| Author | Message | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2004 |
How do you tell your kids what you think of SDA theology without damaging their relationship with family? As of now when a situation arises I just explain that x family member believes differently about some things. I am not concerned at all with my family trying to indoctrinate my kids, but I do want my kids to be free to practice their beliefs and at the same time be respectful of SDA family. My kids were born after I left SDAism so they have no knowledge of the differences. I'm sure they will have more knowledge as they get older. Should I avoid talking negatively about my past beliefs in front of my children? I'm thinking that maybe I should just focus on teaching them the Biblical truth and explain that my family sees things differently. It isn't just SDAs too, there will be lots of other Christian groups that my children will run into who believe differently. I guess I want them to grow up and be loving to all Christian groups yet be rooted in their faith so they will not waiver. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2006  |
Good question. I would like to add one more. My Mom asks my son if he eats pork all the time. Instead of saying yes and making her upset, he tells her no (lies) and makes her happy. Then he says.."Dad, what am I supposed to do???" I really don't know. We have already been accused of making her almost have a nervous breakdown... My niece, also a former, started a new school (Public, which she absolutly loves). All mom asks her is "What did you eat for lunch?" She didn't want to know if she had new friends or liked her classes or teachers or anything. Just Lunch. Thank God the kingdom of heaven isn't about food and drink... | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2004 |
Wow Timmy! That is a difficult situation. I'm not sure what I would do. My children have eaten pork in front of my SDA family and they do not say anything. I do not think they have a problem with my kids eating pork since we are not SDA. If we were SDA and going against our beliefs then I know they would have a problem with it. I have a hard time imagining why an SDA would focus on the pork. I understand the focus on the Sabbath due to their linking it to salvation, but do some link the abstaining from pork to salvation too? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 661 Registered: 8-2004  |
Good questions! On how to tell kids about people with different beliefs, remember that kids are often smarter than we give them credit for. What I have done is ask God for love for the people I need to tell my children about, for wisdom in what to say, and for Him to give my children discernment and a good filling with the Holy Spirit. Things I've found helpful: Tell the children my own story - how I came to Jesus, how God loved me and worked with me even when I understood much less about Him than I do now. Showing them Bible passages that explain what I now believe, and clearly recognizing there is still much for me to learn. Teach them Truth is a person and wants to be known. Encourage the children to base their own faith on Jesus alone, to trust the Bible, to keep thier eyes and ears open to learn more. That I'm happy to share with them what I have found, and that as they grow there will come a time when they need to verify things for themselves. That God wants to work directly with them as well. Don't preach. Ask God to provide the openings. Wait for them to ask questions, and then answer only as much as they ask, pointing them to the Bible as often as possible. I've been amazed sometimes at the places they've taken conversations like this. Admit my own mistakes (in relation to them, not suggesting we turn them into our confessors or something). On several points I did not at one time live 'openly'. I kept my mouth shut hoping to preserve the peace. It was what I thought I should do but looking back it was wrong. The children saw it as such very clearly, and deserved the apology I gave them. Live what I say I believe. Show them in life what living faith is. Let them see me walking with God, and struggling as well (but don't fake it - they smell a phony VERY quickly, and faking doesn't do anybody any good). Let children understand that people see things differently and that that's ok. That God has given us free choice and minds of our own and is working with each person individually. We talk sometimes of different beliefs and belief systems, a and why people would come to those beliefs. Usually I don't need to explain what is 'wrong' with the beliefs. The kids rather quickly come up with that themselves. On food and other 'practice' issues I'll often remind them of the passage in Romans 14 where it says "Who are you to judge anotherís servant? To his own master he stands or falls." That we are not to judge others for what they eat or don't eat and they are not to judge us. Teach them that God meets us where we are and brings us to Himself. That this applies to other people too. And the every person every day either living open to God, to Truth, and to Realty, or is making choices that close us off into our own illusions and fantasies. That as we walk with God (for it is God that worketh in us) He will help us to know what to say and when to keep silent to encourage others to come to Him. Be ready to admit I don't know. As an SDA I believed that I had to have an answer for everything. If they ask a question that stumps me now I will tell them I don't understand it either. If it warrants it I'll suggest we look for the answer together. Whether we find a clear answer or not I can assure them (because I've learned this from experience) that God DOES know the answer and will give it to us when the time is right. Trust God for them and teach them to trust God for themselves. God is ultimately trustworthy. He does not 'fix' things, He brings us thru them. He is in the past, present, and future, knows all of us thru and thru and still loves us! He prunes, and stretches, comforts and guides. He listens and teaches, watches and waits. He is well able to complete the work He's begun in each of us. Blessings, Mary | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2006  |
U2bsda: Actually Ellen G. White wrote that to be saved when Jesus returns one has to be a vegetarian. Also I isnt a solution to lie, thats what the SDA-organization is all about, lies. Helovesme2: Great advices  Jesus loves you! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 216 Registered: 6-2006  |
