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Zjason
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Username: Zjason

Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone read or heard of this book? Martha Beck is the author, she writes on her exodus from the Mormon Church. I'm partway through it, and the attitudes she relates of the higher ups regarding questioning church doctrine is eerily familiar to what I've heard about the response to questioning of doctrine within the Adventist church. My therapist gave me this book to read last week, since I've shared my struggles privately with her about my secret questions regarding the church I still "belong" to. I don't think my wife understands the depth to which my foundational beliefs in Adventism have been crumbled. In the recent past I've tested the waters with her in asking a couple of questions about the validity of Sabbath keeping in salvation and figuratively got slapped down...She got agitated with me asking such questions and challenging this doctrine, so I figured I'd leave well enough alone. As a result, it's become a private struggle, but I don't like holding this part of myself secret from her...It puts some distance in my soul from her. So my therapist has been a Godsend to me, although there are still those nagging thoughts in my mind about what I learned about those people who "backslide" from the "true adventist faith", and in the future they will be the ones that will be the "most bitter enemies of the adventists". I don't feel at liberty to attend a separate church as my wife and kids, I'm afraid I'm one of those formers who has become more agnostic. I just don't know what's true anymore, I don't have any desire to study scripture or meditate or pray. I've come to a grinding halt in my walk with God...I dislike anything about religion...It seems easier just to go about my life smoking cigarettes, eating pigs, and going to work--I love my wife and kids, I just can't bring myself to even come to God...
Sigh.
Sorry about posting such a bummer--Just venting.
Jason
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 2884
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason,
All I can tell you is that I will pray for you.
Father in heaven, You know what Jason is going through and you know best how to help him. Show him that you love him and hold him in your awesome arms while he is going through this. Jesus is always with you, even to the end of the ages.
Diana
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 230
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 7:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I've been through times like these. In fact, my husband doesn't know that I spend time in here with you all. I struggle too, with wanting to tell him, but then I'm afraid of how he'll receive it. So I take this time to learn, until it's the right time to share.

Please remember this - You are so precious to God. He loves you and truly wants your heart. He's drawing you close. Ask him to lead you. You can even ask the Holy Spirit to impress upon you how to pray. Tell him how you feel and exactly what your heart desires. Your marriage and family are precious to him as well and I promise, he will direct your steps if you ask him.

Phil 4:6-7

6 Donít worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. 7 Then you will experience Godís peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

You are NOT alone!

My prayer for you - Lord Jesus, I pray that you will bless and keep dear Jason and his family. He's confused and worried and really needs your strength now. Direct his words and his steps. Help him to be aware of your presence. Fill him with courage, and soften his wife's heart. Please protect their marriage and I pray that you would set them both free. Love on them, Lord. In Jesus name, Amen.

((HUG))

Leigh Anne




Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 734
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason,
I can so so relate to your angst. What you have shared is reminscent of where I have been in my spiritual journey. Looking back I have come to understand that as an SDA I grew up believing God was the SDA church. The SDA church had such a "command" over my life it was an easy transition for my mind to believe...if the SDA church does not approve of me, God doesn't approve of me...so heck....I'm just going to through in the towel....it's just not worth it!

I know, I am a bit presumptive to think this is what is going through your thoughts - please forgive me. I, like you, also came to the point where I went to a counselor to try and figure out who and what I was. It was a great experience. Another thing I did was to figure out for myself who and what was God. The God I knew was not loving, tolerant, understanding, warm or caring. I decided if I was right about God, I could then just throw Him out of my life once and for all.

That is when I went to Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). I made the "mistake" of taking my then 2 year old son. He needed socialization as his sister was away all day at school and the children's program would be a "free" daycare. As it turned out, he loved the program and it would have been too hard to pull him out, so I keep going every week.

Now, I am not suggesting to you that you go to BSF. My suggestion to you is to find out once and for all what really is the truth of God. That is much different than finding out what the truth is about Adventism. Leave Adventism out of it.

I have another "bossy" idea...tell your wife you are thinking of walking away from God...tell her before you do that you want to look and see if you can find Him in a different light than you know Him now...then suggest you do it together.

Remember, you are looking for God. If your wife agrees, don't read any SDA books, Bible commentaries, listen to SDA sermons. Tell her to keep it just between the two of you and the Bible.

Start with Galatians. If you go to www.biblegateway.com, you can find just about any version of the Bible you would like to read. Check out all the different versions. If it would be more comfortable to read a book together than to be in the Bible together, I would recommend Chuck Swindoll's "Grace Awakening". It is a book of hope that talks about being led beyond the frustration and guilt of trying to please others into the liberating grace of God.

Man has done a wonderful job down through the ages of changing God to look like what they want Him to look like. The bottom line is that Christ went to the cross for us, taking our guilt upon Himself and enduring God's judgment in our place. This means that God HAS forgiven us our sins and that we are pardoned and cleared from guilt in God's sight when we believe.

That's it Jason! Nothing more!

I am praying for you - you can believe that without a doubt. I know and feel your pain and I want so badly to take it away for you. Give up all the garbage and start your knowledge base fresh. Find out for yourself!

