| Author | Message | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2006 |
Sometimes as I am reading through the posts on the Former Adventist Forum I feel like a grade school girl who accidentally walked into the boy's high school locker room. First of all I am shocked by some of the things I see and hear. Second I feel I have made a terrible mistake in coming here. And third, I feel a strong urge to flee. But instead I stay and read and try to understand the theological facts of life as seen by people of the opposite sects. Now I can understand how people could become disenchanted with Adventism. I have been there. I can understand how people could leave the Adventist church. I did that & later returned. I can understand how people can become disgusted with decisions in high places that seem anything but God inspired. Iíve been disgusted too. I can understand how people can disagree over theology. I find much theology with which to disagree. But what I canít understand is what often appears to be the utter, almost gleeful rejection of every jot and tittle of Adventism. I canít understand the demonization of the Adventist Church. The last time I checked, Satan, not the Adventist Church, was the Devil. I have spent much time in churches other than Adventist. And I never fail to see both good and bad in every church I attend. The Bible tells us to test all things and hold onto that which is good. So I read A. W. Tozer and weep with joy at the profound insights God blessed him with. I read C. S. Lewis and thrill with his ability to state old truths in totally new ways. I read Ellen White and am smitten by her ability to help me see the beauty of who God is and the privilege and responsibility of being called His child. Do I agree with all Tozer, or Lewis, or White say. Of course not. I test all things. I hold onto that which is good. And that is what I am doing here in the ìboyís locker roomî. I can learn something here. I can try to understand why people would utterly reject something I love. I can try to understand why people would adopt a view of God which is often at odds with the God I know. What is their pain? What have I as an Adventist done to contribute to that pain? What is God telling me here? What is the good I can hold onto? I am sincerely trying to understand! And yes, technically a former, former Adventist like me should not be allowed into this locker room. But perhaps we can both learn together. | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2004 |
I can only speak for myself since we are all individuals here with different opinions, beliefs, and experiences. I do believe that when one leaves Adventism because of theology that most jots and tittles of Adventism are rejected. I have found that alot of theology in Adventism is woven together. For example, the Sabbath ties into the end times and salvation and the state of the dead ties into the new birth and the Holy Spirit. So when someone searches the Bible for answers about one issue it almost always leads to questioning about another issue. It is kinda like a domino effect. I think you will find it common among humans for some to utterly reject something someone else loves. I know there are many Christians who adopt a view of God different from my own. But we do have one strong commonality - Jesus! Although we do share different theological beliefs we can rejoice together in what Jesus has done for us! | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 473 Registered: 7-2000 |
WalkonWater, I had to completely reject all of Adventism. The SDA viewpoint of what the Bible is tells one that the words in the Bible are not important. The thoughts behind the words are only what is important, and further, since those words came through sinful man they are subject to error. Further, to help us find the error and know what to believe, the SDA church would have folks accept a claimed prophet named EG White who made up doctrines that are not in the Bible and go contrary to what the Bible teaches. A good example is found in the first paragraph--thank EGW for the viewpoint that the Bible contains error. BTW, Baptismal Vow 13 is that you believe in EGW, who is defined as a 'continuing and authoritative source for doctrine and daily life'--and that's from a recent G.C. Session. Finally, there is the SDA insistence that folks should be under the law (despite what Paul says); the SDA insistence that there truly no 'new covenant'(despite what Romans, Galatians and Hebrews) clearly say; and the insistence that the Old and New Testament are both inspired AND authoritative (unlike most churches which hold that the Old Testaemnt is inspired and authoritative as long as it is not in conflict with the New Testament). So, the SDA church has a set of doctrines based on a belief that the Bible is 'thought inspired' and contains errors; that all Christians need the 'prophetic' guidance of EGW to understand some 'Present Truth' that she recieved; and that the rest of the Christian church is wrong about a New Covenant; is wrong about what is authoritative; and only the SDA's have the 'Present Truth' thanks to a prophet and a method of Bible study that no one else follows. Can't you see why many of us would utterly reject everything SDA? The only good thing I can see too hang on too are some of the memories I have. The theological foundation of Adventism is rotten to its' very core. There just isn't anything redeemable about it...... BTW, I'm glad you're here and that you're open to talking about this issue. Tell us a bit about yourself! I would guess that you are young--probably in your early twenties, and from one of the SDA communities with large liberal congregations. Am I right? Bill | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 474 Registered: 7-2000 |
