| Author | Message | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 349 Registered: 7-2005  |
When an adventist realize that his church is not the remnant church described in Revelation 12, he feels a great loss. Heís going to loose more than friends and status in the SDA church, the respect of others, his job. Heís loosing his identity as a member of a select group, a special class of people, of being a member of the remnant church. This is a great loss and if he will not discover something better and great than what he once possessed, he will return to his former faith, trying to regain what he lost. What is so precious, so beautiful about being a member of the remnant church? And what can be more precious, more fulfilling, more beautiful, than this? Being a member of the remnant means to be in a special class of christians, actually the only class of people that will be saved at the second coming of Jesus. If the christians who are enjoying the love of God will not change their course, will not renounce worshipping on Sunday and will not start to keep the sabbath, they will "enjoy" the wrath of God and will loose everything. Ellen White said that God loves more the adventist church, than the other churches ìThe church of Christ, enfeebled and defective though she may appear, is the one object on earth on which He bestows in a special sense His love and regard. The church is the theater of His grace, in which He delights to make experiments of mercy on human hearts.î (OHC 172.2) Being a part of the remnant means to feel specially loved by God, more than the other Christian brothers in faith. But when someone discovers that the SDA church is not the remnant, he suddenly looses all these blessings. He no longer feels that God loves him more than other people. His special status is lost, heís no longer a member of a special class. He experiences a crisis of identity, and many adventists returns to their former faith because this loss is not replaced with something greater and more precious. There is a similarity between adventists and the jews who lived in Jesusí times. They believed that God loves Israel more than other people, and they had biblical reasons ìFor I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I give Egypt for your ransom, Cush and Seba in your stead. Since you are precious and honored in my sight, and because I love you, I will give men in exchange for you, and people in exchange for your life.î (Isaiah 43:3,4)They believed that they are a special class, and the greatest threat was to attack this identity. Especially they hated apostle Paul for spreading the gospel in the gentile world. When they tried to kill him, he was saved by the roman soldiers and allowed to defend himself in public, before his enemies. They listened to him quietly for some time but when the apostle Paul spoke about God sending him in mission to the gentiles, their hatred was revealed. ìThen the Lord said to me, ëGo; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.íî The crowd listened to Paul until he said this. Then they raised their voices and shouted, ìRid the earth of him! Heís not fit to live!î (Acts 22:21,22). After reading these texts, and other similar narratives, someone can remain with the impression that the jews believed that salvation is only for the jews, and gentiles had no chance to be saved. But the history and the biblical record show that the jews believed in the salvation of gentiles, but first they must become jews. Even Jesus mentioned their zeal in making converts, ìWoe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convertÖî (Matthew 23:15). Their converts were gentile converts, gentiles who accepted to become jews, to be circumcised and to keep the law, as every other jew. The jews acknowledge that gentiles can be saved but with the condition of becoming part of the jewish people, of becoming a part of a special class. The apostle Paul confronted the same mentality at the council of Jerusalem, ÑThen some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, ÇThe Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.íî (Acts 15:5). The council made clear that belonging to the jewish people is not a condition of salvation. This was the greatest threat to the jewish identity, and the same threat is true for adventists. Living as an adventist live, keeping all the rules as adventists keep, especially the Sabbath, is a condition for salvation in the last days. Only those who will become adventists, will enjoy eternal salvation. If people can be saved in the last days breaking the Sabbath when the Sunday law will be enforced, adventist have no reasons to exists as denomination and remain separate. They will suffer for nothing in the last persecution if those Ñsabbath breakersî can be saved. Like the jews, adventists believed that because they are part ot a different class, they enjoy special blessings from the Lord. They see Godís love linked to their special status, their party. The feeling of being loved in a special way evaporates when someone discovers that the adventist church is not what it pretends to be, the remnant. The apostle Paul suffered the same loss of identity, but he came to the point of seeing it as garbage. He was from the jewish people, circumcised, keeping the law perfectly after the letter, he has a strong identity. But he came to the point where he can say ÑI consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.î (Philippians 3:8). What Paul saw that many former adventists are not seeing today? He suffered a great paradigm shift. He shift the focus from his person, his identity, toward Christ, toward His identity. He no longer felt special in the eyes of God, he actually started to look at himself in a worse light than before conversion, as the greatest sinner (1 Timothy 1:15). But He felt now how special is Christ to him, Christ who loved him and died for his sins. Apostle Paul saw that nothing can separate him from the love of God, (Romans 8:31-38), not because of him, but entirely because of God, because jesus died for his sins and blotted them entirely, leaving no palce for condemnation. This is a huge paradigm shift. It removes entirely the focus from the man and centers it on God. God becomes the greatest treasure, because His love cannot be lost. Nothing can separate the true believer from Godís love, even death, and persecution, because God loves him with an everlasting love, not because he loves God. The adventist paradigm sees Godís love conditioned by manís love for Him. Only after the believer will pass the investigative judgment and will demonstrate faithfullness in keeping the Sabbath when he is threatened with death, only after he wil prove his loyalty, he can be sure of salvation. He must first prove his love for God, before God will give Him the assurance of entering the gates of heaven. This kind of assurance is depending on man. But Paul saw the man assurance entirely rooted in God, in Godís love, in Christís sacrifice for all sins. Because Jesus died, there is no condamnation for the believer. God loves him with an everlasting and never-ending love. Until he saw this, Paul believed that he is a treasure for God. Now he saw God as a treasure for him. What treasure is greater? Man or God? The answer is obvious. This assurance of Godís love is infinite greater than the adventist remnant belief can give. As sure as God is entirely holy and immutable, His love and promises are entirely sure, and will open the gates of heaven to the true believer. All former adventists are in great need to replace their loss of being a treasure for God, being the only true church, with God being a treasure for them. ÑDelight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.