Mary, those are excellent points! I've been looking for some good ways to encourage our kids in their faith, and teach them how to respect their SDA family's faith, while protecting them at the same time from the false doctrines. When my daughter was just 3yrs, she came home from an evening with her SDA grandmother and told me something very interesting. As I tucked her in bed, she said that Grandma told her that she was "lost". As you can imagine, the blood all but drained from my head. I asked her if Grandma said that she herself was lost too, and my little one said "no, only me". My answer to her was that we're all lost without Jesus, but with Jesus we're not lost. "He keeps us from being lost". From then on I realized I had an uphill battle. I believe my husband has submitted our kids to not being SDA, (At least by his actions) but he won't defend that to his family. He still won't disclose to them that we go to church every Sunday. Mary, I really like what you said about "Truth is a person and wants to be known". One thing I really pray for our kids is that they truly understand that JESUS is the TRUTH, not a doctrine or an organization, and that they fully understand that Jesus is our sabbath rest. Being that I grew up in a church that didn't have any interest or reason to understand the SDA doctrines, I know now that I just wasn't prepared to understand what I was getting into in marriage. Now I have the advantage of help our kids, while learning a lot myself. God bless the rest of you in this predicament! I know it can sure be a pain. Leigh Anne | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks Mary for the great advice! Leigh Anne said "When my daughter was just 3yrs, she came home from an evening with her SDA grandmother and told me something very interesting. As I tucked her in bed, she said that Grandma told her that she was "lost". As you can imagine, the blood all but drained from my head. I asked her if Grandma said that she herself was lost too, and my little one said "no, only me". My answer to her was that we're all lost without Jesus, but with Jesus we're not lost. "He keeps us from being lost". " I so sorry you went through that! If my family ever did that to my kids I would be very upset and would most likely keep my child at a distance or never leave them alone with my child. I know I would have the full support of my spouse though. It must be hard dealing with that when you have a SDA spouse  | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2006 |
U2, Here is a few EGW statements. Where I came from... YES, Eating/not eating pork is DEFINATELY a salvational issue. 694. The tissues of the swine swarm with parasites. Of the swine, God said, "It is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." This command was given because swine's flesh is unfit for food. Swine are scavengers, and this is the only use they were intended to serve. Never, under any circumstances, was their flesh to be eaten by human beings. {CD 392.2} (1865) H. to L., ch. 1, p. 58 But it is not the physical health alone which is injured by pork eating. The mind is affected, and the finer sensibilities are blunted by the use of this gross article of food. It is impossible for the flesh of any living creatures to be healthy when filth is their natural element, and when they will feed upon every detestable thing. The flesh of swine is composed of what they eat. If human beings eat their flesh, their blood and their flesh will be corrupted by impurities conveyed to them through the swine. {CD 393.1} | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2006 |
grace_alone, did you ever confront you mother-in-law? you definitely have restraint. i think i would have tried to approach her respectfully and directly, but who knows where it would have gone. my mil is extremely indoctrinated but very passive so she would never stand up to me, but just give me some answer that she thought sounded nonconfrontational. i hope i am never in your shoes... | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 211 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks Timmy! Wow, I think my family would say that eating pork had nothing to do with salvation. They may say that if you believe that you shouldn't eat it and then do then there may be a salvational issue. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2006 |
U2, That just makes me laugh. A few years before I left, our SDA church booted a guy for eating pork and riding his bike on the Sabbath. Pork eating is considered a very serious issue here. You would not be considered an Adventist here if you said "eating pork had nothing to do with salvation." | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2006 |
P.S. Mary, I am going to print that list you made and hang it next to my desk... Very good pointers! Tim | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2006 |
didn't realize that it was a salvational issue either, maybe a sin to them, but not affecting one's salvation. why do they deny it then? my husband has told me that it is strictly for health reasons and God provided those instructions in the old testament to protect people. the adventist thing is so confusing to me and hard to follow. i never feel like i totally understand where they are coming from. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1531 Registered: 10-2004  |
Nicole, They'll deny anything if they think it will be helpful in making Adventism look good. When they talk about things being for "health reasons" they could be coming from one of two angles. They may be arguing that the dietary restrictions in the Law of Moses were not "just ceremonial" but that they are "health laws" (which they believe are as morally-binding as the so-called "Moral Law"). "Health laws" also may include anything EGW talked about. Also, Adventists may claim that they abstain from certain things simply for "health reasons." But the truth is that they believe that anything unhealthy is also sin. U2, Regarding salvation, Adventism teaches that you must be sinless and perfect to be saved. Therefore, anything that EGW says is sin is a salvational issue. That means that you have to abstain from baking soda, baking powder, cinnamon, other spices, vinegar, mustard, cheese, coffee, tea, etc., in order to go to heaven! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on October 04, 2006) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 220 Registered: 6-2006 |