Well Walk, I guess I stepped in it big time with that last paragraph. You're NOT a youngster, you even have grandkids. My apologies and I should ahve remembered that ols adage about not to assume anything! | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2006 |
U2bsda and Loneviking, Thanks for your responses. I had to laugh out loud when you, Loneviking, guessed my age and SDA community. You might want to hold off if you were planning on trying to win the lottery. (grin) But thanks for the complement. Instead of my 20's I'm 61 and the church of which I am a member is a very prim and proper conservative SDA church. I mentioned on another thread (Would You Be Mad if I Left the Adventist Church)that God led me back into the SDA church after finding Jesus in a real and living way. My assignment was to live the Love of Christ and help others to learn to walk the walk of faith. Sometimes I get discouraged and want to leave but it is not about me. It is about God and what His assignment is for me. I have studied in great depth evangelical theology and Adventist theology and I think I have a pretty firm grip on what both sides believe. In addition I had the privilage of having Desmond Ford as one of my tenants while he lived in Angwin. We had many hours of wonderful conversation. One question I have for both of you, so I can understand better where you are coming from, is this. How does your theology fit in with Desmond Ford's theology? Is he too SDA for you? As far as I know, He still believes in the 7th day Sabbath and does not believe in everlasting torture theology. WalkOnWater PS: Loneviking Did you ever post on the Christianity.com web site forum. Your name sounds familiar. | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2004 |
Walkonwater, Maybe I'm a little ignorant here but I don't know Desmond Ford's theology. Hey I don't know if he is even SDA. When I was leaving the SDA church I didn't study any Adventist or former Adventist theologians, but the Bible only. I took off my Adventist eye glasses and read the Bible as though I was reading it with no preconceived theology and it opened my eyes to many things. I do keep the Sabbath, but not in the way you imagine. I rest from my works as Hebrews 4 states. I rest from trying to be good enough for God. As for hell whatever happens it is not a good option for anyone. I am leaning towards everlasting punishment, but I do not know for sure. And it is not really an important issue for me since I do not have the Adventist position of the great controversy. I believe the battle has already been won and God has nothing to prove to the universe. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 475 Registered: 7-2000 |
PS: Loneviking Did you ever post on the Christianity.com web site forum. Your name sounds familiar. --------------------------------------- Yes, and over on Crosswalk. That's partly the reason I made the guess I did. I've gone up against so many youngsters who've grown up in a liberal, so--called SDA church. They all want to convince the rest of the Christians on the board that the SDA church is solidly Christian--and I'm not about to let that happen unchallenged. As for Des Ford, I don't know what his theology is now. When I sat in his SS Class and class on Daniel at PUC, he seemed to accept much SDA doctrine except for the I.J. Looking back, I have a hard time understanding how such a careful scholar (and he was a scholar) could find such overwhelming evidence against such a pillar---and yet miss the same evidence against so many other beliefs. But, to answer your question, my beliefs have almost nothing in common with Adventism. Not the Bible I read; not the way I study the Bible; not my core beleifs; not the God I've come to know from the Bible. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4787 Registered: 12-2003  |
WalkonWater, the problem with Adventism is deception. The foundation is not the gospel of Jesus. The foundation is built on Ellen White's confirming visions and on the distinctly unbiblical doctrine of the investigative judgment. The Sabbath was added onto that, as was the state of the dead and the teaching that humans do not have sentient spirits that survive death. This belief in soul sleep and the non-existence of a sentient spirit leads to false beliefs about the nature of man, sin, and Jesus. It means that sin has to be passed on from person to person physically, through the gene pool, as opposed to being born with spirits dead to Life and completely depraved. If sin is primarily a physical manifestation, inherent in one's genes, then Jesus had to have inherited Mary's sinful flesh and was subject to sin as