REAL time comes. God is not a trickster, and He does not deceive us. Deception comes only from evil. When Paul wrote to the Galatians about their being drawn back into law-keeping, he used strong wordsóintentionally: "Who has bewitched you?" (Gal 3:1). "Bewitched" is an occult termóPaul isn't just being dramatic. IN 1 Timothy 4;1-4 Paul says that in "later times" people will "abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." He describes these doctrines of demons as prohibitions against marriage and food, etc. Colossians 2:14-17 explains that by nailing the law with its "decrees that were against us" to the cross, Jesus disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public spectacle of them. Therefore, no one is to act as our judge with regard to food, drink, or festivals, new moons, or Sabbath days. The power of the Adventist clutch on those who begin to question is a spiritual power. Doctrines of demons are not benignóthey are designed to deprive the deceived from knowing Jesus. You can absolutely expect to be confused, mentally fogged out when studying, distracted, etc. It is essential that you ask God to protect your heart and mind in Jesus and to keep you planted in truth and rooted in reality. Ask Him to teach you the truth with His Spirit through His word and to protect you from deception. Second, I personally advise that you take a moratorium from ALL Adventist materials. After we first left, we found that we had to refuse to read their publications or listen to their broadcasts, even the local church services which are on the radio in our area. At first we'd listen just to "keep track" of what was going on, but we discovered that these things would generate feelings of confusion or anger or fascination that kept our attention. We had more Adventism going in and rolling around in our heads than we had Biblical input at times. We finally decided that if Adventism was doctrines of demons, we had to refuse to ingest it. For about three years we refused to listen to Adventist broadcasts or webcasts, etc. No SDA materialsówe even burned our Ellen books! At this point, because of the work we do, we keep track some of the publications and productions of Adventistsóbut they no longer confuse us. And we don't spend tons of time with those things. But now, Alan, while you're studying and establishing yourself in the Word of God, you need to swear off of all Adventist publications and ask God to teach you the truth through His word. He WILL teach you; He WILL make the word clear to you. Continuing to compare Adventist lessons with Bible lessons is like being in drug rehab and sneaking cocain into your rehab room, hoping to "get well" while refusing to give up the old ways. Part of the decision to leave Adventism is surrendering to Jesus the fear and doubt and allowing Him to stablish you in your faith and in the Word of God alone. Colleen | ||
| Bigal Registered user Username: Bigal Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2006  |
Timmy and Colleen, Thank you both for your helpful insight. I agree with backing down from or taking a moratorium. My wife said something very similar to me last night as we went out for a run. She thought I would be better to just read the bible and allow the Holy Spirit to lead me in my study. I sometimes involve her in what I am studing about former issues and she will say "I don't want to hear it." Meaning she is secure in what she now believes. That is what I want to be. Colleen when you wrote "incomplete atonement" it reminded me of what I just read about the Adventist rejection of the New Covenent as being "spiritual adultery." I understand this to mean that not believing in the New Covenent takes away from Christ's atonement of our sins and his new commands for our spiritual change. To continue under the Old Covenent is to reject all he did for us at the Cross and now in our lives through the Holy Spirit. Swear off all Adventist publications/teachings. Your right it is like a drug that I keep coming back to. Addicted to Adventism! I am ready to kick the habbit. I'm clean and free in Christ blood. Hallelujah! Alan | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2004 |
"Swear off all Adventist publications/teachings." That is what I had to do when I was leaving and for a little while after I left. It was too confusing to hear the arguments. I didn't trust any source at that point (whether SDA or not) and I just went to the Bible and studied my way out of Adventism. I determined to read the New Testament as though I had never read it before with no preconceived opinions about what a text means. I was surprised to "see" so much that I had never noticed before. That journey through the Bible was life changing. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2006 |
"Swear off all Adventist publications/teachings. Your right it is like a drug that I keep coming back to. Addicted to Adventism! I am ready to kick the habbit. I'm clean and free in Christ blood. Hallelujah!" Amen! I think if I had the advise Colleen just gave you Alan, that my journey out would have been much smoother or cleaner. Adventist claim to be a "Bible only" denomination, so this suggestion should offend no SDA... | ||
