| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 337 Registered: 10-2002  |
Okay, this question might be a bit "touchy", but it's an honest and mature question, and I don't meant to offend or push the envelope. But I am going to speak honestly and I pray it's okay to do so... (If this should be in the "theology" section, please feel free to move it). Theologically I have no questions about circumcision... it's hard to read the book of Galatians and think that there is anything to debate about whether it's "right" or "wrong". My question is in a different department. I've heard medical arguments (from laypersons, not doctors) that say it's not necessary, and then I've heard the common conception (especially in America) that it's healthy & ought to be done... citing risk of infections, etc. I was circumcised likely at birth and from Adventists I heard only the argument that it was the right thing to do because it was healthy---or rather it was unhealthy if I wasn't circumcised. You know how Adventism looked at parts of the Law and said they were "health laws"... I believe circumcision was something seen as a "health law". But of course it's never presented that way in Scripture, and certainly the book of Galatians invalidates that idea completely. So now here's the problem: My wife and I would like to have children someday, and of course we pray that we'll have both a boy and a girl. Now, should my future son be circumcised? On one hand, theologically I shout "By no means!" I don't want him to have to go through that strange confusion of the "why". It's kind of a symbol of Adventist confusion about the Law to me. Were he not circumcised, I would be proud to have him "free" of any symbols of the old bondage, you know? Yet he would look different from me. If he asks, "Why, Papa?" what can I say? I want him to be the same as me, you know? Also, I simply don't know how living is different if you're uncircumcised---I wouldn't know how to help him know what to do and what not to do. Anyway, if you have any experience with these thoughts & questions, please share! Thanks. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 541 Registered: 7-2004  |
All I can say is that I'm glad we only have girls! I also struggled with the same question and this was when we were SDA's, but am relieved we didn't have to decide. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2006  |
When my son was born we chose to have him circumcised only because of health or cleanliness issues. But I did know SDAs at the time who were doing it for "religious reasons." I have often wondered if the issues in the early church were Sabbath related and not circumcision related, and Paul specifically addressed Sabbath instead, would there be a great movement today that said you needed to accept Christ and be circumcised as a result of faith, but not to be saved? It is easy to see that ALL the arguments used to support Sabbath would also apply to circumcision had Paul not specifically addressed it... (sign/seal of the covenant, put in place before the law...) Tim | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 195 Registered: 6-2006  |
Agapetos, we actually had our little one circumsised because my husband is. The issue of whether it was healthy or not, or religious or not, was never really an issue for us. I have to say, it is a lot easier to clean than the uncircumsised babies I've taken care of. The nice thing is, you have the freedom to decide!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Nicole Registered user Username: Nicole Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2006 |
the american academy of pediatrics says there is no strong medical evidence to advocate circumcision for all male infants. it really is purely an ethical, cultural , and religious issue. after the first 3-4 weeks after the circumcision, the penis is well healed and actually very easy to take care of (my experience both with patients and my own three sons). but on the other hand, many are choosing not to have their sons circumcised (more do than don't), and parents simply teach their sons how to clean themselves and then it becomes second nature to them. it truly is your choice. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1478 Registered: 7-2003 |
My ex-husband's father...at an elderly age... had to be 're-circumcised' because of infections created by the extra skin that had grown back over the years. He was not at all excited about that turn of events! I followed tradition and circumcised both of my boys, but I do remember a boy from England, when I was a kid, that was ridiculed severely by the other boys for NOT being circumcised.... The circumcised didn't know why this kid 'looked' different, but kids can be so cruel. Do what works for you and your family. Obviously, many people survive both ways. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 132 Registered: 7-2005  |
I have 3 sons and didn't have any of them circumcised. I just couldn't bear the thought of having my babies' flesh cut at such a young age. I was not an Adventist back then and neither was their dad, my ex-husband. Their dad was circumcised, but the difference didn't seem to cause any problems. I once found a web site (can't remember now what was the URL) that gave many stories of adult men who have lived with many difficulties all their lives becaused of botched circumcisions by careless, inept doctors. That convinced me forever that I will NEVER promote circumcision for any reason at all. Honestwitness | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 311 Registered: 6-2001  |
If I ever have a son, I do not want him circumcised for many of the things that honestwitness said, and I have heard that it takes away "sensation." However, my husband definitely wants to, so we will cross that bridge when we come to it I guess. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2373 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think to whack off the skin of a newborn baby is mean. If he wants to have his foreskin whacked off then let him have it done himself when he turnes adult age. Fortunatelly I had midwives and a pediatrition who were hippies and they would never consider doing such a thing to a new baby. That foreskin is there for a reason. It is there to cover and protect a very vital and important part of a man. Please, don't cut up your baby! | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 158 Registered: 11-2004 |
I would not have my child circumcised unless there was a medical reason to do so. While I do believe medical reasons exist, I believe they are rare. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2375 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear U2bsda, you said it much nicer that I did. | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2005 |