we are. But the Bible teaches that there was NO sin in Jesus. We inherit sin from Adam as a spiritual phenomenon. Our bodies are affected and predisposed to sin as well, but our weakness is not the primary definition of our sin. Our depraved, dead spirits are what define our essential sin. Jesus was born spiritually alive; He has no intrinsic sin in Him. Adventism teaches an incomplete atonement, a Jesus who was weakened by Mary's sin and subject to sin as we are, making Him primarily our example instead of primarily our Substitute. Jesus our Substitute finished the atonement at the cross and opened a new, living way to the Father. He completely fulfilled the law and rendered the law aging and obsolete. He Himself gives us rest and oneness with God. Adventism has every doctrine wrong, even though on paper many of them sound good. In practice the church has an anti-trinitarian bent. It has a false modern prophet. It has an incomplete atonement. It teaches the law, which, according to Galatians, causes people to fall from grace and to return to bondage. It teaches annhilation at death making the resurrection a re-creation out of the mind of God, not the resurrection of people whos spirits have not ceased to exist. As U2bsda and Loneviking have said, Adventism cannot be substantiated from the Bible without the interpretation of the prophet. Unless a person renounces Ellen and the spiritual power and deception that is implicit in honoring her, he or she cannot truly leave Adventism. Further, as long as a person honors Ellen in some capacityóeven as a historical figure who helped the church in a vulnerable time, they have her veil of deception over their eyes and hearts. The Bible cannot speak plainly to them because Ellen's interpretations color everything. Most people who leave go through a long period of figuring out which of their ideas are from the Bible and which are from Ellen. The Sabbath is obsolete because Jesus Himself fulfilled and replaced the law. No, there is nothing about Adventism that I have retained. I praise God for awakening me when I had no desire or knowledge that I needed awakening, and for calling me to Himself! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2159 Registered: 3-2005 |
Welcome to FAF Walk. I was interested in this quote of yours: "One question I have for both of you, so I can understand better where you are coming from, is this. How does your theology fit in with Desmond Ford's theology? Is he too SDA for you? As far as I know, He still believes in the 7th day Sabbath and does not believe in everlasting torture theology." -------------------------------------------------- I was nurtured as a new Christian by Desmond Ford and have the utmost respect and love for him as I am sure you do. He has recently officially left the SDA church so that he could teach at a Baptist seminary in Australia. Ford is absolutely brilliant on Lutheran doctrine such as justification by faith alone--the heart of the gospel, and that is what I especially was blessed by. Ford also trained under the late great F.F. Bruce at Oxford. As I just posted on the "condensed suffering" thread, Bruce himself was ambivalent about the doctrine of eternal torment, and he understood where Ford was coming from on this. The reason Ford holds to the Decalogue and Sabbath is his more consistent view of Covenant theology than some of the Sunday transference theologians, but he is a great fan of the Reformed writers who hold to Covenant theology.(However a literal Sabbath is not really necessary in this stream of theology, but that is a different topic.) So I regard Desmond Ford as my brother in Christ, and just think he is mistaken on the Sabbath. I was also interested in your reactions to those of us who have come out of Adventism. Everyone here is at different stages of leaving Adventism, and it is only normal and healthy for those who have been deceived by Adventism, to at times lash out in justifiable anger. I have been through all the stages, and my view of Adventism is basically unchanged as its very basic doctrine of 1844 is clearly rooted in error, and is only based on a false vision from Ellen White. However, I acknowledge that there are some churches where the gospel is still being preached (for example in Glendale Smuts Van Rooyen), and I know my own mother is a very godly woman and knows the Lord. So Walk, it looks like for now that God has led you back to Adventism, and I have heard of others with a similar experience, but after awhile, as the Bible is studied, they still end up leaving the SDA church. The Holy Spirit is faithful to lead us into all truth. He works on His timetable, and in miraculous and strange (to our eyes) ways. Stan | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2006 |
Religious cults use a deductive method of Bible study in order to keep followers at a more childish level of understanding and thereby dependent upon them for instruction. That reminds me of my younger brother, who, when he has a question of technical nature, always comes to me instead of being willing to read and study himself, the problem with that is that my understanding may be faulty even though I may be sincere. Error cannot produce truth; it can only produce its own fruits of more error. Truth cannot produce error; it can only produce its own fruits of truth. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2006  |