| Tricia Registered user Username: Tricia Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2006 |
I totally agree that it makes me have alot of turmoil when I dig out Adventist material and study it (even when I'm not agreeing with it at all). Thanks for the good advise. Tricia | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2861 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I read the stuff on CARM, written my SDAs, I read the first sentence and the last. I cannot read the convoluted thinking. The answers by other Christians/MJs/formers I read. I will have to restrict my time there as it has contributed to this "feeling" I have. Other than that I leave SDA writings alone. I will continue to do so. God is so wonderful and so awesome. Diana Diana | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2005 |
Welcome Tricia and Alan, Yes, Diana, I totally understand what you and others say about the overwhelm, confusion, the mental anquish, the back and forth thinking and studying. I went through months of that right before I made the final decision to leave. Colleen, THANK YOU for your post. "The power of the Adventist clutch on those who BEGIN TO QUESTION is a spiritual power. Doctrines of demons are NOT BENIGNóthey are designed to deprive the deceived from knowing Jesus." WOW, that finally clicked! Its SPIRITUAL WAR when "doctrines of demons" are challenged. A spiritual stronghold of false doctrines is threatened. I dont typically see demons behind everything, but I see the connection here, and in hindsight, the agony and mental confusion were of demonic proportion. I will pray to keep that in mind when Im talking with those still stuck in the grip of doctrines of demons. That insight will also help me focus my prayers for protection and truth. Thankfully, we know Who the victor is, and we are His. Yes, He is all that, Diana. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4706 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lori, you are so right. Leaving Adventism is a true spiritual battle. It's not just spiritual in the sense that we have to understand opposing spiritual ideas. It's a spiritual battle in that demons are at work to keep people from knowing Jesus and abandoning darkness by walking into the light. If we don't recognize the true nature of this battle, we remain connected in subtle but powerful ways. Leaving Adventism is not just figuring out new facts. It's renouncing the evil/sin of having been involved in doctrines of demons and embracing Jesus instead, asking His Spirit to replace the spirit of Adventism in our hearts. People often get really upset and angry when they hear this, but the fact is, it is true. But it shouldn't surprise usówe are born dead, doomed to hell and deserving of damnation. We are born into the "domain of darkness" (Col 1:13) and rightfully "owned" by Satan. Only in Jesus is this curse liftedóand when He lifts us from this domain of darkness and transfers us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, we are literally brought from death to life and tranferred from Satan's domain to God's eternal kingdom. No, leaving Adventism isn't just a matter of ideology or variant theology. It's actually a matter of leaving a system built of Satan's deceptions and choosing instead to allow Jesus to make us completely new, setting us free in Him. Colleen | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 299 Registered: 6-2005 |
Its no mistake this thread came up at this time. Thank you Diana, for being transparent. A couple weeks ago a member of my sunday school class suggested that I ask one of the pastors to pray over me re breaking the bondage over food laws, Sabbath keeping, false doctrine etc. I have been feeling so free, just enjoying Jesus, and resting in Him, and praising Him for how He has carried me out of Adventism, and through all the devastation of divorce. I didnít follow thru with the prayer recommendation, didnít really think it was necessary, as I have felt so blessed, free, and grounded in truth. Today at bible study, (Daniel) I was shocked by my reaction when Daniel 7 was read aloud. (I have been really enjoying the study of Daniel.) Anyway, when Daniel 7 was read, I unexpectantly broke into sobs, and had such a deep feeling of unrest, even confusion, almost what I would describe as a post-traumatic stress reaction. I had to leave to get myself together, then pretty much numbed out the rest of the study. My group prayed for me after the study, and I did get some relief and clarity, but have still had much unrest throughout the day. I plan to go back tonight for the evening session on Daniel, to hopefully be able to hear it this time, and ask for more prayer if needed. Im really glad we had this "discussion". I see the spiritual forces at work, and I am glad to know how to pray re all this. I would really appreciate your prayers as well. Obviously I have more healing to do in this area. I trust Jesus to bring me into full truth and freedom. Lori | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 595 Registered: 1-2003  |