On my OB rotation in college, I spent a few days in the nursery, holding and feeding babies. Lots of fun! Of course then there were the circumcisions they did in the back. While practices may vary from location to location, this place placed the child on a board with indentations where the limbs would go, and then restrain the baby. The child was fussing a little, and went to sleep again. Then, without a local anesthetic, the doctor proceeded to cut off the foreskin. It took a minute to do the procedure, the child woke up screaming, and when it was done, they put some bacitracin ointment on it, wrapped the penis in gauze, and then for a while afterwards, the baby was inconsolable. Later, I asked the doctor why she didn't use any anesthetic. She said it was because you'd have to poke the child for giving a local, and it would add to the trauma, besides, babies don't remember it anyway. I was upset, and asked if she would like to be circumcised that way. She gave me a funny look, and walked away...Hopefully she changed her practice. (probably not.) Anyhow, if you decide to go thru with it, insist that the doctor give your son a local prior to the procedure. Your son probably will be a little happier.... | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 820 Registered: 4-2000  |
Agapetos, The radical circumcision that is practiced today was not the circumcision in the Bible. In no way did the priest have the ability to properly perform a radical removal of the prepuce. The priest simply clipped the end of the foreskin as required by Jewish law as a ceremonial rite. However, this Biblical custom became a problem in Roman times when Jewish boys' foreskins looked alot like the Gentiles (it sometimes grows back some). Since enslavement was involved if one was circumcised, the rabbinical authorities decided to perform more radical circumcisions, by a mohul, to prevent any future adult Jewish male from withholding his Jewish identity. The craze of circumcision started, in America, with Dr. John Harvey Kellogg in the late 19th century to supposedly prevent masturbation. He also used "carbolic acid" on girls whose parents felt they were oversexed. Most baby boys in the world today are not circumcised. If baby boys need to be sexually mutilated, then why not the baby girls as well? Dennis Fischer | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2005 |
Dennis, thank you for sharing this information. I always wondered how God could be so barbaric. I like Him a lot better, now that I know he was only requiring a little snip. And to answer your question, actually young girls are ceremonially mutilated in many of the countries of Africa. Do an Internet search on "female genital mutilation" or "FGM" and you'll find plenty of information about this horrible practice. I tried to do a paper on this topic for a college English class, but halfway through the process, I had to switch to a different topic. FGM was just too horrible to keep in my mind for very long. Honestwitness | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 245 Registered: 4-2005  |
God didn't circumcise Adam. It was a sign of the old covenant. Thus, no Biblical mandate for today. One consideration from one of the posts above is that a little boy may want to look like his daddy, or wonder why he looks different? A mild consideration, but still a consideration. I think it's a given that it tends to promote a higher level of cleanliness. To quote Paul, let each be persuaded in his own mind in such matters. I would include circumcision in this subject basket. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 582 Registered: 1-2003  |
I'm at school but on break while my students have an art teacher. I've had to smile and even laugh a little as I've read the prior posts. Leave it to "certain friends" to bring up the interesting questions. THANKS ! ! ! Don't worry I'm aware it was not ment to be humorous but each of you shared in an interesting and mature manner. Thanks. . . I'd better shut up before I stick both feet in my mouth. It it is nice to discuss something a little different once in awhile. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2376 Registered: 11-2002 |
In a small American city was only three houses of worship. A Catholic church, a Jewish synogoue and a Baptist church. The preist, rabbi and minister were best friends and every week had lunch together to pray and discuss how they could help one another with various community needs and outreaches. So, one day over lunch the priest mentioned that after lunch he was going to the local car dealer to purchase a new car. Right away the minister and the rabbi said that they too needed new cars so the three of them went to the car lot and they all bought new cars. The next week they met for lunch again and the priest said that he wanted to make sure his new car had God's blessings so he bapitized his car by saying the baptisimal prayer while he sprinkled some water over his new car. Not to be outdone, the Baptist then wanted to baptise his car too so he drove his car off the pier. So, the third week the priest and the Baptist minister asked the rabbi if he'd asked God's blessing on his new car. The rabbi responded, "Yes, I drove my car into my garage, got out my hacksaw and sawed off three inches of the tailpipe". | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 821 Registered: 4-2000 |
Why is Michelangelo's famous statue of David, in Florence, not circumcised? If circumcision is really harmless and even beneficial, then why the growing movement of prepuce restoration (uncircumcision) in the last thirty years? Answers to these and other questions can be found at: http://cirp.org/library/restoration/schultheiss/ Dennis Fischer | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 341 Registered: 10-2002 |
Susan, both your posts made me laugh! I think it's good and healthy to be able to talk about this and even laugh about it. Thanks, everyone, for sharing your stories and feelings about it. Dennis, thanks for that insight on the difference between modern and ancient circumcision... I think most of us didn't know that! And it's especially interesting that modern circumcision can be traced back to............ (drumroll)...... Adventism! Irony, irony. Thanks for the link, also, Dennis. I'll have to check that out when I get a little more time. (I'm in a rush today) Jwd, thanks for that insight about Adam! I'd never thought of that, and I'm sure Kellogg (or Ellen) didn't either! When the day comes, we'll see what happens. Hearing about botched circumcisions makes me wonder how well things like that are done here in Japan, which doesn't have a background of circumcising kids, so that may add a little bit into the factors for consideration. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 165 Registered: 4-2006  |
I can't imaging having my future children circumcised, I think God created us with all our skin for a reason, especially in that area. In Denmark I think its only muslims and jews which are continuing this practice. |