Greetings Walk, You must be quite brave to hang out here in the locker room like this. I admire you for that and welcome you. I also appreciate your question, you seem very sincere and genuine. Well, here is my two cents worth... You said: "I canít understand the demonization of the Adventist Church. The last time I checked, Satan, not the Adventist Church, was the Devil. " I must admit that I do suffer from resentment. This is something I pray about often, and God is helping me heal. My wife and I were "Muscled" (Pastors words) out of the church, it was strongly suggested that we write a letter asking to have our names removed. What was our crime? We were asking questions. And we wanted Biblical answers. This is not a unique situation either. Just this weekend I went to my Academy reunion and an old friend that I graduated with said he heard I was no longer SDA, he asked me why and I briefly told him. He then said that his father, who has been in the church for years, an elder, as well as many other positions, was just "stripped" of all his positions because he questioned a unique SDA doctrine, and wanted a simple Bible answer. So you say, "I canít understand the demonization of the Adventist Church..." On the contrary, I do not understand why the Adventist church demonizes well grounded church members for simply wanting Bible support for their beliefs. If this is a crime, then God help us all. At the church I now attend (non-SDA) if I were to question doctrine and ask for Bible support, I would be praised for studying and searching just as Paul encouraged his critics for searching scripture to understand his teaching. If I decided to leave and go to a different church, they would shake my hand, give me a big bear hug and pray blessings on my spiritual journey. When I left the SDA church I was told that I was now in Babylon and was on my way to hell and taking my family with me...Some of my friends were told not to study with me while others were ordered not to even talk to me (which they still don't to this day.) Who demonized who? (Jesus is bigger than life) Tim | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2904 Registered: 3-2004  |
Walk on Water, I am so glad you came here. You may feel like you are in the boys locker room, but you will find that it is a friendly place with normal disagreement and discussion. I did not leave the SDA church. My name was removed from the books many years ago, without any one telling me, because of my non attendance. When I found out, a few years later, I was not upset, thank you God. I still considered my self SDA. Fast forward 20 years and I was almost rebaptized into the SDA church. That is when God showed me a bookmarked web site on my computer. It was all about EGW, her plagairism and having others write for her. The SDA pastor had challenged our SS class to read the NT without anything else that Christmas(2004). I had started doing that when God brought my attention to the EGW web site. I was very resentful of the deception the SDA church has perpetrated on the members of the church. I wanted to write to the GC president and tell him off, not to christian like. I did not. I have had to turn all that resentment over to God because I have no power over other people. Only God has. No one has been nasty or shunned me because I left. I just never hear from anyone where I attended church. Granted I had only attended church there about 6 months. My best friends in VA, where I used to live are SDA and they have not shunned me. We are still good friends. I have questioned my current pastor about tithing and he was so cordial. Most churches I have attended ask for a tithe, using Mal 4:10 as their basis. I did a study of tithing and found how it was used in OT times and that in the NT I have not found anyone requiring that we pay it. I have studied and am still in the process of studying what the Bible says. I will never know it all. I do know the one important thing and that is I have met Jesus Christ and He is all I need. I will pray for you, that God use you and lead you in all you do. We do have an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Walkonwater Registered user Username: Walkonwater Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2006 |
WOW!! I got up this morning and had plenty to read. First of all I'd like to say that I wish I had time to respond to each one of you individually but alas, time does not allow such pleasures. Loneviking, as soon as I saw your name last night I remembered you on Christianity.com. I interacted with you a number of times back in 2004. Perhaps you remember my name. It was MsMonica (I used my wife's screen name because she was not using the account). Do you remember that name? Anyhow I thought it interesting when Timmy (see above post) mentioned how accepting non SDA Churches are of different points of view, etc. Especially in light of the fact that I was BANNED FOR LIFE by Christianity.com for my defense of SDA Doctrine. I have appealed that "death sentence" a number of times. I even wrote to the new