In the name of Truth,
Denise

Mwh
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Username: Mwh

Post Number: 184
Registered: 4-2006


Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hang in there Jason, or better God will hold on to you.

Christ is the Truth!
Bigal
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Username: Bigal

Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason, I now realize that even if we give up on God, he never gives up on us. He is just aching to have you back and desire Him. I pray for you now to find peace and joy in God.

Alan
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 4750
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason, I am also praying for you and your wife. Denise's advice to look for the truth about God is excellent. Don't read what anybody says ABOUT the word of God. Read the Bible yourself and pray to know truth. And don't assume you know what truth will look like.

God is absolutely faithful; anyone who seeks Him and desires truth and reality WILL find it. God will reveal Himself to you.

You and your wife are in His hands, and you can trust Him.

I will continue to pray for you and for your wife. And don't ever hesitate to come here and vent. We understandóand we will stand with you and pray for you.

Colleen
Timmy
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Username: Timmy

Post Number: 62
Registered: 8-2006


Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 6:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason, please don't apologize for "posting such a bummer." There are lots and lots of people here that feel or have felt the way you do. You have posted in a place where we relate and understand because of this unique situation.

I have not read the book you mentioned however I have spent a great deal of time on the internet reading about "Prophet" based religions and the formers of those groups.. Including Amish!!! I have noticed with ALL these religions, even Catholicism, that the treatment and attitudes towards the formers are bone chilling similar. Bottom line... Christ is not enough; you need him plus what their particular religion has to offer.

I cannot and will not tell you what to do but, I can tell you what happened to me. When I was very young my parents went through a very strict legalistic EGW based time. After several years went by they backed off some and practiced the more traditional/modern aspects of Adventism. When I got married my wife was very "Liberal" in an SDA sense, but after we had a child all that changed. She started reading all the EGW books and trying to comply with EVERYTHING that EGW said to do. She was very judgmental of me and everyone in the church because they were not "in compliance." (How can you argue with that if you think EGW is a prophet?)

After several years went by she finally broke down realizing that she couldn't "do it all." We somehow justified eating cheese and drinking milk and even using real catsup with that evil vinegar in it. We made excuses in our minds to justify what we were doing to keep from feeling guilty. As strange as it may sound, this little delusion we were living in suddenly was destroyed because of a comment our SDA pastor said. He seemed rather upset and disturbed because I told him I voted. He also told me we had been given counsel not to vote. So I went home and looked it up, EGW says that when we vote we become "Partakers in Sin" with the person we put into office. It is hard to explain but for the first time in my life I suddenly seriously questioned whether EGW was a prophet or not. It also made me realize that if she was right, that my salvation had some serious issues, again (because I voted for George W. :-) )

With my security of salvation at stake and questioning the prophet at the same time, I started to go through the New Testament. For some reason (I now believe this was Spirit lead) I started with Romans, every time I would read anything that gave me a morsel of hope in salvation I would circle it or underline it. By the time I got to Hebrews I knew there was some serious issues with the prophet, and what I was taught about the law. You see, all my circles and underscores were somehow followed or related to statements that said we were freed from the law, or law written on tablets of stone was a ministry of death. Etc. Then of course Hebrews starts talking about all this new covenant stuff.

(This is the part that makes me think of you) I went to my wife and I said, "The Bible says we are free from the law, (I gave her about 6 examples) and I cannot find where the ten C's are separated from that law. All the laws seem to go together or fall together. Then there is a lot of language about this new covenant business. Can you help me find where the ten C's are separated from the rest of the law???" She said sure, I said it has to be from the Bible only, she said no problem, and to make a really long story short, SDAism is now history.

So I guess my point is this Jason, maybe if you ask your wife to help you find something, she will study it out? Maybe get an old Bible and mark it all up, highlight or circle everything that tells you you are saved, when you are done, you will find a lot of circles, because you ARE saved. And no SDA can take that away from you.

Don't ever give up brother,
In Jesus,
Tim
91steps
Registered user
Username: 91steps

Post Number: 112
Registered: 8-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jason, my wife is VERY active in the church I am leaving, in fact she was nomaniated to be an elder last go round, but sadly the elders voted it down, all but one did. They feel threatened by her because she doesn't adhere to the EGW nonsense and ONLY talks from the Bible. I agonized over submitting my resignation letter because I knew that they would use that against her to prevent her from ever being voted as an elder.
So I asked her if she wanted me to keep my membership in hopes that they would vote her in, she told me to do what my heart told me was right, and if I decided to resign she would support me!
Now 3 of the 4 elders at her church shouldn't even be in that office according to the church manual. But, they have been elders for sooooooooooo long, the saints don't want to upset things.
Anyhow, my wife was very hurt over not being voted in as an elder, I was really hoping that this was a sign for her to leave the SDA church, and I prayed that it was, but she got over it. My wife is very grounded in her walk with the Lord, she doesn't adhere to many of the SDA beliefs, yet she still is a member.
I pray that your wife will understand the challenges you are going through and support you in whatever road you want to take.

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