î (Psalms 34:4). ÑFor I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, now any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.î (Romans 8: 38,39) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4758 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jackob, thabnk you for sharing your understanding of the change of identity we must face as we leave behind our identities as Adventists. You are so right; the loss of identity is perhaps the hardest part of the whole package of losses. Jesus alone can give us back ourselvesóbut this time in a true persepctive of who we are in relationship to Him. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1064 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jackob, you have captured the experience of surrender. I suppose the loss of identity for me was not so great. My parents were blue-collar Adventists (read: less important), I was never involved directly with the "work" of the church, and in truth I was never that locked into the lock-step of Adventist life. When I finally learned that my salvation had nothing to do with me and everything to do with Jesus, I have to admit to a certain amount of relief. I was angry, as I mentioned before, because it became clear to me that the people in a position to make a difference denomination-wide seemed unwilling to risk their positions or paychecks to tell the truth. It seemed to me that they were willingly turning their backs on Jesus to maintain status quo. Every now and then I try to forgive these individuals, then I hear about how long the truth about EGW and her plagarisms, and the truth about the unsustainable doctrine of IJ, has been available to the leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist church, and my anger rises again. These people have chosen perdition later for minimal gain now. It just does not make any sense at all to me. This is a reflection of having doctrines that force an individual to be constantly self-assessing. You have really hit the nail on the head--it is a paradigm shift from "How'm I doin' to Jesus did it all. We need to go back and listen to all of the old gospel songs. The more I learn about the gospel, the more I know that the songs in the services at the SDA church were more reliable than the sermons. Jesus did it all, all to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain. He washed me white as snow. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2005 |
Is it possible that hyper-identity in superficial things, such as belonging to a particular special group, stunts peopleís emotional growth? Kind of like finding yourself in a group of ìteen-age thinkingî individuals where conformity is EVERYTHING for belonging, eg; construction workers putting down a co-worker for wearing ear plugs or gloves, women making negative comments about another ladiesí shoes, etc, and so on. I think it affected me that way, and see some growth since leaving the church. I see Christ associating with a wide spectrum of persons - from Peter (red neck) to Nicodemus (intellectual) to Mary (street girl) to Luke (MD), loving all the while challenging each one on their own issues. I'm learning, since leaving Adventism, to connect to a wider variety of people than ever, and I by no means exclusively hung with Adventists before. I think the most amazing gift I gained that came with the removal of the veil occurred one night before Christmas. I was out shopping at a large local mall. On seeing thousands of people shopping one Friday after sundown, I had the shocking thought that many of these shoppers were Christians Christ had saved. The picture of the wall separating "Jew and Gentile" being torn down by the trampling of the law made me realized on a much deeper level how great the gift of salvation was that Christ gave to the ENTIRE WORLD. My identity, therefore, has become more about Him and less about me  In other words I identified myself as an Adventist, a Sabbath Keeper, a vegetarian, etc..., and now I am a Christian, a Christian, a Christian. This discussion is vital as it can be one of the most powerful deterrents keeping Adventists stuck, even after learning truth. They can't imagine themselves outside the culture. I couldn't either until the rescue. Praise Be To God!!! Lisa | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2897 Registered: 3-2004  |
One of the many things that amaze me, since leaving adventism is the knowledge that God has a VERY LARGE FAMILY AND I AM NOW PART OF IT. That feels so good when I meet another Christian and we can talk about Jesus and what he has done for us. God never let me have the connection exclusively with adventists. He connected me with various peoples and institutions even as an adventist. My best friends are eclectic bunch. One is a very liberal Jewish lady, one an ex Catholic, one a Christian-but I did not know it at the time and one who claims nothing and an SDA couple. As an active SDA I never really felt that I belonged. My father milked cows for a living, before everything was automated. We were poor and all the church knew it. So, I never felt like I really belonged, even though I graduated from LLU and made a good living. I am so GLAD that God never let me get that feeling of belonging as it would have been harder for me to leave. So now I am a Christian and find life so fulfilling and I have friends that do not care what my background is because they and I love God. What joy there is in knowing God. Thank you!! Praise you!! You are AWESOME!!! Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1548 Registered: 10-2004  |
Lisa, yes, what you described in your first paragraph is one of the characteristics of a cult. Hehe, I have to point out another thing that is from EGW and is not Biblical--and that is that Mary was a "street girl." That's not in the Bible. Jeremy | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 238 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, The women caught in adultery... I guess I assumed her name was Mary. Lisa | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1551 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ok, hehe, I was assuming you were referring to the woman in Luke 7 (who EGW said was Mary Magdalene). Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on October 13, 2006) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2006 |
I have seen this underdog elitist mentality before and not just in Adventist church groups. And the excuse is ìWell, we are in the last daysî or ìthey just donít want to clean themselves upî or some other such thing, they being the outsiders, the great unwashed, the unenlightened, some times these are small groups with no church growth whatsoever, say maybe one family in nine years, itís one thing to stay the same and yet another thing not to ask questions of themselves. Such as, are we carrying out evangelism? Are we taking the word outside these walls? Do we welcome the stranger, cloth the naked feed the poor? The answer may not lay in none of this but the thing is to ask questions in the group setting and seems to me this would go for any of us. The underdog mentality can cause any of us to have a ìShut doorî mentality and I am reminded we need to guard against that. Enquiring minds need to know. |