owners, Salem Broadcasting, asking that my sentence be commuted, all to no avail. So I have seen unchristlike attitudes and behavior coming from both directions. The principle I have learned is this. One MUST NOT move theologically or spiritually or even physically because people are not treating you in a Christ like manner. Treatment like this is to be expected. I know it hurts a lot, especially if it is coming from within the church, but Jesus didn't change His theology, or His religion, or move to Mongolia where people would respect Him more. He stayed where He was and met the abuse with, ìFather forgive themî. He kept on loving them when they did not love Him. Oh yes, He uttered rebukes but I personally believe Ellen was right when she said, "There were tears in his eyes" as He uttered those rebukes. What I find today is something quite different. I find people, especially religious people, who are very willing to utter the scathing rebukes but I almost never see tears in their eyes. I saw this big-time on Christianity.com and Crosswalk.com. Christians saying cruel things to one another because they didn't agree on some theological point. Yes Adventists do plenty of rebuking and non Adventists do the same but where are the tears of love? That, I think, is what the world is missing; a spirit of Christ likeness that supplies the tears. And the only one I can find fault with is me. Do I love others the way Jesus did? Do I weep tears of compassion when the pastor does something really stupid or do I smugly sit back and tell others how he screwed up again? Do I praise God when people in the church treat me badly or do I strike back or self righteously shake the dust from my feet and remove myself from that congregation? It makes absolutely no difference in the world what my theological beliefs are. If they don't end up with me at the throne of grace receiving the grace and mercy God has for me AND if I don't then share that grace and mercy and tears with my fellow man, then my theology, even if it is "right", is wrong. I know I have been horribly guilty of violating this principle. I know I have acted in ways that have caused people to doubt God's goodness and love. I hope I have never acted in such a way as to drive someone from the church but I probably have. It is interesting to see what happens when I accept, like Paul, that I am the chief of sinners. It's amazing how my judgmentalness stops dead in its tracks. And what is left? Nothing but amazing grace! As I see my filthy rags and then cling desperately to my Savior, it is then that the miracle of the walk of faith becomes real. That is why I can minister in a dead SDA Church. That is why I can shed tears for them instead of throwing arrows of accusation. I was once where they are now. Jesus shed tears of love for me. Surely I can shed tears of love for them. WalkOnWater ------------------------------------------------ The walk of faith is a miracle in action. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 476 Registered: 7-2000 |
WalkOnWater wrote: Loneviking, as soon as I saw your name last night I remembered you on Christianity.com. I interacted with you a number of times back in 2004. Perhaps you remember my name. It was MsMonica (I used my wife's screen name because she was not using the account). Do you remember that name? ------------------------------------------ Yes, I remember that name. You were banned not for your defense of SDA doctrine, but for loudly pushing (and misrepresenting) SDA doctrine. The rules over on Christianity.com show that the forum is for those following mainstream Christian doctrine. Adventism is not mainstream and several of us documented what Adventism truly teaches using SDA sources. You can talk about love all that you want too. However, you are missing the fact that Jesus and the apostles had some very harsh things to say to false teachers. Things such as: You brood of snakes and vipers... You whitewashed tombs.... You foolish Galatians... If any one comes to you bringing a different doctrine, you must not receive him in your house.... I can understand saying these things with tears for the honestly confused, but not for the 'ravening wolves' deliberately deceiving people. Bill | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 557 Registered: 7-2004  |
Interesting, WalkOnWater, that your reply focuses mostly on how people are treated, when that is not the primary reason for why most of us left the SDA church! In fact, I had no mistreatment while an SDA, and worried that if I left there would be mistreatment. Silence is more like it in my case, but no abuse. I realize this may not be entirely comparing apples to apples, but let me ask you a question. If you had been most of your life in the Mormon church, and then came to see that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, would you stay or leave? That's basically how it was for most of us. Actually, I do admire those who can stay in the SDA church and minister to those thirsty for grace. If not for others like you, I may not have been where I am today (although I'm sure God has other ways). However, once someone really understands the theological foundation of the SDA church compared to the Gospel of the Bible, I can't imagine how such a person could stay. | ||