Wow, my in-laws are doomed because they own a bakery! U2 and Nicole, thanks for the sweet words. When it happened, believe me I was hopping mad and went to my husband about it. Of course at the time, all he could say was "Yes, I'm sure that's what she said and that's what she meant". So I asked him if he'd tell his mom not to do that again. I doubt that he did, although we haven't had anymore instances like that since. I admit, I'm a big chicken and was afraid if I confronted her it would start WW3. I've just been on "Red Alert" with her since then. Our daughter is 7 now and I've made it clear to my husband that I don't want the kids exposed to EGW AT ALL. I'm a stay at home mom, and he works a lot, so thankfully he doesn't argue with me when I make those requests. Since we both agree that the Bible is the "ultimate authority", that's what we use. He still gets confused between EGW/Bible, but I'm just happy that he comes to church with me. Things are getting better over time! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 663 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yes Jeremy! They do though have lots of ways of getting around these prohibitions: Baking powder? Use Rumfords! Cinammon? Use a mix of other herbs. Vinigar? Lemon Juice . . . or in the case of pickles perhaps just salt curing (shhh SOME pickles are ok). Mustard . . . well who wants mustard anyway? Cheese? Go for the nitpicky - when one of the 'cheese' statements was being translated for a European audience the clarification was given of 'sharp cheese' - so 'mild, or 'young' cheeses are fine! Coffee? well, you can always use Roma or Postum. But if you REALLY want coffee, use it as a medicine - for migraines or for nights you need to stay awake (caffenated colas are good for this too). Tea? Well you know that's only the non-herbal ones (lets not ask too closely just what 'regular' tea comes from!). Seriously, these are things I learned as an SDA. On the other hand there are many SDAs who have no clue these things are expected. They are no less SDA for that, just less educated in SDAdom. As for how Romans 14 applies, I appreciate the point Jeremy made that this is talking about 'believers' strong and weak (it is interesting to me that the 'strong' are pictured as carniverous and the 'weak' are the vegetarians). This does not require us to be vegetarians in our own home because the Hindus of society are vegetarian. This does not require us to institute the burka because some Muslims do. This does not mean we must eschew vehicular travel because some Mennonites do. This means we are to be considerate of the thoughts and feelings of others, to seek to live as Godly people in the middle of an ungodly society. We are to be tenderhearted, forbearing, and kind. Easier said than done, I know, but as Romans 14 also reminds us "God is able to make [us] stand". Blessings, Mary | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4711 Registered: 12-2003  |
Leigh Anne, what a horrible thing for your daughter to have been toldóand by a grandma! Mary, your list above was wonderful. And your comment later about tea made me laugh a bit. At the Loma Linda Market, caffeinated beverages, of course, are taboo. You can find a greater selection of herbal teas than just about anywhere else, and you can get all manner of coffee substitutes as well as regular decaf. But during the past few years, I've noticed a most interesting development. The market has begun stocking a number of specialty herb and fruit flavored teas based on black tea or green tea. The actual name may be "orange-something-or-other" tea, or "wild berry-something-or-other" tea, so the casual reader woudln't even notice that the tea contains the real stuff. Since the market has developed a reputation over the decades for carrying the largest local collection of non-caffeinated drinks, none of the faithful would ever think they'd need to read labels at the Market. In fact, based on my past experience in the church, I'd say the fact that everything in the store is "safe" is one of the pleasures for Adventists of shopping there. Now, I'm quite sure the buyers KNOW that those teas contain the real stuff. But nothing is said, and the locals can now buy black or green tea at the Loma Linda Market. They just can't buy Lipton Tea or anything recognizable as REAL tea. And we all know from our past that what we don't know can't really hurt us. (Ha!) (I remember being vaguely disappointed when I learned that Sunkist orange soda had caffeine. If I hadn't known, I wouldn't have been responsible...similarly, if caffeine was "innocently" served at an official SDA organizational function, I would be guiltless to drink it because the "authority" itself had provided it. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2006 |
Mary, that's too funny, I have heard every one of those, plus the sabbath games like Bible-opoly, go fish jonah... and so on. Every time I hear of these conditions to get around the rules I think of Jesus' statement... "You strain a knat and swallow a camel..." Isn't this the very type of thing he was refering to? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2862 Registered: 3-2004  |
Mary, I really like your list. It is similar to the one I followed when my son was little. I always told him the truth. His Bible stories were right from the Bible. I apologized to him when I was wrong. In other words I did not raise him as an SDA with a foundation in EGW. Thank you God for that. You are awesome. As for Grandma's that make remarks like that I would not let her have my child alone. It would always be in my presence. If she can be spoken to I would do that also. That is a tough one. I will pray for you. Diana | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2004 |
Jeremy said "Regarding salvation, Adventism teaches that you must be sinless and perfect to be saved. Therefore, anything that EGW says is sin is a salvational issue. That means that you have to abstain from baking soda, baking powder, cinnamon, other spices, vinegar, mustard, cheese, coffee, tea, etc., in order to go to heaven!" I realize the basis for that is in EGWs writings but I knew very few SDAs that believed those things were related to salvation. If I asked my family (who work for the church in various positions) they would totally disagree with that. As an SDA I didn't believe those were associated with salvation at all - they were simply a health issue. There are many SDAs who are view EGW as a supplement to the Bible and not equal to the Bible. |