Lori, you continue to be in my prayers. Richard PS: tonight is Alpha and this weekend is another study on soul sleep. We are meeting two weeks in a row from our usual every other week. Keep me in your prayers. This past weekend someone saw I was quiet and when asked I just said that my life is in such a state of flux and change that I needed to just rest quietly in HIS hands as the Holy Spirit did His work. I needed to stay in that quiet place of peace, amid all the storm.  Well the PS is longer than the main post. <grin> | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 588 Registered: 7-2004  |
Diana, I know just what you mean. Wading through the SDA explanations on CARM (and other places) can be like treading through knee deep mud. And worse, sometimes I have to research SDA writings in order to respond with details to posts. Too much time with that can just suck the joy right out of me--and the mud just gets thicker. I don't believe anyone is immune from it. And every now and then we each need to get out of that mud and into a shower. Don't allow SDA posts/books/mags or any other mud to drag you under, because it will. Engaging in discussions (or following along as others do) directly with SDAs can be a good way to build an understanding of your Biblical position. My time on CARM has forced me to be a much better student of Scripture. But it can be overwhelming at times. Even the most seasoned apologists on the board step away to recharge. I think most of us fail to step away as often as we should, or as soon as we should. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 596 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ric, how do I get to "CARM"?? I don't believe I've ever visited, maybe for good reason?? Richard | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2866 Registered: 3-2004 |
Richard, I am not Ric, but you go to Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry through a search engine and you will get there. And as Ric said above, I have to dig deep in the Bible to understands what is going on. I do not debate the SDAs there, but I will answer any questions they ask me. When they get antagonistic, I just tell them that no matter what Bible text I put down, they will not agree, so I leave you in God's hands. I want to, well, I better not say what I want to do to the SDA sometimes. Jesus loves them and died for them also. And I was once one of them. God has shown me that He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2005 |
Lori - I SO understand your visceral reaction to certain "triggers" that remind us of Adventism. It's amazing how our body reacts to things or memories of things we haven't quite healed completely from. I remember my previous boss (and really good friend of mine), told me about how her husband, whom she was separated from at the time, was killed by his roommate. She said, to this day, 14 years since the murder, she still becomes nauseated on the anniversary of his death. Most of the time, she won't really realize what the date is until she wakes up feeling "sick". So although consciously, she might not realize or remember what day it is, physiologically her body still reacts. I noticed the other day that just the mere mention of the book of Daniel, or prophecy, makes my body tense. That reflex response caught me a little off guard as well. So I can totally understand your description (and a perfect description actually) of it being a "post-traumatic stress reaction". Praying for you, Lori. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 269 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rick, nice to see you poke your head back in here for a visit. I admire your patience on CARM, but I am sure much of the time it seems like the ongoing and unrelenting circular reasoning of those supporting impossible SDA positions must become extremely tedious. Since my/our pal Guibox has left the forum, I rarely follow it largely for the reasons I stated above. I do miss what I referred to as that "Guiboxian fervor". But even he found the constant wrangling on CARM was beginning to be detrimental to his spiritual walk. Reading the theology and attitudes of most of the SDA posters continues to convince me that my leaving Adventism was guided by the Holy Spirit, and it reminds me why I will never go back to that legalism again. Nice to see you here again. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2877 Registered: 3-2004 |
Randy, I do agree that after reading the theology and attitudes of the SDA posters does tell me that I am where God wants me and it is not in the middle of adventism. With the Holy Spirit guiding me, I never will go back to that confusion and convoluted theology. God is so awesome and I did not learn that in adventism. Diana |