| Robby Registered user Username: Robby Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dear Walk, Welcome to this community of believers. I lurk here occasionally and have posted a few times. Your post brought me back out of the shadows. Itís a rare ìgoodî Adventist that would consider, let alone encourage, an offspring to experiment outside of the church. After all, the church often refers to itself as ìthe truthî and EGW made it clear that God loves this church more than any other. Most parents of orphaned or former Adventist children either pray ceaselessly that their offspring return to the church, or they break the relationship completely. Do you believe that sister White was a true profit? Do you believe that God will save Sunday keepers? As a 4th generation and son of a well known Evangelist/Minister, I went through the Adventist school system (grade school through Andrews U) then, like about half of the kids like me, I left the church. And I didnít just leave the church, I ran from God. That too is typical, I think. Was that youthful rebellion? I look at the three thousand (or so) high school kids who worship every week at out youth outreach (722.org) and I donít think so. I donít remember thirsting and worshiping. I remember walks at the park and being careful not to swim. I remember a god who wanted us to jump high and duck low, and a personal relationship that was always clouded by a fear of unconfused sins. God brought me back into His outreached arms, but not before I had wasted a season of my life. The SDA church should have a class on where NOT to run when one leaves. I am sure that there are many devout Christians who are saved within the Adventist church, and the spirit dwells within them. But I am not so sure that the spirit lives within the church at large. At the very foundation of Adventism are beliefs that are based on untruths and deception. The church denies the complete atonement for sins by Christís death on the cross. WOW To order believe that Ellen White is a true prophetess, you have to throw out entire chunks of the Bible, including the tests of prophet. Could Adventism be the tool of the Deceiver? Hmmm I wish you well Walk, and I have prayed for you. Have you completely digested the essence of Adventism? Stay with us for a while. In His Amazing Grace, Robby | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2906 Registered: 3-2004 |
Robby, I can really understand what you are saying. After my divorce, I quit going to church on a regular basis. I found a 12 step program that taught me that I am a child of God and He is interested in everything in my life. When I did start attending church on a fairly regular basis, I went to see friends. I got to know the SDA pastor and was very truthful with him when I told him I was happier now(meaning then-7 years ago), then when I was a tithe paying, carry my Bible to church SS class going SDA. He was surprised I was so truthful with him. But he seemed to understand what I was saying. I remember the sabbath walks, only I let my son and his friends put their feet in the river. What you have said, really rang a bell in my head and I am so thankful God reached down to this senior citizen and brought her into His large family of Christians. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2004 |
I am also one who never experienced the mistreatment from Adventists when I left the church. That had nothing to do with the reason why I left - it was simply doctrine. I could not justify staying in a church when I did not agree with the doctrines. I needed to be in a place where I could be fed. Now, it is great that you are there teaching other Adventists about what is important. There are a few Adventists I can point to who taught me about Him and the importance of knowing Him and not in simply following dogma. Is it my job to uncover the false beliefs in Adventism and expose them to everyone? No, but when I am asked I do share the falsehoods and deceptions. Yes, they are talked about quite a bit here, but this is a community of former Adventists so that subject can be expected. Leaving Adventism behind is not as simple as leaving a mainstream church. When we left Adventism our identity was altered and our culture was left behind. | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2006 |
Welcome. WalkonWater (WOW). Yes, I remember Ms Monica and the discussions on Christianity.com. I appreciate that you feel you are where you are called to be in Adventism--ministering to them in love. But I would ask you--would it be enough to be in a Morman church ministering to those around you in love? How about as a Jehovah Witness and ministering lovingly to members? What I believe you may not be grasping is that the vast majority of those of us here left because we studied our way out. While the stories are different, there is often the common thread of finding Jesus. A lot of us came to a point where we knew exactly what we didn't believe any longer and had to engage in prayerful study to find out where we did belong. I would be interested in hearing some more of your story--why you left and why you returned. Are you comfortable evangelizing and bringing people into Adventism? You are courageous in being here, given that any well studied SDA considers that we here will be lost and have the mark of the beast. Aliza | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2002  |
Dear Walk, I appreciate your honesty in coming here as a brother. I hope it is genuine and not an effort to "evangalize". I've seen it before. I can only speak for myself. I was raised and educated SDA. The only theology I knew began with Uncle Arthur and ended with E G White. I can remember reading the KJv through as a teen ager and wondering why we needed something so complicated when we had "sister White" to explain it all so clearly. I knew all the "proof texts" and could do the 2300 day chart from memory and make all the dear "elders" cry with joy at my eager desire to learn. But the closer I got to the "core" of the organization, which I will admit was far from the center, the more I sensed that something was terribly wrong. What was preached was not practiced. I saw more open sin and greed in our church university than I found in worldly state run schools. And this was in the "evil 60's" (OK folks, who's the grandpa now!) In the early 80's I read the Bible through again. It was very disturbing. Yes, the "proof texts" were there but they didn't "read" the same and in many instances didn't mean the same as what I had been taught, when read in context. Move ahead about 8 years. I had not been involved with Adventism for about 10 years. I felt a urgent need to discover real, bedrock, saving truth. I discovered so many Christians who were confident of their salvation. I wasn't and never had been. I remembered reading in White's books that we could not ever be. I saw Christians full of joy in a seemingly REAL relationship with Jesus. Again, I never had that. I discovered I knew a lot of "religion" but I did not know how to be saved! Frankly I was petrified. I determined to put away ALL religious works, beginning with White, and read ONLY the Bible for the truth I needed. Again, it made no sense. So much of it contradicted what I had been taught. I had to make a choice, either reject what it said and hold to what I had been taught or ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth as it is, even if it contradicted my beliefs. I read it again. Some things made a little sense but it all seemed so confusing. It was on the fourth time reading it that it began to become clear. Than a funny thing happened. God took my eyes away. I went blind, through complications of diabetes. I made a promise that if He would let me see well enough to read a large print Bible, I would read untill I found the truth I was seeking. My eyes cleared enough to read and I read it again, in a month. Again, I went blind. This went on for about four years. When they cleared, I would read it through and then the Spirit would give me lots of time to pray and listen to Him explain and sort out what I had read. When I discovered the real saving gospel, I will never forget the night. i was blind and could not walk due to infectious feet and recent surgeries. When it really hit me just how simple and awesome the Gospel really is, I wanted to laugh and cry and jump and dance all at the same time! I met HIM and heard HIS voice and I have never turned back to the days of legalism and false prophets, and "smorgasbord" proof text bible doctrine again. Do I hate or bash Adventists? No, I pray for them urgently, with tears, every day. I pray that the deception will be exposed, the veil removed from their eyes and hearts, and that they will turn from the "mere shadows" and face the Son. That they will fall at His cross, then never turn around and face the direction of the old again. i still read the Bible through, several times a year. I have read 15 versions, most several times, and they all have the same gospel. It was only after the Word had revealed the true gospel that I began to read the works of other strong Christian writers. The reformers and some of the giants of contemporary writing. It is always awesome to read their work and find that it contains the same "truth" I was shown in the Bible. I have only recently discovered the plagarism and deception that are rife in the White material. I really thank God that I didn't learn of it at the beginning of my search. It may have tainted the process, terribly. No my friend, following Jesus is not about feelings or being nice on the religious playground. It's all about HIM. His truth, and the rock solid faith revealed to HIS church through the New Testament. I supposed I've said enough. If you were lead back into the organiation, I am surprised. I can not imagine the Holy Spirit leading us to something that is based in decepton. But I can not speak for Him. I can not imagine "returning" to the L.D.S. or the J.W.'s, and frankly I consider them more honest than the SDA's. They stand for what they believe and make no effort to "appear" evangelical, to others. My prayers will be with you, my brother. For you too, I pray that the deception will be made plain and that the veil will be removed. And yes, friend, there are tears in my eyes as I write. The human soul is a terrible thing to waste. In Him! <>< Thomas |
